Brake controller

Hahah thanx Graham, I did google (is that what you call it) and the more I read the more confused I got, but I didnt go to the Tekonsha page so thanx for the directions!

All the best

On a couple of occasions I'ved towed with a wrongly wired vehicle. Crazy braking as the right indicator is used!

They don't all have "pendulum thingies".
The brake controller apportions the amount of voltage required to progressively apply the trailer brakes.
Connecting directly to your stop light switch would just cause lock up.

Thanx Bob, I thought it may be the voltage, and the actuating is one thing I wasnt sure of either

Thanx you Mark, very useful

I am just about to fit one to a 120 series, where did you pick up the passive stop light wire? Thanks.

i was going to do it from the brake pedal brake switch but after spinal surgery and with a stuffed back it was too hard for me to get into that confined space.

So i ran another cable alongside the blue cable from the controller to the rear via the door sills on LHS. I then removed the LHS rear light, found the correct cable and attached the new cable to it with one of those cable connectors you clip on (sorry forgot their correct name)

The cable you want to join into at the rear light is GREEN WITH A YELLOW STRIP on it.

For getting the cables in from rear cabin to rear LHS door sill without having to remove the lining on the rear LHS in the rear cabin, I found it so much easier using a piece of the yellow tongue plastic strip (can also be red etc) from the edge of flooring sheets used in houses. If you dont have that just ask a chippy on a new home building site as they get thrown away when they are excess to their needs. Need a piece about the length from back of car to behind front wheels. That length allows you to run cables for a hot wire etc from the back towbar to the engine space via the chassis rails. A shorter length would do if just doing inside rear section to that LHS back door sill.

If you want any more info on how i ran cables etc to rear just ask. Maybe better if i had your email address as it would be lengthy post. If you are in SW syd you are welcome to come have a look.

I positioned my controller as per this pradopoint thread and since using it have found it to work excellently there. PP LINK: P3 location in Prado OR search on PP for "P3 brake controller - Alternate location for installation" under 120 series electrical dated Nov 4. It has photos of inside P3 position. I didnt put photos of cabling, light etc but have them in case i need to.

cheers mick

Thanks for the lengthy reply, I was interested to find where you spliced in to the stop light cable. I have already run the power cables to the rear for the Anderson plug & electric brakes, so I will look to splice in at the pedal stop light switch.

after doing it i think you will find it so much quicker and easier to simply run another length of cable to rear. certainly will be easier as there was no spare cable to play with at my brake pedal. i am guessing it would take under 15 minutes allowing removing panels, rear light etc and replacing them. definately less stress than lying twisted up under your dash.

If you want to remove light at back, undo 2 bolts and gently pull the light directly backwards away from rear of car in a horizontal line. I used a small screwdriver or similar to gently push it back as well as pulling on the light. then slide new cable down from there into back panel and push along the wheel arch to lhs door sill and then go onto to front. probably need 4 to 6 metres of cable depending on where you are fitting the unit. i like where mine is as its easy to fit, easily removable and you wouldnt know it was ever there when its out. cost me about $7 for a square replacement dummy switch panel cover for the dash from Mr Toyota

separate issue, on your 120 did you replace your windscreen washer units on the bonnet with hilux ones? cheers

If you used the plastic connectors with the two grooves that you squeeze together over the wires I suggest you remove them and solder the connection.

They are called piggybacks and are the most unreliable and dangerous of all connectors.

I would never use them for anything and to control brakes would only use spade connectors or preferably solder them.

Just me being careful and know that what I connect will work ALL the time.


Cheers

"the plastic connectors with the two grooves that you squeeze together over the wires " were originally called "Scotchloks", all others are copies.

I haven't replaced the washer jets as yet, but it is on the 'list', albeit somewhere near the bottom!

I have just finished fitting the Redarc remote head controller, just got to wire it up now.

I am going to fit a Uniden remote mike UHF in the slot above the main glove box, this way if the remote mike packs up, I can just plug in the standard mike & be able to see the display on the main unit for urgent use, or, in an emergency.

You are correct I couldnt remember the original name.
I was reading a 4 x 4 mag last week with an article on wiring and these were described as an ABSOLUTE NONO and as the most unreliable way of connecting two wires together.

I would never, as I said ever use them and to use them on a safety item is asking for trouble. IMHO of course.

Solder them and cover them for absolute reliability.

Have seen that being done with different trailers but a Prodigy is enough for a trailer or a van as the breakaway doesnt need a controller of any sort.

Any van or trailer over 2001kg is required by law to have a breakaway system fitted.
It just pulls the pin and whang On they go.

Spoke to a guy with a 200 series and he said it cost over $2000 to get it all wired up for both types of systems
A Prodigy and a Breaksafe 5000 probably about $600 plus you can fit them yourself.

Are you Talking in general when you say break away system does not need a controller ?

A breakaway system as fitted to caravans with electric brakes does not have a controller in the car or in fact anywhere.

There are two wires run up to the front of the a frame into a box with a plastic pin to seperate them.

A wire is attached and connected to the car PREFERABLY SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN THE TOWBAR.
The unit has a battery in it and is connected to the electric brakes.

When the pin comes out it energises the circuit and jams the brakes on as required by law for a minimum of 15 mins

The battery in the unit is normally charged from Pin2 on your trailer connector
The illustration in this link will explain it all.

http://www.rvelectronics.com.au/files/files/32_Breaksafe_5000_fitting_instructions.pdf

It can have a remote monitor but that only tells you the voltage in the battery in the unit

The instruction under "Charging" is misleading as it say you can connect a small charger to the exterior pins to charge the battery.
This is incorrect as I had a 7amp CTEK connected for 2 days and it did nothing,

When I connected it in "SUPPLY" mode or direct 12 volts, as it says in next sentence it charged it up in less than 12 hours. As it says it has an internal trickle charger that requires 12 volts to make it work.

Hope that explains it all. You may call the unit a controller I suppose but not an adjustable one as with the one in your car. Also it is mounted in the van usually in a cupboard or the boot.

You did see my ORIGINAL message didn't you ? why would you PRESUME that ALL break away kits are the same .....

My break away system DOES have a controller in the vehicle - this controller tells me various things about whats happening ... ie voltage loss or " break away" air pressure not achieved or compressor running on to long it also has a panic button that will apply the brakes on the trailer ONLY for about 4 seconds if your trailer starts to swing whilst driving

so please dont tell me that NO BREAKAWAY system has a controller in the car , as i specified a SENSA BRAKE in my original message - i installed it myself ( about 12 wires in total ) and runs directly from car power... as you said , I HOPE this explains it all ... and a far Superior system that the ones available stock standard in trailers over 2 tonne

http://www.electronicbrakesystems.com/prod/evopage.htm

P.s no affiliation wit this company - only just found out about them when i purchased my boat trailer

This our boat the system is on - if you would like a photo of the control unit/ air tank controller let me know ..... and before you mention it - yes the link i posted does show the US version - but its a nz company that makes these and is sold in Oz

The Sensabrake system is similar in operation to a Prodigy.

However it is a full brake setup and not just a breakaway unit on its own which is what I was talking about

The breakaway sytem that is normally fitted to caravans is something totally different only operates should the car and the trailer become seperated.

I have seen the Sensabrake and it is good but very expensive in comparison to
what is fitted to most vans.
I havent looked at the manual but would presume if the air pressure drops the brakes lock on similar to a truck.

I was talking about a standalone breakaway unit such as this

http://www.rvelectronics.com.au/page.asp?parentid=3&parent2id=8

This unit and others like it do not have a controller.

Does that clarify things

I have now read the manual and see that the Sensabrake system keeps the air pressure up to lock the brakes when disconnected from the tug.

Hopefully it doesnt leak and your trailer is on a hill as it may not be after a few days.

These are good units and are popular on boat trailers in New Zealand where they are made..
A better system is like truck brakes that the air keeps the brakes OFF and if they leak the brakes lock on.

Still ,the breakaway part of it is not run from the controller as far as I can see it just works automatically when disconnecting.
So technically I may still be correct.

Doesnt matter really I was referrring to Caravan brakes as used generally in Australia.

hello Graham , saying " hope it does not leak" can also be directed to ANY brake INCLUDING the one in your car , if its maintained correctly it will not give any problems , neglect it - and your playing with fire.

Unit works with a few servos that sense the pressure you apply to your brake pedal and adjusts the amount of air pressure that it delivers to the hydraulic system ( via pneumatic over hydraulic system ) as your hit the brakes - the compressor automatically comes on to top tank back up , if you have a slow leak - it will just keep toping tank up and will not run out of air until taken from power supply( wired directly to your 12 v battery via a 12 pin plug )


as for parking your trailer on a hill , excuse my ignorance but ANYONE that parks ANY kind of trailer on a hill and does not add chocks behind the wheels is a fool. ANYTHING mechanical is prone to malfunction whether it be hand brake or braking system ( ie if your working under your car do you chock wheels to ensure vehicle does not move even though you have hand brake on and in gear ? )

I understand how it works.

Yes if you park like that I agree but a system that relies on air pressure to hold brakes on. HAve seen some of these with a battery on the A frame presumably to top up when not connected.

Have actually used one once and had to let air out of it so we could shift a boat with a car without the correct controller.

The old brake cable is simple and safer I reckon.

I only work under my car if its on stands or a hoist.

We have got away from the subject a bit as I was talking about stand alone breakaway setupsand while yours has a breakaway it works totally differently but still without a seperate controller which is what I was getting at.

Cheers We agree to differ I guess