Be careful where you step at Ilkurlka

Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 13:12
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I must admit I've never had a problem with snakes getting in my way however you never know!!!!


Source: PerthNow

TWO of the world's rarest and potentially most venomous land snakes have been sent to Adelaide Zoo for medical research following their discovery at Ilkurlka in Western Australia's Great Victoria Desert.

The two western desert taipans (Oxyuranus temporalis) were found as part of a survey in October by the WA Department of Environment and Conservation (DEC) and the Spinifex People, in partnership with the WA Museum, the Adelaide Zoo, and Museum Victoria.

Worldwide, just five individuals of this type of snake have ever been found. Prior to a biological survey in May 2010 at Ilkurlka only a single individual of the western desert taipan was known to science.

The inland taipan has the most toxic venom worldwide, and the coastal taipan is the third most toxic. The venom toxicity of the western desert taipan is, as yet, unknown but likely to be extremely dangerous.

The adult male and female snakes, measuring more than one metre, are being housed at the Adelaide Zoo to allow the venom of the snakes to be assessed, and determine whether a species-specific antivenom is needed.

DEC regional ecologist Dr Karl Brennan, who led the expedition, said the remote desert regions of Western Australia held an extremely rich diversity of animals and plants but there were critical gaps in knowledge.

“Surveys such as that in the Ilkurlka region are helping to fill these gaps,” Dr Brennan said.

“The fact it was unknown until a short time ago that a large and potentially deadly snake was roaming the Great Victoria Desert demonstrates our need for more information about WA’s desert fauna and flora.”

The survey also recorded 10 species of native mammals, 51 species of reptiles, 68 species of birds, one frog and more than 200 species of plants.

Dr Paul Doughty from the WA Museum said the survey also provided an opportunity to record smaller species, such as geckos and skinks, which make the Great Victoria Desert one of the most diverse places for reptiles in the world.

DNA research by Professor Steve Donellan and Dr Mark Hutchinson of the South Australian Museum confirmed the snakes were the same species as the first individual which was collected 400km to the north near the WA/Northern Territory border.

Museum Victoria reptile geneticist Dr Joanna Sumner said DNA research showed while western desert taipans were known from just two localities, they had the potential to be distributed across much of the western desert.

Peter Twigg of Pila Nguru Aboriginal Corporation, which runs the remote Ilkurlka roadhouse, said the biological survey was important in helping to document and record the extensive ethnozoological knowledge carried by the older generation.

“It is amazing to think that nearly all the recorded individuals of this species have been collected along a 2km stretch of road right outside my front door,” he said.

Adelaide Zoo herpetologist Terry Morley, who participated in the survey and will be caring for the snakes, said both animals had settled in to their new environment well.

“To ensure the snakes don’t bring any diseases into the zoo, they will be in quarantine for 12 months and then will be put on public display,” he said.

“Having these snakes housed at Adelaide Zoo is a critical step in enabling medical researchers to develop a better understanding of how patients should be treated when bitten.”



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Reply By: Member - Michael J (SA) - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 17:10

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 17:10
G'day Alan,

We saw our first snake of the year just a couple of weeks ago hiking on a track through Bundaleer forest, scared the whatsit out of me and the dawg...

I would have expected to see a few on our travels this year, but nary a one.

Must have used up all our sightings last year, perhaps word had got around that I like to P on snakes...lol lol

Cheers
Michael
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Follow Up By: equinox - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 20:13

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 20:13
Hi Michael

I guess it's lucky most desert travelers travel in the Winter, so the sightings are lesser for them.
Yes - have had that feeling racing up my spine before, only usually lasts a second lol..

Snake control comes under my job at work here (read: I delegate). There's been 2 dugites in the last two weeks (Perth's Western Suburbs)
Cheers
Alan



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Reply By: Member - Marc Luther B (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 20:22

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 20:22
Hi Equinox

For some reason I thought the Fierce Snake, found only in the Qld, NT, SA border area was the most venomous snake around, but I stand corrected. I do know that it is the most aggressive snake around, it will actively pursueeven a human being.

We get death adders, king browns and black headed pythons around here, and this time of year is when they are most active, getting ready to hide during the wet, so eating plenty. The pythons are friendly, and always try to give a bit of a hug when you pick them up, I am a mongrel, and chase my sisters in law with them, but I always take them out of camp and let them go. Even snakes have their part in the ecosystem.

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Follow Up By: equinox - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 22:14

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 22:14
I couldn't imagine being hunted down by a snake...it would surely get the heart racing a bit.....

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Follow Up By: Member - Marc Luther B (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:28

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:28
Hi Equinox

I am so thankful that I was correct, I did not know that the Fierce snake was also known as the Inland Taipan, and as such is the most venomous snake in the world.

I will dispute the fact that they are more scared of us than we are of them. I have grabbed king browns on three occasions that were being highly aggressive towards some people here. They (the people) made the mistake of being between a female and its nesting area, the snakes get a bit annoyed then.

Incidentally, it is only pythons that can come up their own body, a brown held by the tail cannot climb it's own body like pythons, so they are relatively easy to handle.

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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:30

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:30
Sorry to disagree Marc as I read your posts regularly and usually find them both interesting and informative. I was at a reptile show recently and the handler showing a Fierce snake said that they were very shy and non aggressive. A quick google confirms that and there have been no fatalities from Fierce snake bites. In fact the majority of bites are to snake handlers studying them. The other taipan up in the cane fields is however very aggressive. I just didn't want the poor old Fierce snake getting a bad rap. Cheers Mike
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:37

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:37
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Fierce-Snake
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Follow Up By: Member - Marc Luther B (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:44

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:44
Hi Mikehzz

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Google needs to go back through the Australian newspaper in the early 50's and late 60's. Yes I am well aware of some of these snake displays, and I have never seen king browns acting quite so timid in the wild.

I could be misinformed of course, and if that is the case, then I need to do some better research. I love all snakes and lizards, and regularly handle them and transfer them to where they are of no danger to people, and I have yet to meet a docile venomous predator. Such is life.

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Follow Up By: j100 - Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:28

Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:28
Marc

Having worked in semi desert country around Eulo and Thargominda I can confirm your comments in regard to the Fierce snake.
In summer time you don't drive with your elbow out of the car/truck window as the snakes will strike at the vehicle as you pass. I thought it was an "old wives tale" at first until the first strike at the truck door
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Reply By: Member - Ed C (QLD) - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 20:51

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 20:51
some errr, "interesting" trivia about Australian snakes >>>

http://www.convictcreations.com/animals/snakes.htm

;-))

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Follow Up By: equinox - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 22:09

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 22:09
some interesting ones in there all right Ed :))



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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 20:51

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 20:51
Hi Alan
Yes the good old Fierce Snake is a lot wider spread than people think. I know that they very plentiful in the lignum country around Birdsville, Innamincka etc and most people think that is there range. One of my friends in Coober Pedy said they are around the Coober Pedy area as well and one Testra Worker was very lucky a few years ago when he was about to drop down into a pit to check the cabling, only to find one down there.

It is just as well that snakes are more scared of us than we of them. If Fiona knew they were at Ilkurlka, she would never have got into the swag there, but at least it was in the cooler weather.

I like the last part of the statement:

“Having these snakes housed at Adelaide Zoo is a critical step in enabling medical researchers to develop a better understanding of how patients should be treated when bitten.”

Anyone that was unlucky enough to find one out there and get bitten will only be coming home in a body bag, as help would be too long to get there, even with the Flying Doctor, providing that the person that was bitten was able to contact them immediately.

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Stephen
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Follow Up By: Member - Ed C (QLD) - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 21:12

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 21:12
Stephen,

The Western Desert Taipan (aka Central Ranges Taipan) and the Inland Taipan (aka Fierce Snake) are two separate, though obviously closely related species....

;-))

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Follow Up By: equinox - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 22:12

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 22:12
Hi Stephen,

Perhaps we should add some "anitvenom" to our emergency kits!!!!

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Alan


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Follow Up By: Mick O - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 22:31

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 22:31
It'd never work Al. It's temperature sensative, degrades over time and with heat and you have to be spot on with your identification or you may do more harm than good. Application into the patient is also incredibly time sensative. My cousin got bitten by a juvenile brown at Echuca a couple of years back while whippersnipping his property. Didn't realise he'd ben bitten until he keeled over 3 hours later. Too late for antivenom so he had to ride it out with thinners and anti clotting agents etc etc. A very lucky boy was our Noel.

Besides you haven't got a fridge anyway....or have you? ;-)

Cheers Pal.

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Follow Up By: Member - Marc Luther B (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:18

Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 at 23:18
Hi Ed

Thankyou for that information. I did not know the Fierce Snake was also known as the Inland Taipan. I do know that there have only been 3 known bites fron the Fierce Snake, and no survivors.

I also did not know that they were found in other locations, thankyou. They say a good day is when you learn something new, and I have learned two new things today, so it is a great day for me.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 08:01

Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 08:01
Hi Marc
Re the 3 bites and no survivors, I know of only one person to survive and it was a South Australian from the Riverland named Joe Bredl who had a reptile park at Renmark. By all accounts he should have died and he defied all and survived.

Like he said at the time it was his own fault in the way that he was handling the snake. If the records show there have been no one to live, then they must have overlooked Joe.

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Follow Up By: Member - Marc Luther B (WA) - Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 10:04

Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 10:04
Hi Stephen

Fair call. I checked a long time ago using the old microfiche system, which was showing records from the 50's and 60's, which I think I already said previously. These days they rarely file specific incidents of which animal is involved and such information.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 13:09

Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 13:09
Hi Marc
Yes poor old Joe was one very lucky fellow and to be honest at the time the doctors did not give him a very high chance of surviving. He was that sick that his son came down from Queensland to look after the Reptile Park.

I can only speak for down here in SA where we live and the world's second most venomous snake is so common, the good old brown snake. We have a great bike riding trail that was once the old Adelaide - Spalding Railway Line and in now known as the Riesling Trail. They can sense the bikes coming and they can give you quite a fright when that stick on the track is actually moving and a good size snake.

Cheers

Stephen.
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Reply By: get outmore - Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:41

Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 15:41
all this talk of dangerous snakes should be kept in perspective,

even our most dangerous snake the brown (including all species) is not even a blip on any worlds deadliest radar.

the deadliest snakes which eclipse ours are all found over seas such as the russels viper, krait, and mamba

snakes like these kill mnay times more people than every person ever killed by australian snakes every week
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Follow Up By: Member - Marc Luther B (WA) - Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 19:58

Thursday, Nov 11, 2010 at 19:58
Hi Get Outmore

I would have to dispute the fact that teh brown is the most dangerous in Australia. Many many people have survived invenomation by the king brown, with the right treatment quick enough.

The Russells Viper invenomates perhaps one bite in 8, and the mamba, well I will agree that it is a nasty piece of work, but never seen one.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:38

Friday, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:38
King Brown isnt a brown but is more correctly referred to as a mulga snake and iis actually a black snake whose venom is of low toxicity strength

browns are definitly the most dangerous as they have been responsable for the most deaths in Australia = the most dangerous australian snake

as said the other overseas snakes kill many more people every year than have ever been killed in total by australia snakes (currently about 2 -3 a year)

hence thay are far more dangerous

dont confuse potentially dangerous or highly venomous with what acually is the most dangerous and deadly

Im not surte where you get the info a Russells viper found throughout asia and particulary sri lanka envenomates in 1 bite in 8, this may be true but it is also the worlds deadliest snake accounting for more deaths than any other species

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