Change to Visitor Followups

Submitted: Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 20:46

ThreadID: 83028 Views:4825 Replies:9 FollowUps:30

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Membership

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Crackles

****Just noticed an unusual change to a long standing feature of the Forum whereby Visitors no longer recieve a copy of followups sent to them as an email instead we now get this response >>>>>>>>
-===================================
A follow-up has been lodged from ********** at 12/12/2010 10:56:55 AM Click here to view the thread online , as a visitor you do not receive a copy of the follow-up and must read the thread online.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEMBER BENEFIT: Forum follow-up text is shown here for ExplorOz Members, consider the benefits and join now.
====================================
*****Cannot for the life of me see how this new change will benifit followups from Visitors to discussions on the Forum nor see how it will increase membership, in fact it may just alienate some people further.
And this just after ThreadID: 82878 where it was said the majority of Forum users were not even members & the site owners were happy with that.
How is this change "meeting our (ExOz) aims to "enthuse, entertain, and inform"?........ "we deliberately tried to keep Membership separate from the Forum so that Forum usage was not restricted in any way. This contridiction from less than a week ago has got me Confused ???
Cheers Craig...............
Long term Visiter & site contributer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"ThreadID: 82878."
ExplorOz - David & Michelle replied:
***** the simple answer is that you don't NEED to be a Member to use the Forum and we are happy with that. We certainly don't expect ALL site users to be Members.......
I was recently made aware that the majority of Members are NON Forum users. They either don't even look at it, but use Treks, Places, Road Conditions, etc or they are perfectly happy to just READ the Forum. If you look as the stats, this is evident anyway - many more people READ the Forum than Post into it and again, there's no problem with that provided we are meeting our aims to "enthuse, entertain, and inform"..............
Also, we deliberately tried to keep Membership separate from the Forum so that Forum usage was not restricted in any way - this helps everyone because the VOLUME of people using the Forum is the key to its success as a communication medium.............
As always, good to see you all discussing the pros/cons - its horses for course and often you have good suggestions that we can consider too.
Cheers all! Michelle"

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Reply By: 3GoBush - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 20:59

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 20:59

Suites me fine it will stop clogging up my in box.

Thanks David and Michelle.

AnswerID: 438708

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:26

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:26

No they still send an email "clogging up your inbox" just it's a generic response that says click here to open instead of displaying the actual followup.
Cheers Craig...........

FollowupID: 710491

Follow Up By: 3GoBush - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:39

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:39

They can take that away to if they like, they will only get deleted without me looking at them anyway.

FollowupID: 710493

Follow Up By: DOEY- Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:51

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:51

typical response. your opinion is the only one that matters anyway i have found.
I hope this follow up finds your inbox safe & well.

I think this is a pointless change, i do not think i would use many features so i do not want to be a financial member but enjoy the forum. if that was taken away from me, i would just use other very useful forums available, and i think many other "visitors" would just do the same.

FollowupID: 710503

Follow Up By: Mick O - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:11

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:11

Doey,

no one is taking the forum away from visitors. What Crackles is in a twist over is the link back to the post in the reply notification being taken out for visitors. This means that you have to go back to the forum page by opeing it in your browser. As I understand the email above, you as a visitor, still get notified of a response to your post and the identity of the respondant (or is that respondee). There is actually a lot more in Michelles reply that Crackles hasn't included but he has left the thread number so you can actually go and read all the exchanges.

Cheers Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 710509

Follow Up By: DOEY- Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:20

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:20

hi Mick
yeah i know crackles wasnt saying the forum was getting taken away from visitors, Perhaps i was misleading there, sorry.
I dont have any quarms with the change, i dont understand why the change, but i guess i dont need to, it wont discourage me to use the forum. its still only a click away on the email.
I agree that members need to get something for their money and more benefits etc is what they pay for. I love the fact the forum is free, i refer to it often. I dont use many of the other features tho so i wouldnt consider becoming a member.

cheers

FollowupID: 710514

Follow Up By: 3GoBush - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 06:52

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 06:52

typical response. your opinion is the only one that matters anyway i have found.
I hope this follow up finds your safe & well.

Yeah that one did but the next one won't, I have taken gmd_pps advise and send them to my blocked senders list.

My comment was not a dig it was a complement, if I want to read what is on the forum I will read the forum not my in box, so jump down off your high horse and pull your head in. cheers.

FollowupID: 710522

Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 15:55

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 15:55

No need to send email to spam folder. I thought I saw an option here somewhere wether you want the emails or not. I also thought you could unwatch a post.

Either that or I'm confusing this with another forum. Most run in a similar way.

FollowupID: 710557

Reply By: Member - Phil 'n Jill (WA) - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:00

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:00

Don't want to seem 'insensitive' to your post, but 'one click and you're oni it' can't be too big an issue for yourself.

Perhaps it is conserving some system infrastructure.

Gotta be a 'method in the madness' if it so construed....

Hope you still continue to visit Cackles - quite a handy site with benefits for many.

Cheers - Phil

AnswerID: 438709

Follow Up By: Member - Phil 'n Jill (WA) - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:02

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:02

Damn ham fisted operator - that should be 'One click and you're on it' O:)))

FollowupID: 710489

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:35

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:35

The one click is fine, I have no problem with that. It's just I will often quickly browse my emails & if there is a reply that requires a followup will ensure I do so but have found when it's just a link to the thread I often don't ever get back to it. On the lcool site they changed to this same system & lost much discussion due to it, in fact organized trips within the group almost stopped overnight due to the change.
Cheers Craig........

FollowupID: 710501

Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:34

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:34

probally just "business" ........ advertisers pay to be seen and re-directing a "non member" back to the forum exposes them to advertising, if they happen to click on a link it then shows up in the stats and advertisers want to see the stats to know that at least someone is looking at the ad otherwise the advertiser would not part with the money that keeps the forum open to "non paying" users of the forum .............
Well that is the way i see it and it is actually what it is all about so if i am just a visitor and dont like that then i will just pay the small membership fee and enjoy the benifits, barely the cost of a nights stay in a park and you will most probally save double that by using the features available to you as a member ....
Cheers and have a nice day while i check my email for replys, that i check on the forum anyway :-)

AnswerID: 438713

Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:30

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:30

Think your'e on the money, Joe n Mel.

Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 710499

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:48

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:48

It's becoming clearer. Just recieved an auto generated message >>>>
The ExplorOz Team has updated your post (Thread ID:83028) with a link to an article on ExplorOz that we think might be relevant. You can see the link in the box titled 'Article Overview' beside your original question.
And guess what......The article is about becoming a member :-))
Don't you think it a touch hypercritical to say last Sunday>>> "we deliberately tried to keep Membership separate from the Forum so that Forum usage was not restricted in any way" then this Sunday go ahead & restrict it? I suppose it's their footy field so they can shift the goal posts while the games under way ;-)
Cheers Craig..................

FollowupID: 710502

Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:13

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:13

Crackles, I think Michelle was saying that membership is not required to contribute to the Forum as it is on some other sites. Michelle???????? Hello????

Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 710510

Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:32

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:32

maybe someone on the "team" is havin a crack at ya .... lol
Is a good point you raise and also what you say about lcool is interesting, but.....maybe the "stats" are showing hits to be down a bit and the "admin" team are testing various way of getting things up, we dont know these things and i would be almost certain D&M would looking at what we are saying here with interest, after all as you say it is there field and the posts probally need moving a bit ......... it's when it gets shuffled around a bit in the "layout" so us readers accidently click on the ad as it is neatly placed bettween things we need, that sux but that brings up stats, fact of life ........ and to survive thats probally what we will see in the future, nutin for free these days ......
(plus "D" probally wants to stay for a few more weeks and aint allowed to as the stats are down hahaha lol)

FollowupID: 710515

Reply By: jdwynn (Adelaide) - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:51

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:51

Craig, there wouldn’t be too many non-members who have contributed knowledge and experience to the forum over the years like you have. So stick with it mate, regardless!! Perhaps EO needs a new category – “Executive Non-Member” or something. Cheers

AnswerID: 438716

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:59

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:59

It's clear contributions over the years other than membership like shop purchases, place photo's & forum assistance count for very little. I would have thought the moving adds that grind the speed down on this site would have been sufficient to cover the information I apparently steal from here occationally.

"EO needs a new category" –Perhaps “Ex-------- Non-Member” (Just kidding ;-)
Cheers Craig..........

FollowupID: 710505

Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:02

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:02

Fair enough. Those if us who pay should expect better service than those who don't, as as already said, one more click and they'll see the message anyway.

Motherhen

Motherhen

Red desert dreaming

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

AnswerID: 438718

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:22

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:22

Very true MH.

all "shareholders" of any company part with their dollars to earn that status. And they get benefits for doing so. Non share holders don't.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

FollowupID: 710495

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:11

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:11

I don't disagree, those that pay should get extra services. I actually reckon they may have shot themselves in the foot & will get less traffic from their Visitors or at least less Followups due to the change. Considering what Michelle wrote last weekend reguarding visitors it has been a 180 degree turnaround.
Cheers Craig............

FollowupID: 710508

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:17

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:17

Hi Craig

I can't imagine many "lurkers" being unduly concerned. On an other forums that i belong to i can elect to receive notification of replies, but i do not get the message in the body of the email hence need to go to that forum to read the reply. It is an added bonus that as a member here i can see what the reply is from just the email notification.

Mh

Motherhen

Red desert dreaming

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

FollowupID: 710512

Reply By: Flynnie - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:10

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:10

It would be similar to how member message works for members.

We have to go back to the site and log on to find what it is.

Flynnie

AnswerID: 438725

Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:36

Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:36

Now is where it's starting to get confusing. I have 14 replies & followups in my inbox with links to all so I now have to either click on each one seperately to open them up so I don't miss one or reread the whole thread each time to respond. Almost enough to make me join up as a member ........ I said almost. To my knowledge hell has frozen over yet :-))
Cheers Craig............

AnswerID: 438728

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 09:43

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 09:43

Gives another reason to spend more time on my swag than on here where it seems that the only thing that matters is stats and adverts , any forum that that charges $$$ by nature becomes elitist and stale with no real discussion allowed.

FollowupID: 710531

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:17

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:17

Umm, there is no charge to use this forum, so i can't understand how it can be considered elitist or stale if members and non-members have the same ability to post.

Discussion is discussion, whether a member or not...and information contained in a thread should be treated with the same respect.

Funny how one wants to spend time on another forum when their system is exactly the same (albeit different backend system powering the forum) and they also require one to return to the website to view any discussion. :)

Crackles, how about some feedback to the EO staff via their email with the information you mentioned. There "may" be something they can look at, with cookies etc to limit the emails to just the one. Never know if you don't ask ;)

Andrew

FollowupID: 710532

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:43

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:43

This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Moderation Complaints Rule

.

Forum Moderation Team

FollowupID: 710534

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14

Struth Axel, last time I looked, Exploroz was a business owned by a couple who’ve had the wherewithal to create something out of nothing. It is also their livelihood and I would say that if you expect to make a living out of membership alone, this site wouldn’t exist. It is a commercial venture that not only employs and supports people, it provides a travel site that’s a damn sight richer than my swag. The two concepts are entirely different and it’s unfair to make a comparison. If you want a personal chat room then My swag is for you. If you want to participate in a richer site like this then you may have to expect that advertising and membership are essential in providing that site. On my swag you don’t have the tools and all the other services that are provided with Exploroz, most of which are free and accessible to “non-members”.

What I find frustrating is that you make a statement about how good another site is and how poor this site is yet you still troll around here. It seems to be endemic that those that do the flaming and the whinging seem to be ex members who’ve got their noses out of joint because they have lost sight of the fact that this is a commercial venture. It’s got rules and standards and conforms to a model developed by the owners. All of these are clearly articulated at the top of the home page and the forum page. You acknowledge the understanding of these rules when you join and yet here you are lambasting them. Mate it’s not a free for all that .org type forums can often degenerate into.

Sorry Crackles, didn’t mean to hijack your thread and I’m not having a dip at your issue but I can’t help but feel that people have to be mindful of the real situation. The simple fact that we are discussing your concerns about a relevant site issue are proof enough for me.

Cheers Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 710536

Follow Up By: Crackles - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:48

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:48

Mick for me this discussion is not about trying to get back something for nothing rather simply leaving a feature in place that encourages Visitors to post a followup. People will always swing between other sites they find suit their needs but I see no point in giving them another reason to look elsewhere.
Cheers Craig.........

FollowupID: 710538

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:50

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:50

No I see the thrust of your post Craig and it’s good that we can discuss it. I’m not usually one to wade into these debates but I do get a bit cheesed that a few individuals consistently take every opportunity to hijack and degenerate the site simply because they can’t abide by the conditions of play.

On your issue, you will still get a notification that someone has replied to your post? I must admit that I usually have a browser page open with the forum up so I tend to use it rather than the link. I’m usually pretty wary of links in emails anyway lol.

Cheers Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 710541

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 13:10

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 13:10

The point being that the "conditions of play" are constantly changed , look at all the members who have left , members with a wealth of knowledge who have left , why ? because the rules for engaging in discourse were/are changed to an extent that there can be no spirited debate ,

FollowupID: 710544

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 14:08

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 14:08

Axel, you’ve done it again.Moderation policy was bought in because the “spirited debate” you speak of was more an issue of people hijacking the forum for their own purposes. “Spirited Debate” as you describe was more a matter of personal attack and flaming. The nature of this forum is different to most others. It’s not designed as a personal chat room for “spirited debate” that in most cases is someone peddling their own adgenda or self agrandising wind from their own arse. It’s in the rules and policies you agreed to. They haven’t changed in at least three years that I know of. It’s intended to be for discussion around the core topics of the site. The fireside chat type area you want where you can wax on about anything is available at any other number of forums. EO is unique in the way it is structured and I would say that you would have very little chance of accessing the level of information you get in this forum, and in the timeframes it returns to you, in any of your .org chat rooms. As for who’s over there, tends to be a lot of people who thought the rules of EO shouldn’t apply to them. Believe your own propaganda long enough and that happens.

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 710552

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 16:37

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 16:37

Beautifully put Mick. I doubt he'll understand it, but beautifully put nonetheless.

Cheers,

Jim.

FollowupID: 710560

Follow Up By: Mick O - Saturday, Dec 18, 2010 at 16:54

Saturday, Dec 18, 2010 at 16:54

Just thought this current thread from Myswag would be of interest. It's a lament that the site is losing it's character and focus because of all the meaningless chit chat. I am in no way denigrating the myswag site but it does give some insight. It's very revealing considering the viewpoints of some as to the alleged failings of this site.

Complaints that forum is losing it's focus & relevance due to excessive chit-chat

Merry Xmas all. Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 711098

Reply By: _gmd_pps - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 00:59

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 00:59

all messages go in my spam folder anyway ...
suits me
have fun
gmd

AnswerID: 438735

Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:47

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:47

gmd,

I don't recieve any email notifications as I have selected not to as per the blurb below :)

Email Notification of Replies/Follow ups -
These are read-only notification emails from ExplorOz letting you know that someone has replied to your thread. Please do not reply directly to this ExplorOz email as it will not reach the intended party. Instead open the thread by clicking the link in the email and reply to the question or comment directly in the forum. You will receive post replies to your email address because the ‘Forum Responses via Email’ has been ticked in your profile and is the default setting. You need to go into your profile and un-tick the checkbox and then press the ‘Update’ button if you want to disable this feature.

Cheers Kev

Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog Send Message

FollowupID: 710535

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:35

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:35

Thanks for that.
Never spend much time for "options" on things like this.. Too many "Options" in my life already .. lol
have fun
gmd

FollowupID: 710540

Reply By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:43

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:43

Well this is how i see it. If you vote you have a say and an opinion on how the country is organised, right.

If you wont pay membership for things you want to join in on you don't have a say how it runs or have any right to bag any full paying members either. There are a couple of non members that get on here and hmm people off with their crap. There are a couple of non members that I will not reply to because they are not worth the effort. So I think its great to involve non members in the forum but they have no right to criticise.

AnswerID: 438759

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 13:14

Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 13:14

Hi Oldgirl. As a member of a few years, and a visitor for a couple before that I think it’s not about whether you’re a member or not and its very important not to draw that distinction. The site has never been like that. Because of the behaviour of a few, we’ve gotten sidetracked from what the main issue of Craig’s post was which was the removal of a feature he sees as a valuable site tool.

I’ve never really seen an “us and them” mentality on this site which I reckon is a bloody good thing. Some of the most knowledgeable people on the site are visitors and in fact the bulk of users are visitors and regardless of financial status, everyone contributes freely and willingly. Yes there are a few tossers about who’ll take any chance but everyone knows who they are and they all eventually fade away to other sites to play their games. We all have our own reasons for being members or not but it is the owners of the site who make the calls. I’ve always found them to be very willing to listen to ideas of members or visitors alike as far as site enhancements go. I’ve had a lot of input into the blog facility for example. It’s one of the reasons I took lifetime membership as I couldn’t possibly host a personal website holding that much info for the cost of membership on Exploroz.

My thoughts. Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile My Blog My Position Send Message

FollowupID: 710546

Back Moderator

Change to Visitor Followups

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Crackles

Reply By: 3GoBush - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 20:59

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:26

Follow Up By: 3GoBush - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:39

Follow Up By: DOEY- Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:51

Follow Up By: Mick O - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:11

Follow Up By: DOEY- Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:20

Follow Up By: 3GoBush - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 06:52

Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 15:55

Reply By: Member - Phil 'n Jill (WA) - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:00

Follow Up By: Member - Phil 'n Jill (WA) - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:02

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:35

Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:34

Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:30

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:48

Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:13

Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:32

Reply By: jdwynn (Adelaide) - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 21:51

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:59

Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:02

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:22

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:11

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:17

Reply By: Flynnie - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:10

Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:36

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 09:43

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:17

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:43

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14

Follow Up By: Crackles - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:48

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:50

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 13:10

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 14:08

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 16:37

Follow Up By: Mick O - Saturday, Dec 18, 2010 at 16:54

Reply By: _gmd_pps - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 00:59

Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:47

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:35

Reply By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:43

Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Dec 13, 2010 at 13:14

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