powering up weekender! help!
Submitted: Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 16:31
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antha
hope its ok to ask this here?
Hi, basically I have a small weekender (no mains power available) and I am trying to figure out a way to power a regular 80watt bar fridge "not
camping fridge" for the duration of our stay (upto a week) rather than have it starting and stopping everytime the generator runs out of fuel. I did think about getting a complete solar setup but havent the money at the moment to get too carried away.
So I was thinking about buying a couple of large 12volt batteries "deepcycle?" and joing them parallel (12v) then connecting them to an inverter "not sure of the size say 600watts+?" to get the 240 volts I need to run the fridge, lights etc... and then using my (Honda eu10i) generator to power a (seperate) battery charger to charge the battery bank in the day while the fridge ect is still drawing power from it..
So basically I would like to know:
1. what are your thoughts on this setup?
2. what sort of batteries, type of charger and inverter would you recommend?
Ive heard that CTEK chargers are good to use with a jenny and can charge the batteries fast and efficiently but unsure which model or even the type of batteries i should go for or if charging batteries connected parallel would be an issue for the charger.
I havent got many $ to make a mistake and am a complete novice at this, any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated!!!!
thanks
anth
Reply By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 17:25
Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 17:25
I have have a weekender property in the Mallee & this is how I have it set up. Like you I would love to get a solar panel but cannot afford one at the moment. I actually nearly bought a 240volt fridge but I prefer the portability of the Engel.
Basically I have 2X100AH deep cycle batteries in parallel & a small 800W gennie. Connected to this is a 240V 600W inverter, my 12V Engel fridge, a Jaycar 12 amp smart charger & 240V caravan lighting (compact flouros). The only reason I got the 600w inverter is so I can run a small power drill. Otherwise a 150W inverter would be sufficient for me using the compact flouros.
I start the gennie every 2 days & run it in the afternoon until the batteries are charged. This takes round about 4 to 5 hrs to bring everything up to full charge. Of course if I use the drill then I have to run the the gennie a bit more. I am also expecting a bit more charge time in the summer when the fridge works harder.
I do not disconnect anything from the circuit while the gennie is running.
You will find that the time taken to run the batteries down varies because the loading on the fridge will change due to ambient temps & how often you restock it. Hope this helps.
Cheers
Stu
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 17:45
Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 17:45
I forgot to add that my cheaper square wave 600W inverter would not start & generated an alarm condition when I first put the compact flouros in the van. I chucked out the "elcheapo" compact flouros & bought some better quality Phillips ones & they work fine now. It must be crappy circuitry in the Elcheapo brand flouros that caused them not to start.
You probably would not have this problem with a pure sine wave inverter but I did not have the need for one of these type
inverters.
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Follow Up By: antha - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 00:32
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 00:32
Hi Stu, Thanks for your reply, Yeh i'm thinking doing the same as you setup wise, I've been pricing a few pure sine wave
inverters on ebay and there are a few around the 1000/2000 watt mark for under $200 so thanks for posting your own experiences with the square wave 'modified"
inverters. also having this sort of setup seems good to me because it would be easy to eventually hook in a couple of large solar panels to the existing setup when the piggy bank gets bigger and then have the genny as a backup!
cheers anth
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711649
Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 08:16
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 08:16
A 1000 watt inverter will pull 80 odd Amps at 12 volts from your batteries if you draw full power from it. You will need some heavy cable between the Batteries & inverter for that one & your batteries will draw down real fast.
I believe that an inverter works most efficiently at around 50% load so if you get one at that sort capacity then most of the time it will be running at nowhere near that.
I actually just purchased a 150W inverter which I plan on using most of the time rather than my 600W. Funnily enough I did this not due to the 50% efficiency reason but on the still nights in the Mallee the cooling fan in the 600W unit was really annoying noise wise when it came on! The 150W unit has no fan so I can get back to sitting around the fire in total silence. To think the person I bought the property off just ran the gennie for power every night & here I am complaining about the fan noise.
Cheers
Stu
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711658
Follow Up By: antha - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 16:35
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 16:35
Hi, Stu thanks for all your input and explaining about the
inverters, especially the one I had in mind to buy. for now I'm just going to grab myself a gas fridge and see how my budget goes from there. if I ever plan to get an inverter down the track I'll keep in mind what youve said especially about the fan, I can see how that would knaw at you after a while!
cheers anth
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Reply By: gbc - Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 20:00
Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 20:00
Get yourself an upright (normal sized) kero or a gas fridge - much kinder on your requirements in the long run when you finally have the coin to do some solar - Fridges suck power.
We have a full solar array at the farm backed up with a lister genset and still run a gas fridge.
AnswerID:
439768
Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 23:54
Friday, Dec 24, 2010 at 23:54
yes, worked
well at Ciggy Bay ........
You can have a basic standard 12v battery for some LED lights for lighting and a gas fridge and the battery will last a week ............ batt is @round $150 (N70Z) and cheap LEDs what $50 and all it leaves is the gas and fridge......
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Follow Up By: antha - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 00:40
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 00:40
Hi gbc, Yeh I have been very tempted to go that way too, but my mrs just cannot stand the sound of the genny running at night for the lights etc... even though it's a very quiet Honda eu10i she can still hear the humm, she doesnt mind it as much in the day. But still a good idea about updating the fridge, just wish I had enough coppers to do both the fridge and the batteries!
Hi Joe n Mel, Perhaps theres hope for my small budget yet =D Thanks for all the advice guys, will let you know how things turn out!
cheers anth!
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Follow Up By: gbc - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 12:20
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 12:20
My opinion is that inverting off a couple of car battery's will not run a 240v fridge for long. You'll find that the startup current for the compressor will drop out the invertor unless the genny is running. My guess is you don't want the batteries and the invertor in the kitchen so that involves long power runs (welding cable isn't cheap but it is the best with many fine strands that low voltage loves).
We invert off 3 x 4v electric train batteries (don't know how many a/h, but they weigh about 60 k.g. each) at night, and if we can only just run the t.v. and a couple of lights. Plug in the toaster and it's all over).
I'd strongly suggest finding electricity alternatives where you can find them.
Merry Christmas and good luck with it all - we have done the experiments over a couple of generations hence my second post trying to save you from reinventing a power hungry wheel.
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Follow Up By: antha - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 16:45
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 16:45
Thanks guys, I've taken your advice onboard! I responded a bit more below in John & Vals reply! cheers anth!
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711678
Reply By: Member - John and Val - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 09:18
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 09:18
Anth,
Any electric fridge is pretty energy hungry and there really isn't much effort put into making regular 240V fridges energy efficient. Sure they have energy ratings used for marketing, but with virtually unlimited power available why try too hard? 12V fridges are designed to use much less power because available power is very limited. But they are small and very expensive. In our
camping setup, the fridge uses about 3/4 of all our daily electricity consumption, and we don't stint on lighting. (See our blog
Electricity for Camping for typical consumption figures and maybe some useful ideas.)
The suggestion to use a gas fridge is spot on. This should be much more effective and cheaper to set up. One battery with 12v LED lighting should do the job. No need to buy an inverter
If you already have a generator it would provide some flexibility, but a good 240V charger may cost more than a simple solar panel setup. Suggest try to figure out your electrical energy requirements ( see the blog) and decide how much solar charging you'd need to supply this. Use ebay to get an idea of solar costings, though you might be prefer buying from a better known source.
Another option - if you go gas for the fridge and use LED lighting (and don't use the weekender full time), you could take the battery home to a 240v charger.
HTH
John
Cheers
John
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Follow Up By: antha - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 16:27
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 16:27
Hi John, between yourself and gbc I am convinced I need to get hold of a gas fridge for long term peace of mind, and eliminate this 240v bar fridge from the energy usage equasion as it would be a very uneconomical way of going about things on my budget. also your and Joe n Mel's idea about simple 12v led lighting is also very efficient, it's amazing how little energy those strings of leds "on the link Joe n mel provided" actually use, a string of those would be great in the kitchen!
As for gas fridges I dont really know much about them other than knowing the names of some of the leading brands. Are gas fridges ok to be used inside a weekender? Some of the ones ive seen are always mentioning about use in
well ventilated areas etc... any advice on this?
cheers anth
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 16:57
Saturday, Dec 25, 2010 at 16:57
Hi Anth,
I'm sure you'll be happy with gas for the fridge (and maybe a gas stove too?). It is unwise to run a gas burning appliance in a sealed enclosed space because of a possible buildup of carbon monoxide ( a colourless odourless and deadly gas). In practice, your weekender will not be sealed - the doors and windows won't fit perfectly, there'll be air (gas) leakage in lots of
places. If you are at all concerned, allow for a bit of fixed ventilation near the fridge.
For small gas fridges, suggest have a look at caravan types - most are 3 way (gas, 240V and 12V). Don't be tempted to run them on 12V - this type are seriously hungry on 12V! Gas-only fridges are also available for precisely your situation - try a google.
Lighting - I prefer to use small dichroic halogen lamps ( 5W, 10W, 20W) for lighting because they provide better quality light than LEDs. They do use more power, but that's a small price I'm prepared to pay. For us, lighting consumes less than 1/10 of what the fridge does, though with LEDs that might be only 1/20th.
Cheers
John
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Follow Up By: antha - Monday, Dec 27, 2010 at 00:10
Monday, Dec 27, 2010 at 00:10
Thanks for that John, Yep we'll definitely go for gas for the stove/oven. And the weekender
has good ventilation with a couple of windows in the kitchen, but some additional fixed
ventilation "like you said" would probably be a good way of making sure everythings safe.
I've looked at a couple of gas fridges, the Chescold 3 way fridges look like the best option
so far, they seem to run on gas really
well and get nice and cold and freeze up good, lasting
up to 3 or 4 weeks on a 9 kilo gas bottle.
thanks again for your advice its much appreciated!
cheers anth
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