is this normal or is this really wierd wiring?
Submitted: Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 16:56
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roberttbruce
in my stero cabinte my solar panel regulators are connected to a copper-bar-like terminal with multiple connect points.
This terminal also has all the other positive wires running from it, stero, amp, lights, fan, etc...
There seems to be only one power wire coming from the front of the vehicle... a big think red whoa of a thing it is...
There doesnt seem to be a charge wire running from where number1 regulator's charge wire connect to the post on the bar terminal...
Number2 regulator connects on a post futher down on the bar and there doesnt seem to be a charge wire running forward from that...
Ive pretty much traced every wire, all the positives run of the bar.... they all go to a device or apparatus except "big-red"...
But "big-red" must be a power wire but how does the panel charge get back to the batteries.... i thought DC only flows one way...
Reply By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 17:29
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 17:29
Perhaps a photo would help.
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Reply By: Notso - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 17:30
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 17:30
Electricity is a bit like
water, it'll run wherever the least pressure is.
So if the demand is greater than the solar is providing it'll give you some from the battery, if the solar is providing more that the demand it'll flow to the battery. Now I don't know whether this is the ideal way to do it, better brains than I will probably tell you that.
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Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 19:27
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 19:27
Actually, electricity runs where the MOST pressure is...... or the LEAST resistance is.
Yeah, a bit like
water.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 19:32
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 19:32
Sorry mate, but if the the battery is on 11.5 volts (Pressure) and the system is at 12.5 volts (pressure) then the electrons will run into the battery.
That is unless my third grade at high school training is wrong.
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Follow Up By: roberttbruce - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 19:55
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 19:55
and before anyone starts wagging thier finger at me about safety...
on the main panel there is a "trip" fuse switch that turns of "big-red" if overloaded and fuse's hither-thither-and-fro...
interestingly the big main battery switch-dial when off turns off everything but charge still comes through...
Im not an electrician but the quality of materials and build is obvious... ill try to take some pics
assuming everything is up to scratch & at the end of the day....
am I better to run a separate charge and load wire where needed or is the existing method ok??
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Follow Up By: Member - Leon A (SA) - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 20:36
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 20:36
There is no such thing as "pressure" in electricity.
As Allan said electricity will take the path of least resistance.
So what ever teacher told you about pressure in electricity needs to go back to school themselves.
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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:22
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:22
HI Leon
how about a simple explanation, what forces that electricity from one point to the other.???
Peter
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Follow Up By: Notso - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:38
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:38
"There is no such thing as "pressure" in electricity.
As Allan said electricity will take the path of least resistance.
So what ever teacher told you about pressure in electricity needs to go back to school themselves.
Cheers,"
Mate, have a bit of common sense, it was an analogy, it is Volts that drives the electrons. Not amps, using an analogy as before, amps is the size of the hose, volts is the pressure.
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Follow Up By: Honky - Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 09:53
Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 09:53
Than why do you need 14.8 volts to charge a battery to 12.8
Honky
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Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:02
Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:02
Because the supply must be higher to "push" electrons into the battery. If the supply was only 12.8v, same as the battery, then no current will flow to the battery.
If you connect two tanks of
water together with a pipe no
water will flow unless one
tank's
water level is higher than the other. OK?
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Follow Up By: Notso - Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 14:00
Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 14:00
So, I think we all agree, that Volts is the pressure and amps is the volume of flow. The higher the voltage potential between the two batteries, then the more amps will flow into the battery battery with the lowest voltage. Good we have that cleared up EH!
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Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 14:54
Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 14:54
Well not quite Notso. Amps is not the "volume of flow" it is the Rate of Flow. Its rather like Knots in boat travel....... how fast you are going. Volume is the quantity that has flowed in a particular time.........amphours or litres. There is a difference and it can be important.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 16:35
Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 16:35
But I assume we do agree that the analogy of Volts being pressure is an accurate one do we not?
We can quibble of amps or amp hours on some other issue!
I'll let my third grade teacher know he was correct when I meet him at St Peters Table.
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Reply By: roberttbruce - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 18:25
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 18:25
thanks for your replies NS and BB..
at the moment pics are too hard however NotSo's answer was the sort i was hoping for....
down in the power cabinet there is some small cylindrical capacitors welded into power line so i figure these are one "one-way" thingies to the battery...
over all, with the wrapped heat-shrink connectors, wire guages, connectors etc on the installer knew what he was doing in regard to his purpose...
atm he seemed to like high-power Rock n' Roller... Everything is biased towards the stero amp.. there is a whopping great inverter plus two twp-post steely-ampy looking 12v power outlet plugs along with a lead that i suspect connected to another inverter as the ends are taped somewhat close together...all with guages & complexly connected dial switch controlling where the power goes and comes from, Main inverter, batt1, 2, solar to crank(my favorite) etc...
i can just picture someone, outbush, lining-in their amp and pedals and bashing out a barnsie along with the stereo cranked up full... pics dont do it justice, one cant see the spaghetti, lol...
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Follow Up By: Member - John R (cQld) - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:08
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:08
Maybe the "one-way thingies" are diodes, not capacitors?
Cheers, John
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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:39
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:39
Hi Robert
A dc current can flow either way in a cable .[It just does not reverse 50
times a second like AC.]
As Notso said it will flow from the point of highest voltage to any connected point that has a lower voltage.
It will also be more in the path with the least resistance.
Resistance is a bit like a small dia.
water pipe & a large dia.
water pipe
You know which will pass the most
water with the same PRESSURE
Peter
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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:50
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:50
Hi Robert
Just a warning ,be carefull around that inverter & It's 240v wiring
It can kill just as easy as your mains power.!!
Do you have 240v power points supplied by that inverter??
Peter
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Follow Up By: roberttbruce - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 22:20
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 22:20
thanks John and Peter,
Yep, diode thingys they are then...lol...
and the inverter's 240 isnt cabled... it's big one,. maybe a 1200, i can't think of the life of me what i would run off it with only 200AHrs of wet-acids... there is space for 2 more batteries tho...
i understand the analagies and im glad i knew enough to smile when i saw one solar regulators charge wire connected to the same terminal post as the stero's whopping great amplifier... in fact, the amplifier is the closest thing to the regulators...lol...
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Reply By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 22:27
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 22:27
Leon,
Referring to "pressure" in regard to electrical matters is quite valid and common. It is an alternative expression for "voltage" or "potential".
Also, saying that "electricity will take the path of least resistance" is an over-simplification. Electricity will take any path it can get..... its just that more of it will flow on the least resistive path than on a more resistive path.
Notso,
Yes mate, if the battery is at 11.5v and the system is at 12.5v then the electrons will run into the battery due to the Potential Difference (1.0v) and the higher that potential difference then the more electricity (current) will flow. That is, it is running where the "MOST" pressure is. I did not say that it was running TO the most pressure.
And...Amps is not the size of the hose. Amps is the rate of flow through the hose. The size of the hose is akin to the size of the electrical cable.
Your reference to the Water/Electricity Analogy website was good but.
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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 23:58
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 23:58
"if the battery is at 11.5v and the system is at 12.5v "
then either you have a bad connection, the wire is too thin, or the wire between them will get very hot.........
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Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 00:58
Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 00:58
Oh gawd Lex, those voltages were taken just before the connection was made.
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Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 01:10
Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 01:10
Pressure in Electricity is called EMF (Electro Motoric Force) and Potential Difference measured in Voltage is a consequence of EMF. EMF and Voltage are often used as synonyms but they are not.
have fun
gmd
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Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 01:33
Tuesday, Nov 30, 2010 at 01:33
gmd, stop complicating an essentially simple matter, this is a touring/
camping forum not a rocket science laboratory! It's no wonder lay people get confused.
Incidentally, to be pedantic, it's Electromotive, not "Motoric".
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Reply By: funnyfarm - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 22:36
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 22:36
One way to look at it is the big red wire is just an extension of the positive battery terminal. There shouldn't be any worries.
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Follow Up By: roberttbruce - Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 23:32
Monday, Nov 29, 2010 at 23:32
yep, very neat, thanks FunnyFarm
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Follow Up By: roberttbruce - Saturday, Dec 11, 2010 at 13:52
Saturday, Dec 11, 2010 at 13:52
heya' funnyfarm,
would i be better to run a wire from the "load" on the regulaor to "big red" and a separate charge wire back to the batteries for the batteries....
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