lack of performance when running on petrol..?
Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 14:40
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PradoMad
Hi there
just returned from a trip down to the always awesome
VIC high country and noticed that my 99 Prado was struggling when running on petrol but was fine when running on LPG?!
Any ideas why there would be a difference at all? My gas man asked me to run it on petrol if the going gets tough and switch to gas when cruising.
Anyone experienced similar problems?
JS.
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Reply By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:07
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:07
I found that if you don't use petrol much for actual driving (not just for starting) then you can get microscopic particles of dirt that are too small for the filter to remove that sit in the injector and settle. This causes rough running and poor performance.
I cured an old 80 series by running the petrol
tank down really low and putting in a strong amount (1 bottle) of injector cleaner in it and running it for a couple of minutes to ensure it got to the motor. Then I left it sitting in the injectors for a couple of weeks then gave it a flooging on petrol for a couple of km. This did the trick and was fine when I sold it 12 mths later.
Give it a try if it doesn't work then it may be beneficial to have the injectors removed and professionally cleaned and flow tested.
Cheers
Dave
AnswerID:
432160
Follow Up By: PradoMad - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:17
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:17
thanks for that.
maybe it has something to do with the airflow sensor as
well?
JS.
FollowupID:
702977
Reply By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:17
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:17
PradoMad,
Is you LPG injected?
Altitude kills power.
The higher you go the worse it gets. The air is thinner and you need more air to petrol ratio to get the engine to to produce the power you would normally get.
As to the LPG, I suspect if it is an injected system that the LPG computer is working
well, there seems to be a bit more leeway with air mix on LPG.
AnswerID:
432164
Follow Up By: Roughasguts - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:52
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:52
How old is the petrol ? petrol gets stale and loses it's octane very quickly.
FollowupID:
702978
Reply By: CraigB - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:58
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 15:58
How old is the petrol in the
tank?
Old petrol has poor combustion.
Common problem with dual fuel vehicles.
Running on gas 99.9% of the the time because it's so cheap petrol is not used and thus becomes stale.
Not a good idea to have petrol in your
tank that is more than 30-50 days old.
Suggest drain/use petrol and refill with fresh stuff.
Cheers
CraigB
AnswerID:
432167
Reply By: PradoMad - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 16:56
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 16:56
thank you all for your advise; any thought on the AIR FLOW SENSOR might need replacing?
JS
AnswerID:
432172
Follow Up By: CraigB - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 17:45
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 17:45
If the air flow sensor is dicky you will most likely get a non descript warning light come up on the dash. You know the one where it refers in the handbook to take your car into the dealer to be checked. If it is faulty it will normally log a fault code.
Suggest you try replacing the petrol first.
Cheers
CraigB
FollowupID:
702990
Reply By: OREJAP - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 17:29
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 17:29
I had a cruiser on dual fuel & thank God I sold it. But having said that I visited an engineer who told me that a dual fuel vehicle should be tuned to run good on gas NOT both & therefore it must be dynotuned which I did. It never ran better but if I ran out of LPG & switched to petrol the motor would "Ping" under load. As per other bits of advice I would never leave Petrol in vehicle for to long and would replace it often. Good luck.
AnswerID:
432175
Follow Up By: ross - Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:34
Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:34
Newer vehicles with computers should be able to be tuned to run properly on both fuels.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: dazren - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 19:04
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 19:04
Gidday Pradomad, Just a thought, I had in the past two VS Commodores on duelfuel, in my line of work I do between 60 - 80000 klms per year, so the cars used to run all the time on LPG, except I would start the day doing approx 10 klms on petrol and finish the day the same way, one car did 340000 k trouble free and the other car did 440000 trouble free, except for a new transmission, and both were running
well when i sold them.
anyway i am not answering your question, so i will get to it ok. Because 99% of my running was on LPG when i did need to switch to petrol after a long period, my car would lack power, and run a little rough, and all my garage mechanic would do is remove a fuse [ sorry i don't know which one !! ] and then he would just replace the same fuse after a minute or so, and this would reset the computor, and presto the car would run equaly
well on lpg or petrol. so maybe you can ask your mechanic to try this first, it may solve the problem, if not, no harm done eh !
Goog Luck and happy travels Rgs dazren.
AnswerID:
432179
Follow Up By: StormyKnight - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 20:56
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 20:56
Yep sounds like the computer needs time to learn about the different fuels...
From memory with the Prado's at least if running on premium ULP & then running on standard ULP the computer would work that out pretty quickly as the engine would start to ping! However going from normal to Premium would take the best part of 5000km to have any effect in terms of fuel economy anyway.
Source:
http://www.lcool.org/technical/prado_high_octane_fuel.html
I'm wondering if the switching from gas to petrol is doing much the same thing.
Two things come to mind to try. Turn the car off & on after turning back to petrol to see if that helps OR find the fuse that will reset the ECU....
Cheers
FollowupID:
703005
Reply By: Madfisher - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 20:45
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 20:45
When you add petrol next time use 98 as it last longer and has injector cleaner in it.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID:
432184
Reply By: PradOz - Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 23:41
Tuesday, Oct 05, 2010 at 23:41
HI
I have same vehicle/setup.
Couple suggestions.
Clean the air flow sensor. Buy the rght can of cleaner at repco etc and follow instructions.
Check the air box has not blown in any way from a backfire. Run your hands around the air box or better still just pull it out and flip it over and check it. I have blown
mine 3 times before i changed brands of my leads and plugs. Easy fix if its blown, run a soldering iron around and melt/fuse/weld it back together.
WHat leads and plugs do you have? Since i have changed all runs better now.
I had problems with a failed air flow sensor prior to going to LPG. All toyota tests showed that there was nothing wrong with it. Professionally changed and cleaned injectors but no difference. Even were suggestions re bad fuel etc too. It took a mechanic to suggest swapping the air flow sensor with one thats known to be good to check if any difference. Bingo - problem fixed. So new one fitted and no worries since.
Mine is regularly tuned by gas specialist but I also notice that it seems to run brilliant on gas even towing and either ok or good on petrol. I have also noticed a difference depending on where i have bought the petrol from as after its gone and refilled any minor issues have gone. i had more of a problem with leaking petrol from under dis-used filler pipe, but luckily i have now solved that one. good luck with it....
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Kimba10 - Wednesday, Oct 06, 2010 at 09:43
Wednesday, Oct 06, 2010 at 09:43
Has it got an equalizer tube in it ?? I imagine it would have if running a
snorkel. They are fine with out a
snorkel but as soon as a
snorkel is installed unless its equalized it will run like a pig. If you run on LPG all the time the injectors will slowly glag up due to lack of use and leaving a residue on them. The LPG on the 3.4 95 series is a venturie system which I found in
mine lacked power especially when towing or on sand or needing the extra grunt. The equalizer tube comes out of the air box you should be able to see it. Regards Steve M
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: PradOz - Thursday, Oct 07, 2010 at 13:25
Thursday, Oct 07, 2010 at 13:25
Hi Steve
I was wondering if there was a chance i could see a photo of the equalizer tube on your set up? perhaps by email if possible to: v8footy AT hotmail DOT com
Thank you
Mick
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Thursday, Oct 07, 2010 at 19:07
Thursday, Oct 07, 2010 at 19:07
Hi Mick, I no longer have the 90 series petrol (have 90 diesel now). I didnt have
snorkel anyway so I didnt need the equalizer tube, but if you have a
snorkel and running duel fuel an equalizer is a must, as the air mixture is unbalanced to run on gas. It will run fine on petrol but will back fire and carry on if switched to gas. I would imagine yours definately has one or you would have had troubles from day one. My mate has it on his. I will ring him tonight and see if he can takes some pics and email to me then will pass onto you. Regards Steve
FollowupID:
703151
Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 19:01
Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 19:01
Sorry Mick I havent got back to you, been flat knackers,(holidays,cracked head follow up etc) and still havnt got hold of my mate yet. To give you a rough idea wether you have one or not (till I get hold of my mate) there should be like a 1/2 inch hose that runs from the air box to the mixer for the LPG, it would be just a rubber hose nothing special will probably run around the back/top of motor depending on where your mixer is. If you have ABS the mixer (for lpg) will be on the passengers side so obviously the hose will be longer to run over to the airbox on drivers side, if the mixer is on drivers side (no ABS) then the hose will only be short. As soon as I get hold of my mate will still get pics for you. Regards Steve
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: PradOz - Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:07
Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:07
HI Steve - all good, I no longer need the information. I just picked up my "new" 120 series prado grande. Was thinking about changing, didnt think it would happen this quickly, and then just did it when we found this one. Could say we fell in love with it instantly. I was wanting to go diesel this time but SWMBO won again so petrol it is. ANyway I will keep as standard so no gas this time. Still trying to set it up ready to go away in a couple weeks for a few days and then come on xmas. Thanks again for getting back to me, may still be worthwhile posting pics for others if you can be bothered, thanks Mick
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:17
Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 22:17
Just told my wife if my quote comes back at me over the 4k mark to get the head fixed it will receive a can of chemiworld (spelling stuff thats suppose to fix head/leaks) and the money I was going to pay for the head I will get a 120/03/04 GXL preferably late 04 with 5 speed auto. Im not paying over 4 no way. You will be happy with the 120. What year model ?? Regards steve
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Follow Up By: PradOz - Thursday, Oct 21, 2010 at 08:51
Thursday, Oct 21, 2010 at 08:51
its a 2005, first rego sept. Petrol, auto, grande, black - last one was black too and had that 10 years. only 57000kms. plenty of them 4 sale, just depends what your budget is, what preferences are for mileage, colour, petrol or diesel etc. i couldnt get into a D4D for money I had so chose petrol. this one has all bells and whistles being a grande so thats a bit of fun, cheers mick
FollowupID:
704727
Reply By: PradoMad - Thursday, Oct 07, 2010 at 07:24
Thursday, Oct 07, 2010 at 07:24
wow...thanks everyone for the great feedback. Will get to work now. I have this setup now for about 2 years and I am very happy so far. I have just changed the gas specialist and he actually mentioned that the Prado is one of only a very few models that adapt to the dual setup without any problems whatsoever. Thanks again
JS.
AnswerID:
432296
Follow Up By: ross - Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:36
Wednesday, Oct 20, 2010 at 21:36
Do you run it on petrol 25% of the time? If not,the injectors can clog up.
Just had that problem fixed with an injection service for my Commodore.
FollowupID:
704675