Forests NSW has introduced a 60 km/hr speed limit

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 19:31
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Hi Guys,
This was posted on another 4X4 forum and thought it should be posted here as well.

NSW State Forest have advised that ALL State Forests are limited to a maximum of 60 kph Unless signposted with an alternative speed.

Note:Some areas may also be as low as 40 kph, these will be signposted.
below is a copy of a letter that was sent out.

22 September 2010

Dear forest stakeholder

There has been growing concern about the level of motor vehicle accidents occurring.
These involve both Forests NSW vehicles as well as those of contractors, including log trucks.
Accidents are occurring across both Forests NSW and Roads and Traffic Authority managed roads.

There have been a number of investigations carried out on the issue and a suite of recommendations made.
Two factors that appear frequently are that vehicles are having accidents on unsealed gravel roads and speed is a contributor.

As a result Forests NSW has introduced a 60 km/hr speed limit, unless otherwise signposted, on all unsealed gravel roads under provision of clause 13(5) of the Forestry Regulation 2009.

At lower speeds:

• Drivers have more time for decision making.
• Vehicles have much shorter stopping distances.
• Crashes that do occur result in less severe injuries because of the lower impact.



This speed limiting policy will enhance the safety of all road users and formally takes effect on 1 October 2010.
Over the next few months, we will begin installation of signage across State forests to ensure that all road users are aware of the 60km/ph speed limit.

Yours sincerely
Nick Roberts
Chief Executive Officer
Forests NSW


I don't have a problem with this at all.
All users should travel at a speed that is safe. I just don't know how will they police this.
Anyway I just wanted to bring this to every ones attention.
Cheers guys and happy travels.

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Reply By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 21:04

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 21:04
I do have a problem with this. It is government policy without analysis of the problem and taking an easy way out to be seen to be solving the problem. Rather than assess why accidents are ocuuring, and address the causes, it's just too damn easy to lower the speed limit.

I agree, all road users should travel at a safe speed, but that may not necessarily one that is too low.

I'm buggered if I'm happy travelling at 100 km/h on a divided Highway/Freeway in a modern, well maintained car because the limit has been set to ensure the safety of an incompetent driver in an old rusty 120Y on iffy cross plys.

Similarly why should i have to travel at 60 on a well graded dirt road when it is well under what is safe?

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 21:20

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 21:20
You're on fire tonight Jim!! :0) Michael
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Follow Up By: tojofixa - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 21:23

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 21:23
Because it's the Law
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 21:32

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2010 at 21:32
I've got a new fliptop battery Mike, it needs some exercise :-)

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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 07:13

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 07:13
Well mate fire it up, cause I reckon it's gona get a work out now. :)
Jim, I would love nothing better than to be able to go around and SHOOT all the stupid people that make stupid comments. It would solve a lot of problems right at the source of the worlds problems and save a lot of worrying.
But guess what?
I'm not allowed to.
It's against the LAW. So I have to deal with it and put up with stupid people.

Now Jim, I have never driven on Vic State forest roads and if you're tearing around on them at 100mph because you believe you can, I hope I never with idiots tearing round on them thinking because they are a BETTER driver than every body else, well in NSW it's against the law just be mindful of that if ever your in our forests. Maybe Vic forest roads are kept in better condition than in NSW, but some of our main roads through our forests are pretty poor, 1) lack of maintenance, 2) High rain fall 3)Lunatics ripping up the road surface and many more reasons.
I use to race Motocross enduro racing through State forests here in northern NSW many years ago, and loved nothing better than going flat, IN the SAME direction as everybody else.
I agree that most road users do the right thing, and these laws are a blanket solution, but it is the law.

"Similarly why should i have to travel at 60 on a well graded dirt road when it is well under what is safe? "
Why should I be restricted to 110k on a road that it would be SAFE at 160+?
SAFE? What is safe to me, you may very well call dangerous.
Well you go ya hardest Sébastien Loeb.

Because it is the 'LAW'

Now where did I put my gun?


Enjoy your day Jim
;)






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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:22

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:22
Jim

if you are travelling through a state forest.........why the hell WOULD you want to go any faster?

travelling slow means you can enjoy the scenery.......unless you are one of these weekend worriers that have to go as fast as they can and get as dirty as they can?
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:02

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:02
Jim.

So what do YOU suggest should be done to reduce the accidents of forestry workers?
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:16

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:16
hmmm .... no private vehicles mentioned having accidents according to the quote.

"These involve both Forests NSW vehicles as well as those of contractors, including log trucks."


Therefore a suggestion to reduce the accidents of forest workers ....

Is make THEM drive at 60kph .... since everybody else seems to manage just nicely ....
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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:20

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:20
Hi Rob,
This is a very good point.
In all the discussions I've read on this subject only a couple of people have brought this up.
What about those that work as loggers, Truck drivers and surveyors. They are no different to road construction workers, who get a 'Work Zone' speed limited to suit the conditions.
Cheers

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:10

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:10
Some of you seem to have missed my point; lawmakers have a bad habit of making restrictive laws rather than addressing the problem.

A good case in point is the severe restrictions placed on P platers. The real problem is that they are never taught to drive properly in the first place, but that would be too hard to fix.

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:20

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:20
Jim

"
Similarly why should i have to travel at 60 on a well graded dirt road when it is well under what is safe? "

no one seems to have missed your point at all.

answer to your question.............because if some thing were to cross your path ( either wildlife or heaven forbidd a small child on his pee wee 50 motor bike....which are more common in the country areas).....how is your vehicle going to be able to stop quickly on the gravel surface?????


answer....it wont.

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Follow Up By: Rob! - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:21

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:21
Jim,

I understood your point. I just think it's incorrect.

It's easy to say the decisions are wrong, knowing very well that unless you put forward an alternative, you will not (and cannot) be scrutinised for your non-commital opinion.

So I'll ask again.. what do YOU propose?
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:58

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 12:58
Best Off Road posted:
Some of you seem to have missed my point; lawmakers have a bad habit of making restrictive laws rather than addressing the problem.

A good case in point is the severe restrictions placed on P platers. The real problem is that they are never taught to drive properly in the first place, but that would be too hard to fix.

Jim.


And again NSW features prominently in this regard.

In NSW it is actually illegal to teach a learner how to drive at highway speeds.

At some point during their P plate period ... they are just suddenly allowed to go 20kph or more faster ......

....... After having developed a driving mentality over several years restricted to 80kph ... of never needing to slow down for highway corners ...

And lets not even consider whether their "sixth" sense in regards to safe overtaking is of any value.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:04

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:04
OzTroopy

years ago when we all were learning to drive one thing that was taught to us was the skilled art of overtaking on single lane roads.
then someone decided to it was a good idea to put RABBIT FENCES down the middle of the roads.here's where the drama starts with younger drivers.......how can anyone teach them to overtake( and not much skill is required to over take on dual lanes)when these "fences" prevent you from teaching them ????

their 6th sense isnt there on regard to overtaking.
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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:13

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:13
"lawmakers have a bad habit of making restrictive laws rather than addressing the problem."

True, The system is in a never ending circle.
I believe the source of these restrictive laws are the Magistrates.
The laws that we have work rather well, the problem is the offenders claim that they aren't at fault. which causes a precedence, therefore another law must be past to counter that, so why not just make the penalties harher for the laws that we have now. And God forbid I mention the word commonsense.
About P Platers.
Most families have both parents working and life has become to busy to teach their kids how to drive on the road and off. Parents are not willing to take responsibility for the teaching of their kids good road skills. 'I'll pay someone to do that' then blame them when something goes wrong.
I guess we are of a generation that our Fathers kicked our backside, and kicked it hard if we got out of line.
Having said that, I know it's not just the younger generation, it's to do with the ME Generation and they come in at all ages.

Unfortunately, we live in a time now that we have restrictions placed on us at every corner that we turn because people will not do the right thing by themselves..
Forest road speed restrictions are just another.
Cheers


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Follow Up By: Rob! - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:17

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:17
Perhaps this is a good time to point out that while, "from years ago", the number of cars on the roads has increased substanitally the fatality rates have actually fallen partly due to such silly laws.
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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:19

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:19
An S missing out of 'penalties harher'



Harsher.


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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:33

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:33
G'Day Mark

Im referring to the fact that for several of their FORMULATIVE driving years .... Young NSW drivers are not legally able to experience ... even under instruction ... 100kph+ highway speeds and .... the changed circumstances in association with increased speed.


And of course .... In the first week of gaining legality to drive at 100kph ..... When little Johnny ploughs into that big gumtree on the bend up the road from home ......

A bend in the road that he never had to lift his foot off the throttle for before .... at 80kph .....

Some knowledgeable crash scene investigator or coroner will spout the usual "speed was a factor" and the pollies will clamour to lower the limits again .....
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:37

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 13:37
OzTroopy

i'm fully in agreement with you on this one mate....spent 12 years pulling people out of MVA's.

was just saying that the art of overtaking is just about gone these days.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 21:15

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 21:15
Rob,

I thought it was clear as to what I propose, and that is lawmakers need to analyse and then address the root problem rather than applying "quick fixes".

I can't make it much clearer.

If you think that is incorrect, so be it.

Regards,

Jim.





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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 09:41

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 09:41
".... if something were to cross your path....... a small child on his pee wee 50 motor bike...."
So Mark you think everyone should drive at a reduced speed in State Forrests because we may hit kids riding illigal motorbikes? You seem to be backing Jim's statement that the law makers need to address the real problems ;-)
Possibly some education to drive to the conditions coupled with a little policing to clamp down on dangerous behaviour would be an alternative but that's not as easy as putting up some signs.
Cheers Craig................
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 18:22

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 18:22
Craig

whether it is illegal or not to ride in a state forest isnt the issue.the issue is that they DO ride bikes in the state forest and how would you feel if you were to hit one of these kids???
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:07

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:07
If we made a law up to cover every "what if" you wouldn't be driving a car anywhere. Ban Bull bars, why, because pedestians keep walking in front of cars. Forget the real issue is most are drunk or crossing in the wrong place. Governments have got to stop making laws resticting those people doing the right thing & address the real issues by stopping those doing wrong.
Cheers Craig........





Toyota recovery vehicle. (3L Nissan) Tell him he's dreamin :-))
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:19

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:19
Mark,

To apply your "logic" we should all drive at a speed that would not injure or kill anyone.

Hitting a kid on a bike at 60 or even 40 will kill him/her. To avoid this I propose we all travel at 10 km/h. Bring back the horse and buggy I say. But then we would need new laws to ban galloping and this would be a good thing.

No need for speed cameras and radar, the cops would only need to be able to ensure horses trot. 1 point for cantering. 3 points for galloping.

Regards,

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:19

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:19
"Toyota recovery vehicle. (3L Nissan) Tell him he's dreamin :-))"

LOL, Unfortunately Craig,
He happen to be in the right place and the wrong way for me.
It happens I guess, but it will be his last.
Tic Tic Tic Tic.

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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:19

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:19
Craig

he's not dreamin'...............

awake and enjoying it :-))
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:28

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:28
Jim

to apply my logic?

anyway....have seen and attended too many accidents to which people were speeding and NOT driving to the conditions and seen just how it effects lives of others mate.

just because the sign says you can drive to a limit ...it doesnt mean you have to reach it.

just seen the concequences of it all that's all Jim.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:35

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:35
Hairs you've let the side down that's all I can say :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:36

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:36
Craig........can you ever forgive him :-)))))
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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:43

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 at 20:43
Craig,
Long story short.
I WAS to Lazy to Air down.
A minor technicality.
What goes around comes around
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:01

Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:01
Jim,

To suggest a full analysis of the "root" of the problem is hardly a proposal of a solution.

So how do you think this analysis should occur? Hey, lets call on the greatest and most influantial people in Australia at the moment from every section of the community. Lets gather them together in Canberra a for a few days so they can have a forum to analyse the situation. Yep, that will do it.

With such insightful solution, youshould become a politician.

The fact remains, that such analysis was probably carried out and this was its solution. So unless you have something better than "carry out an analysis", then you have no solution at all.

R
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:28

Monday, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:28
I'm a bit late on this one. But the Foresty person said in the letter quoted above...

"There have been a number of investigations carried out on the issue and a suite of recommendations made.
Two factors that appear frequently are that vehicles are having accidents on unsealed gravel roads and speed is a contributor."

It seems a review has bee done, perhaps that would be a starting point for further discussion.

Cheers, The Landy

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Reply By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 06:54

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 06:54
hmmmmm .......

Wonder if the accidents involve those bestest ever in the world 4wds, usually bought govt depts .... but recently made with bodgy axle measurements ... LOL


I'm going to have to take a packed lunch with me when I take a shortcut through the Pillaga now .....


Penpushers ... pffttttttt
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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 07:17

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 07:17
I guess it won't be called a short cut anymore


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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 08:31

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 08:31
So true H & F ... lol

Many of the state forest tracks Ive been on are so wide and straight ...

They're more like shot lines ....


So this blanket rule is typical political procrastination,
That should be filed in the correct spot with all the other nanny state rules ...
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Follow Up By: Capt. Wrongway - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:42

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 09:42
Just wait ... next it will be fixed speed cameras in the bush ... sorry I meant "safety cameras".
Capt.
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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:23

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:23
Hey Capt. how do you know that Parrots nest on that hollow isn't a speed camera now?
Hmmm.
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Reply By: Hairs & Fysh - Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 14:23

Thursday, Oct 14, 2010 at 14:23
Ok,
I appreciate that not all forest roads are winding goat tracks, that some are open wide roads, so 60 K limit on these road is really shouldn't apply.
so do we tackle the problem with speeding in forests, whether that be P platers, casual users, bike riders and even forest workers. If lowering the speed limit was not an option how do we reduce the risk of an accident to other users from speed and dangerous driving?
Education ? Who pays for it and where is it administered?
I don't even want to go the path of having to prove to some clown that I am capable of driving in a forest or having to pay a permit, NP&W style crap.
Increasing the fines and penalties that are already available to authorities?
Comes back to how this will be policed.
I've got nothing except for making the laws that we already have actually be upheld in the courts.
Anyway, whether or not you agree with them, we have to live with them in NSW.


AnswerID: 433000

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