Pajero for towing

Have a read of this thread on the Vic Pajero 4wd Club forum for some more information:

- and yet another companion shaft.....

Andrew

Another problem with the IRS set up when towing is excessive, uneven tyre wear. The inside of the wheels can wear to bear in 10,000kms or so.

Andrew,
Have you replaced the circlip on your companion shaft? The reason for asking this is because I have only read 2 out of dozens of postings re this problem where they have only replaced the circlip and one of those members said it only stayed in place for 1000km and popped out again.
There is a modified shaft available which has I believe a deeper recess for the stronger and larger circlip.The cost per side for the new shafts, seals and circlip is around the $200 mark each side and about 2 hrs labor to install altho I believe that you could do it yourself, there is step by step instruction available to do it on the Pajero site.
I have a NM model and I am rather concerned about this problem as if you are driving for a considerable time without stopping and the shaft pops out you can lose all the oil from the diff and one member had a $3500 damage bill to rebuild diff.
My bit of insurance to this is,
As I have a reversing camera setup I have installed a camera under the back of vehicle facing the back of diff and if the shaft does pop the oil which is leaked will blow on to the camera lens and I will be alerted to the problem, obviously I will have to switch camera's every 20 mins or so to monitor it but that can easily be performed by SWMBO.I can then stop, push the shaft back into place and proceed to a town slowly and get it replaced

Some would say why not just replace them, true, but the story going around the traps is that some have had the problem with the modified shafts and there is no evidence to suggest that this WILL happen, there are heaps of stories on the Pajero site where they have done 250000km and no problem.
Cannot post a photo but if anyone would like a photo of what you see from camera email me and I will gladly forward same.
Farouk

Sorry, i believe i have the full kit as you mentioned replaced as MMA came to the party (out of warranty) and i paid for labour costs only.Mine popped out on a long drive with a Kimberley Kamper on the back, though the towball weight might have been on the high side without water in my rear tank at the time....still not that high in the scheme of things.

Popped them back in at a nearby mechanics place, topped up the oil and continued on no problems.

I would rather drive without having to monitor the camera every 20 minutes :) I figure a quick stop every 1-2 hours, a quick wander around the vehicle and trailer is my procedure.

I haven't heard of many modern vehicles having this problem, maybe it has been fixed ;)

Andrew

Andrew,
Point taken re the monitoring of camera.
Really have no idea how long it would take to throw the oil out but bearing in mind that the diff only holds 1.6lts It would not be long.
Obviously you did not lose all your oil so the question would be, how long did you drive from the the stop before you pulled up and found the oil dripping of the front of camper.
If it was 2 hours for the want of a figure you would really have no idea if it happened in the first 15 minutes or the last 15 of the period.
The 20 minute's I quoted was only a figure pulled out of the sky but I will certainly have peace of mind occasionally having a glance at camera and with a bit of luck will get it early without all the mess that I read about on the site.
Actually I did read your report very early after buying the vehicle and my immediate thought was "what the hell have I bought here", but after settling down and analyzing the cost of replacing them and the other problem of the chain guide I have already had done it is no real drama.
May even buy kit and carry it as insurance, not a lot of money today!!and I am sure when the time comes to sell the Paj their will be a market at the right price

Just love driving the vehicle so will put up with these concerns.
Farouk

Thanks Farouk,

I'm not sure how long i was travelling however suspect it may have been well over 20 minutes etc, so your system may have picked it up before damage was done....fortunately i may have just been lucky that day. :)

I agree with you, they are good vehicles, fit for my purpose, and just like any vehicle they have their idiosyncrasies that need to be managed. ;)

Andrew

I would have to agree with Bruce, we had the same situation with all the 4X4 on the market we were down to select from Land Cruiser or Patrol we went with the 100 series LC as we got latter model with low KM. I would look at researching both vehicles as you don’t want to be disappointed when you are towing.

Good luck and have a good look around.

Bruce,
The fact that both Cruisers and Patrol's have 3500kg towing capacity is irrelevant, because you are limited to the ATM.
We have a 21'6 Jayco Heritage which tares at 1809 but only has a ATM of 2285 so the Pajero we have is certainly adequate,we still have 250kg towbar limit which is important so all we have to do is stop carting stuff in van we do not need and there is no problem.
The new Pajero's have 3 tonne capacity but you do not get 300kg on the towbar, it is still only 250kg and if you exceed that you drop down to 180KG so it is a pretty useless update and once again the ATM applies first.
Too many people think that as their vehicle has a towing capacity of 2500, 3000 kg etc that they can tow up to that, well they can BUT only if the ATM on the plate of their van states it.
With reference to the Pajero v Landcruiser, Our Pajero is a 3.2DiD and it eats petrol Landcruisers for breakfast, I had a 80 series for 7 years and getting up Willunga Hill was embarrassing 30kph semis flew past us!! the Pajero purred it's way up there at 52kph, have only just bought the vehicle and I am stoked the power it developes is simply amazing.
My son has a 100 series petrol and on a recent trip to the Mid North together I used to lose sight of him on the hills.

Farouk

Further to my previous post hace come across this posting from a Pajero owner which may be of use to somebody.
Farouk


"My NM Pajero is now certified to tow 3000 Kg and unlike the later models that only allow 180Kg ballweight over 2500Kg mine is 250Kg.
It cost $1200 for an engineer report and $550 for a bar to be welded to the towbar to strengthen it.

Other factors, I have airbags in the rear springs and Cooper ATR tyres. Although not taken into consideration by Transport SA, I have Diesel Gas fuel system which increases overall power by 20%+ which the engineer liked."

Bob.

Would dispute your figures as according to NSW RTA its the GTM that matters as per here I asked this question


This was the question

1.I will put a scenario to you and could you tell me what the current law is on it.I have a vehicle that has a manufacturers recommended towing capacity of 2500kg with a ball weight of 225kg. I have a caravan that has a tare of 2000kg. The ATM of this van is 3000kg. The van is loaded up to the 2500kg recommended by the tow vehicles manufacturer. Am I allowed to tow this van.


My answer was that no he couldnt because it is the ATM that governs the max legal towable weight as per here


The tow-vehicle - and the tow-bar - must both have a Towing Rating that exceeds the ATM Rating of the caravan/trailer.
Could you please refer me to a document that supports the correct view

Thank You

The answer was

Graham,

Yes,you can tow the caravan under the following conditions.

1 / You do not exceed the vehicle manufacturers tow capacity of 2500 kg for the vehicle, ( this means that the caravan cannot exceed its GTM, of 2500 kg,even though it has an greater ATM ).

2 / Your vehicle must have a compliant tow bar fitted and it must be correctly rated,the RTA do not have any requirements on "ball weight".

Regards

I disagree but they are the lawmakers arent they

Hi Graham,
Ref Below

1.I will put a scenario to you and could you tell me what the current law is on it.I have a vehicle that has a manufacturers recommended towing capacity of 2500kg with a ball weight of 225kg. I have a caravan that has a tare of 2000kg. The ATM of this van is 3000kg. The van is loaded up to the 2500kg recommended by the tow vehicles manufacturer. Am I allowed to tow this van.

Firstly Graham I do not follow the scenario above,
(a) This would be the first caravan I have heard of that has been given by the manufacturer the opportunity of loading 1000kg in to their caravan, I have been given to understand that they only give 400kg over and above the Tare weight of the van which would then make the ATM 2400kg.
For some unknown reason Jayco only gave me 376kg.
The question asked has been confusing as I believe it has confused the GTM with the ATM .My assertion which I still think is right is that the first figure to comply with is the ATM given to the caravan.
The Landcruiser I had prior to the Pajero had a towing capacity of 3.5 tonne but as the manufacturer of the caravan has given me only 2385kg that takes precedence over the 3.5 tonne of the tow vehicle, the 250kg on the ball relates to the manufacturers specification, this vehicle was upgraded to 3500 but the original towbar was not upgraded to 350kg as well.
I have always been concerned about my tow bar weight which is very close to the 250kg, according to your advice I need not worry about it as the RTA and hopefully the Dept of Transport here in SA are not concerned about towball weights even tho it contravenes the manufacturers limits.
My assumptions could well be wrong but I am not convinced otherwise as yet!!
Farouk

The question was one which someone else asked and I forwarded it.

It was probably hypothetical but was done to illustrate a point.

Some vans such as Kedron and Bushtracker have much higher payload limits.

This is governed more by the group axle weight and tyre capacity.

It has been known for manufacturers to sail pretty close to the wind with axle ratings which differ depending on the type of suspension.

EG Coromal whilst independant is not load sharing so have to be 120% of allowance.
Jayco or Simplicity and others with Load sharing suspension only have to be 100%.

I reasked the question as car manufacturers usually state ATM

I got a very short sharp reply saying " I have answered your question"

Interestingly I read a decision by a Judge in a court case and he also said it was the GTM that mattered But then we all know how much Judges know about the real world dont we.

I can only repeat what I was told. pehaps as the ballweight forms part of the cars load they only count the GTM I must ask QLD RTA and see what they say.

I was always lead to believe that you couldnt exceed the allowable ATM

It would be illegal and unwise to exceed either the cars or the towbars plated allowable weight despite what the RTA says

Do not regard the answer as "MY ADVICE" I am only the messenger

The manufacturers and towbar makers specs should always be adhered to so if you have a van with 300kg onto a 250kg towbar or vehicle it wont be legal as you have exceeded paremeters.

I am also unconviced that the answer was correct but as I said They make the rules.

Peter

You may need to check the GVM for your model choice - the 2810kg I recorded in my notes may be the next model along. The specifications book I have here listing that figure, doesn't nominate dates or models, but the front cover could be a later model.

Regards - Phil

Would be interested to know how a WDH gives you a higher towball rating as technically the ball weight doesnt alter by fitting a WDH.

If you have a 250kg ball weight and fit a WDH it will still be 250kg

The WDH just redistributes a SMALL amount of the weight off the rear axle towards the front.

I asked HR about this and they agreed with that as per here

"Hello Graham,

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the weight distribution hitch. Although we have no factual evidence, the explanation that the pressure/force between the ball and the coupling may be increased but the ball weight is not increased or decreased is the same way I describe the action of the weight distribution system. The weight distribution hitch may be assisting to carry the ball weight but it does not vary it."

This probably would apply to any WDH.


As I said the RTA take on loadings was that the GTM could be up to the 2500kg capacity plus the ball weight allowable on the vehicle or towbar whichever is the lesser


.

Hi Graham - Good question and set me thinking about my response without seeming to be 'having a go'. Basically, the legal weight for the wider type hitch is stamped into my bar @ 250 kg.

Compare the weight sitting on a single bar tongue sitting in the centre of the vehicle (legal weight 135kg) with the weight spread right across the rear of the vehicle with two lumps of steel extending from rear at either side toward the front of the vehicle. I believe that makes the structure far more stable and thus able to handle the extra load by 'distributing it' rather than centralising it.

Being an old postie, I can't back that up with any engineering background, but I put that theory out there for anyone to tackle if they are in the industry and can shed any light on it.

I also just got off my bottom and had another look under the vehicle and the compliance plate is by Mitsubishi and the manufacturer is FRONTLINE and I note now that it states Max towing 2500 kg and tow ball weight 250 kg. I take back my claim for the 2810 kg and reiterate that it is probably the later version - definitely in the promotion brochure from Pajero that I have had around for some time.

Cheers - Phil

The difference being the fact that the two towbars are a different class

EG the single tongue is I think called a class two and the HR type bar is a heavier rated class as you say.

I wasnt having a go either but am always interested in "theories"

You will probably find that the light bar is also attached in similar fashion underneath but is limited by its different construction.

In answer to the OP I would still consider a vehicle with a higher towing capacity as towing right up to the limit wears a vehicle out faster.

We had a 3.0 auto Patrol and towed a van that was 2564kg ATM.
The Patrol spent all day hunting up and down and pulling its heart out.

Upgraded to a 2005TD Cruiser and it does it easy Now have a 2853kg van and it still just purrs along and has done with it on the back for over 50,000k without so much as a puncture.
Cheers