Lokka
Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 04, 2011 at 21:07
ThreadID:
83436
Views:
5671
Replies:
7
FollowUps:
18
This Thread has been Archived
Member - Robert R1 (SA)
I would like to fit a Lokka to the front of my 2004 3.0l td Hilux and I have spent the last hour reading about them on this
forum. I think I understand that they are locked on except when turning a corner to allow the inside and outside wheels to turn at different speeds and then lock back up again when out of the corner. It also seems that with the hubs locked the steering is a little harder and wants to centre all the time.
When I drive on outback roads I lock my hubs in and most of the time engage 4wd. Will the difference in steering with Lokkas become annoying over time and will it affect tyre wear and fuel economy?
Also there was a comment about having problems on slippery, sloping ground with Lokkas. I had a few problems last year on a muddy slippery track where I was spinning off the road at 20km/h in low 4wd with the tyres almost flat and I was hoping the lokka would help in this situation. I also want to cross the
Simpson desert and I think the Lokka will be perfect for this.
Any comments/advice will be appreciated.
Regards,
Bob
Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2011 at 21:18
Tuesday, Jan 04, 2011 at 21:18
Hi Robert
If the Simpson is dry, you will have no need what so ever for any locked diffs. Most of the dunes never go straight over, with the last minute turn to the left or right. Have your tyre pressure set right and the Simpson dunes are a walk in the park. Those that complain that the Simpson is a hard trip are either very new to four wheel driving or have no idea on how to drive in soft sand.
Like any product that you add to you vehicle, they all have there place but I am sorry not for the Simpson. You may ask have I ever driven the
Simpson Desert,
well not this year. LOL
Cheers
Stephen
AnswerID:
440728
Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 16:27
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 16:27
Stephen - Yes the Simpson is only a few long days playing on sand hills but...
The Lokka is no disadvantage in the sand and I would be willing to beat under
test situations they would prove a benefit.
Lets face it if you have two wheels pulling you up the sand
hill and one of the front wheels raises in to the air, you still have one wheel pulling.....
I can tell you that in my experience, they are in fact an asset :-)
Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
713252
Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 17:07
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 17:07
Hi Tony
The dunes of the Simpson are no big deal and people that get caught out do so for one main reason = too high a tyre pressure.
The next main problem with Simpson dunes is that most of them do not go just straight over, they have sharp turns at the crest. I know one person many moons ago that was doing everything wrong out in the Simpson - his biggest problem tyres pressures too high.
Try as he did to get up one dune he would always seem to bog out near the top. As a last resort, he used his air lockers to get over the dune. With far too much speed and front diff locked up he went sailing up the dune
well past the other spots where he had previously bogged. Still with speed it came time to make a sharp left turn at the top of the dune - yes he could not turn and went front first into the sand
embankment.
In sand and sharp turns with speed they are no good, but in the right terrain, steep rocky, rutted tracks they are great.
Like I have stated countless times here on the
forum, slow as you go and low tyre pressures will get you over the Simpson dunes every time.
Cheers
Stephen
FollowupID:
713265
Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 18:01
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 18:01
Stephen - This leads to 2 issues - Why then say the Lokka is no good for sand?
Obviously this person was not driving as they should or using thier equipment correctly :-)
1st - Consider the Lokka is not an air Lokker and thus do not suffer the same problem with steeering
2nd - Bad driving techniques are not a product problem
PS I breezed over the Simpson with my Lokka's where the vehicles in front of me left spin marks on every dune - I would guess their tyre pressures were too high and also they took the dunes on too quick
Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
713280
Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 18:15
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 18:15
Hi Tony
Yes it all comes down to driving techniques, but to be fair and to answer Bob's question truly, there is no need what so ever to buy a Lokka purely for a Simpson trip. Normal years in the Simpson I run 18 psi front and real and when it is very dry and soft sand I run 14 psi. High range around 10 kpm and I walk over every dune.
Low tyre pressures wins out there every time.
Places like up in the Victorian High country and a very different story and you will have no debate at all.
To quote from my original reply
"Like any product that you add to you vehicle, they all have there place"
Cheers
Stephen
FollowupID:
713285
Reply By: Ruffy-Dan - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2011 at 21:23
Tuesday, Jan 04, 2011 at 21:23
Hey Robert.
To explain lokka operation. They are locked ALL the time but do allow one wheel to turn faster than the other, not slower. Therefore, when cornering the outside wheel is driven faster by the road surface which the lokka operation allows.
In slippery, muddy conditions having the front locked and being driven by the engine will cause the inside wheel to overdrive to match the speed of the outside wheel and cause the vehicle to understeer as the inside wheel arc tries to match the outside. Likewise in sand.
To be honest i find lokka style diff locks mainly beneficial in hilly, rutted and rocky terrain.
Most Dakkar cars will run an auto lokka but their far more advanced
suspension and tyres and diff lock activation are no comparison.
Personally i don't think you'll be happy with it from what you have told us.
Dan
AnswerID:
440729
Follow Up By: Mel59 - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 07:05
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 07:05
Dan is spot on and the best explanation of there working I have read.
I had a locka in the front of a rodeo and with a decent lift it went anywhere particularly steep rutted tracks that worked
suspension over.
i have moved on and run an air locker in my current vehicle, great to be able to turn it on and off as required.
Got caught on a narrow sandy track once where I had to make a U turn. the locka made it a pig to turn, took an hour the under steer made it almost impossible.
Off topic but a lot of people say any type of locker is worthless in sand.
To a degree I concur but when we did the
Madigan Line the locker helped when you were just about beaten cresting dunes. The unlocked vehicles just as they were struggling for momentum all the drive would go to one wheel and that was it. The same situation the locked benefit helped a lot of time as it gave just enough to carry you over. Spending 6 days crossing 1000 dunes in 9 vehicles gives you plenty of time to assess things.
regards Mel
FollowupID:
712628
Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 16:36
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 16:36
Not accurate in my opinion - This from the Lokka Web site
It should be understood that only when there is an external force being applied to a wheel to make it turn faster than the rest of the drive train will LOKKA allow one wheel to differentiate. Slippery surfaces where one wheel would normally break traction in an open diff cause LOKKA to stay locked - even with one or both wheels in the air, LOKKA will remain locked.
I have had no understeer problems - Match vehicle speed to the conditions and no issue
Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
713255
Follow Up By: Ruffy-Dan - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 20:14
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 20:14
Which bit isn't accurate tony?
I wrote "When cornering the outside wheel is driven faster BY THE ROAD SURFACE"
You wrote " When there is an external force being applied to a wheel to make it turn faster"
Same thing by my interpretation.
Next thing, if it is slippery and both wheels are locked when cornering then one wheel MUST lose traction as they are travelling different distances. As soon as one front wheel loses traction you are experiencing understeer!
Dan
FollowupID:
713306
Follow Up By: Mel59 - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 20:22
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 20:22
Hi Tony,
You have made me have a good look at this. I for one will readily admit my error of view and move on a little wiser. But not at the moment.
My understanding of your Lokka site quote is that in sand as there is no external force being applied to one wheel the lokka will not allow differential.
So as i gave the example of the U turn on a narrow deep sandy track, when I tried to turn to the right both front wheels rotated at the same rate with no differential. In the sandy conditions this forced the vehicle to basically plow forward even at full lock as the inside wheel was turning at the same rate as the external. I call that understeer.
Now that I have an air locker by turning it on and off this is avoidable.
In my mentioned case I was stuck on a down slope at a u turn area with no way out except backwards I commited to turn around but only made it half way due to the locka not letting me turn freely.
Unfortunatly a locka can only be disengaged by taking it out of 4wd not an option. I tried varying tyre pressures before 9lb gave ne enough traction to make a 20 point turn in about 1 hour.
Cheers Mel
FollowupID:
713312
Reply By: Member - Robert R1 (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 04, 2011 at 23:16
Tuesday, Jan 04, 2011 at 23:16
Thanks to both of you for your replies. Looks like you saved me quite a few dollars. I very rarely drive on muddy tracks. I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. At one stage I actually got bogged to the side steps and it took me nearly three dirty, wet, cold hours to get out. I was on my own and boy was I pleased when I finally escaped the bog. I thought the Lokkas might give me a bit of an edge in those conditions. Anyway I was wrong. I will just have to be a bit more careful in the future.
I am not really worried about the
Simpson desert because I have driven on sand a fair bit and I wont be doing it on my own plus I have plenty of recovery gear if required. Reading the
forum it seemed like with Lokkas you wouldn't have to hit the dunes as hard as you sometimes have to.
Thanks fellas,
Bob
AnswerID:
440733
Follow Up By: AGNI4x4 - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 03:58
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 03:58
Fitted these to my forerunner and also a mates rodeo years ago for a trip to the Cape ................... there were 5 vehicles on the trip and all I can say is we both walked thru
places that had the other vehicles held up. Personally best money I ever spent. It's like driving a car with a limited slip versus a standard diff when power is applied the manner in which the vehicle reacts is different. Once you learn to drive with them you'll love them.
FollowupID:
712626
Follow Up By: Member - desray (WA - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 06:40
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 06:40
AGNI4x4 posted:
Fitted these to my forerunner and also a mates rodeo years ago for a trip to the Cape ................... there were 5 vehicles on the trip and all I can say is we both walked thru
places that had the other vehicles held up. Personally best money I ever spent. It's like driving a car with a limited slip versus a standard diff when power is applied the manner in which the vehicle reacts is different. Once you learn to drive with them you'll love them.
I would agree with AGNI4x4 100% ,, I had a Toyota Forerunner with a lokka in the front , It made a huge difference to the car. It was very good in sand ,you need to learn to drive with them , point the front wheels were you want to go and accelerate a little to lock and the car goes almost anywhere you want.
FollowupID:
712627
Follow Up By: franklKTM450 - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 11:41
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 11:41
Hi, I had a Lokka fitted to my 95 Triton. First trip I shredded front left CV going up a very steep rocky
hill. Had to come back down with 3 wheels. After that experience, will never use one again. Making a sharp turn was like driving with no power steering and in most cases I over ran the track.. every turn was almost a 3 point turn.
I think the busted CV was a combination of IFS and the Lokka. I did countless trips before hand on much worse terrain and nothing broke.
FollowupID:
712653
Follow Up By: AGNI4x4 - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 13:58
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 13:58
Frank just for your own record I have to say that as long as your on a surface that enables wheel slip you could weld your diff centre solid and it won't break a CV unit. I would say unit was past it's use by date before you fitted the locker.
Cheers
FollowupID:
712666
Reply By: Member - Robert R1 (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 21:32
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 21:32
Thanks again everyone who replied. I appreciate the input. I think I will give it a miss. Maybe one day I will go for the ones that you can turn on and off as required.
... Now, what can I buy with the money I saved ???? :)
Regards,
Bob
AnswerID:
440821
Follow Up By: KennyBWilson - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 22:20
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 22:20
Robert maybe you should what problems the turn on or off as required will give you.
FollowupID:
712714
Follow Up By: KennyBWilson - Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 22:24
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2011 at 22:24
should read "find what problems"
FollowupID:
712716
Follow Up By: Member - Robert R1 (SA) - Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 20:37
Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 20:37
Hello KennyBWilson,
I was looking for a cheap "silver bullet" with the Lokkas just in case I got marooned again but I don't want a whole heap of pain in the arts for modest gain.
Thanks for your input,
Bob
FollowupID:
712808
Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 16:42
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 16:42
Think again - the gain is not modest :-)
They make an average 4x4 perform 2 x better
This is my first set of Lokkas after 30 years of 4 x 4ing.
Wonder why I never got them before, can drive the vehicle so much easier at an obstacle.
Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
713258
Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 16:21
Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 16:21
Robert you will have to try them your self - I have them on my 07 Rodeo and have found them a great benefit.
I do Mud, I do Rocks & Hills and I do the Simpson.
I have had no problems at all, like is stated above.
The car is easy to turn and if driven at the right speed for the condition you are tackling you will have no problems.
They have got me out of tight situations in mud, sand and
rock. If I did not have them I would have had to winch.
In my opinion they are great in the sand, and in the Simpson with the sharp corners at the crests there was no issues. You have to drive at the appropriate speed. When you install the Lokka's you can slow down and take it more easy on the vehicle.
I recommend them as it is money
well spent on a great product.
Cheers Tony
AnswerID:
441262
Follow Up By: Member - Robert R1 (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 at 20:37
Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 at 20:37
Tony,
A good suggestion to try them myself. I occasionally attend my local 4wd club. I will find out who has lokkas and see if they will let me take a
test drive.
Thanks,
Bob
FollowupID:
713725
Reply By: Member - Tanka (NSW) - Monday, Jan 10, 2011 at 18:00
Monday, Jan 10, 2011 at 18:00
Bob,
Just to add from my experience, I have recently sold an MQ patrol ute to which I had a front Lokka fitted. To me there were advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages: could climb just about anything, in a more controlled fashion. Also more controlled descents when wheels in air.
Disadvantages: I broke front CV's and twisted axle splines, on more than one occasion. Sometimes when climbing, the vehicle would want to climb the bank to the left or right, leading to soiled underwear. Understeer in slippery mud, to the extent of going straight ahead when steering at full lock (at low speed).
It is for the disadvantages that I listed, that I will be getting Air Lockers for my new 4x4. All the same disadvantages will be there when the locker is engaged, however I just wished with the Lokka that there was an off switch for it sometimes, as IMO you do not need locked diffs 100% of the time.
Just to clarify, these are my opinions based on my experience in a particular vehicle. I am not bagging any product or others opinion.
AnswerID:
441404
Reply By: TRYITON - Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 at 18:44
Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 at 18:44
Bob,
Have a Lokka fitted to front of an 03 Triton dual cab.
Have run the ute through mud, sand, dunes, rocks etc.
In all cases as per others comments it comes down to knowing your vehicle and how it performs with what you have fitted.
The Lokka is by far the best upgrade I have ever made, knowing and learning how it reacts in various situations and with different surfaces, tyres and traction has been a joy.
Once you understand how it works and adjust your driving style accordingly they are very predictable and consistent, you know what it will do and when.
Have had one or 2 cases of understear due to my over heavy right foot but apart from that would not be without it.
It has performed faultless in all conditions, you learn to drive out of corners rather than into them, decelerating just before the turn allows the lokka to ratchet to avoid understear, light acceleration out and excellent traction but occassional overstear, once familiar you adjust accordingly.
Have had one CV failure but it was due to seals and not the Lokka, as others comments I find I can drive a lot smoother through more difficult terrain than my mates.
Have driven air locker equiped 4x4's and would not get one, again as pointed out the go straight ahead as they do not ratchet or relieve.
Would througherly recommend over any other product apart from a 4 pin detroit. The lokka is 2 pin and not as strong (ref 4wd Action
test reports), but at 1/2 the price and only ever hearing of a handful breaking .... easy choice.
TRYITON
AnswerID:
441605
Follow Up By: Member - Robert R1 (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 at 20:42
Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 at 20:42
Thanks for your comments Tryiton. It is all good information and I understand the subject much better now. As I said to Tony, I think I will try before I buy.
Cheers,
Bob
FollowupID:
713727