Why such poor load carrying capacity?
Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 20:22
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Axle
When you look underneath a late model patrol or cruiser, it makes me wonder why can you carry bugger all legally? I remember the days back on the farm in 1967.when a dodge valiant ute ute was legal with 15cwt, and that was big time and rated as the biggest load carrying car type ute in its class....lol. The thing is we used to put a ton on them, and have the back near dragging on the ground, and nothing ever broke, front
wheels used to leave the ground every now then, but still kept in control, If you go back now and have a look under one you think JEEEEEZ!, these Toyos, etc, should handle 3ton in the back of them if it would fit. All the regulations now are pretty pathetic i reckon!.
Merry Xmas All
Cheers Axle.
Reply By: Notso - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 20:30
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 20:30
Yep, beats me how they can actually carry anything and still be legal. Specially if you tow something.
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Reply By: Member - Toyocrusa (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 20:38
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 20:38
G'day Axle. I remember the handbook for my 1972 Range Rover saying the tow limit was 8 ton, provided the trailer was fitted with brakes. I think a modern Discovery is 3.5 tonne now. They built them tough in those days. Have a great festive season. Bob.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Axle - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:15
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:15
Hi Bob,'........I think 8 ton behind one of those old girls would even scare the B,jeezus out of a ratbag like me,,:)))))))))))).
Axle;
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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 22:20
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 22:20
You are correct Toyocrusa I had a 1974 which had the same rating however you missed two important criteria. 1. The centre diff lock had to be activated. 2. The vehicle was only allowed to be driven at 40 K/pH.
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Reply By: Member - Tezza Qld - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:04
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:04
Yep Beats me.
Bought a leaf sprung GU ute new in April 07 , last of the 4.2 s. Has a towing capacity of 2.5 tonne. Same vehicle with a 3 litre four cylinder rated at 3.2 tonne towing capacity. Go figure.
Cheers Teza
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Road Warrior - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:21
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 21:21
Christ - my BA Falcon
sedan with the factory heavy duty tow kit has a max towing capacity of 2.3 - are you sure that's correct?? 2.5T seems awfully low for a body-on frame commercial vehicle.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 22:24
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 22:24
Only a manual is 3.2t an Auto is 2.5t
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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 22:30
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 22:30
Hi Graham, Correct with the towing figures. the manual is 380 nm Torque & the auto 350nM. There have been numerous "Caravanners" out there in
Grey Nomad land who have finally realised that the van they are pulling around is greater than the manufacturers specifications of the towing vehicle.....especially in the case of the auto Pootrol!!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael and Chris (QL - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 22:47
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 22:47
Careful what you say Graham, you don't want to upset anyone like yesterday lol
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:37
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:37
Its marvelous how some get upset when you offer sensible advice.
I cant believe some of the vans I have seen with Tool boxes along both sides of the chassis, boxes on the A frame, Jerry cans and foldup boat trailers and bikes on the back.
By the time you put all that on there is no capacity left for essentials like food and clothes.
Some dont seem to care but wonder why they break springs, run bearings and cant stop when they really need to.
Yes Orejap I was one who had a 3.0l Patrol (Cant write Pootrol I might offend someone) :-)))))))) LOL
Had to buy a Cruiser cos the van was too heavy and thats how I found out about the evils of overloading.
Have a nice Xmas
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Follow Up By: StormyKnight - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 13:19
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 13:19
The load capacity is also determined by the braking ability of the vehicle. A manual can brake better than an auto & as such the manual has the greater limit.
On a steep
hill a manual may require no brake application, whereas an auto probably will, this is when the brakes will be tested to their maximum & is the reason for the lower rating.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 13:37
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 13:37
It is also governed by the axle capacity, the brakes, the tyre ratings and several other things specified by the manufacturer.
Interestingly I believe Pajeros are limited to 2500kg here but 3000kg overseas.
Would be interested to know if vehicles have any differences or is it just political interference that limits this.
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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 14:15
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 14:15
The Pajero & Triton (2009 onwards I am talking about) have a towing capacity of 3 tonne & a ball weight of 180 KG if the towing mass is 2500KG or greater. If the item being towed is less than 2500KB the tow ball weight is 250kg. The manufacturers of vehicles have their "play on words" so to speak & some vehicles with certain towing specifications are a joke IMHO. I chose my vehicle because it suits my needs very nicely. It tows what I want to at the speed limit comfortably. I get infuriated with people who tow vans & travel at
well below the rated speed limit because that's the limit their vehicle can tow their heavy (Probably illegally over loaded van) van. Or they just want to travel at 80 k/pH in a 100 or 110 k/pH zone to get the best fuel economy holding everyone else up & bleeping the truckies off.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 14:31
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 14:31
Some of us go to SEE the scenery and we found by carefully monitoring the UHF we didnt hold up truckies unecessarily.
It is actually better to travel at 80 -85 kph and let them past than travel at 95kph and they cant get past if they are speed limited to 100kph.
This was actually mentioned in the recent thread about living with Truckies on the road.
Was referring to older Paj's as has been mentioned on here before as being so.
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Reply By: Rockape - Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 23:12
Wednesday, Dec 22, 2010 at 23:12
Axle,
I think there is a lot of poetic licence from manufactures when it comes to towing ability. Every year it goes up but those old cruisers have the same chassis as my old girl and if it is a 12ht motor no more torque than the 1HZ, they do have better brakes but that doesn't come into it because the trailer is braked.
Your good old valiant could cruise down the road easily at 100kph with its front legs just touching the ground, try stopping the old girl or changing direction. Have carried 10m + loads of wet sand with boggie drive tippers and the truck would do it with no problems at all, legal no bloody way and all ok till you tried to stop, have even had to shovel part of the load off because the hydraulics couldn't lift the it.
I don't know how they rate tow vehicles but to rate a roadtrain it must be able to take off on an incline of X % can't remember the exact figure.
A manufacturer must state that a certain vehicle complies with the Australian design rule, they only have problems if an accident happens and the vehicle is proven not to comply. You gotta love self regulation.
Have a good one
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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 07:34
Reply By: Member - Paul&Bill M riverton- Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 08:54
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 08:54
1997 discovery specifies that you can tow 4T but there in small print only allowed 150Kg on the towball ridiculous !!
merry xmas all
bill
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Allan W (ACT) - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:38
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:38
The evidence from a number of patrol owners who have suffered torn spring mounts and cracked chassis on their vehicles indicates to me that the loading specifications are not just bureaucratic restrictions, but actual engineering limits.
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Reply By: Honky - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:40
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 09:40
Whatever happened to the law in NSW which stated that "the laden weight of a trailer cannot exceed the unladen weight of the vehicle" and that would include braked trailers?
Honky
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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 15:40
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 15:40
Interesting point that. Your vehicle weighs 2 tonne but you can have 3.2 tonne behind .....that's why some people can only travel at 80 85 K/pH!!! LOL.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 21:17
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 21:17
It is a good point!!, Honkey, Thats where the fifth wheeler set up should be mandatory,when the towerd trailer exceeds the the weight of the tug!
All the fancy set ups in the world won't stop a large van doing something horrible in bad situations.
Cheers Axle
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Reply By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 10:16
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 10:16
The point that seems to be being missed here is that manufacturers are trying to satisfy two opposing and largely mutually exclusive requirements, namely:
1 A nice comfortable quiet
sedan like ride for shopping trolley use 11 months of the year.
2 Large carrying capacity for the big annual trip.
You don't need to be an engineer to work out that you need to compromise somewhere.
As most (numerically) modern 4WD's are used for Number 1 most of the time that's what manufacturers go for. It's what sells.
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Follow Up By: ob - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 14:01
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 14:01
Yep, right on, you want a 4WD with
sedan comfort, handling and power buy something like a 200 series, you want a workhorse buy a 76 series.
I don't know of many trucks (Mack Kenworth) suitable for dropping the kids off at school and shopping basket.
ob
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Follow Up By: ob - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 16:38
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 16:38
Yeah, something like that.....might be a bitch in the
supermarket carpark but should tow the ol' caravan without too much trouble...............lol
ob
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Follow Up By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 18:15
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 18:15
Nahh not for me, Mercedes Benz vehicles are just soooooo ostentatious, I mean what would the neighbours say?
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Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 21:29
Thursday, Dec 23, 2010 at 21:29
hi
here in aus they reckon mobile phones distract drivers
drivers
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