electric brake wire pickup

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 20:43
ThreadID: 83474 Views:12842 Replies:2 FollowUps:15
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Fitting an electric brake controller to the 79 series 4.5 V8 c/c.............

Controller instructions say to pick up the live feed at the brake peddle switch

damn difficult to get my fingers let alone my head up at the brake peddle switch .........does it matter where I pick it up as long as it is on the correct circuit?............I cant see why I cant tap into a more accessible place such as the fuse box stop lights on the side kick panel?

Thanks
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 21:55

Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 21:55
You can tap into anywhere in the brake circuit, between the brake switch and the brake lights.
Are good place is in the wiring loom behind the kick panel in the cabin area.

Have a look at the wires that go into your rear lights.
Check the color code of the wire running to both left and righ brake lights.
Choose the wire that is not an earth (return) wire and write down the primary wire colour and the stripe colour. This is the wire you need to join into.
Locate this wire in the loom at a convenient point in the cabin and use a displacement type tap joiner. This joiner clamps over the wire and pierces the insulation to make contact with the bare wire inside.
Confirm you have the correct wire by placing a volt meter on the metal lug of the connector and to earth and operate the brake pedal.
This will show if you have the correct wire and a good connection.
Then close the plastic flap to secure the tap and insulate the connection.
Wire size is not important as it is a sensing circuit only and doesn't carry much current.

If you choose an incorrect wire, careful removal of the "horseshoe" shaped displacement blade will leave the wire undamaged with no need to insulate the fine cuts each side of the outer insulation of the cable.


Bill.


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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 22:05

Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 22:05
Thanks Bill

Makes sense to me..... just needed some encouragement to do it that way

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 22:07

Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 22:07
I would recommend that you solder the joint.

Those clampon things are the worst connectors known to man.

Safety is what you want in brakes Not uncertainty

If Toyota use standard colors in their looms the Stop light wires are

Green /White

This is from a 100 ser wiring diagram one on each side.

I did mine off the brake llight switch Wasnt easy but doable.

You need to meter the wires to make sure you get the one thats off until you push the pedal.


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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 23:26

Thursday, Jan 06, 2011 at 23:26
While picking up the stoplight feed from anywhere is fine for most vehicles, some like the 200 have a relay box between the brake switch and the trailer conection. If you splice in after the relay box, say from the trailer connection, the cruise control and brake lights will not dis-engage when you use the manual over-ride on the electric brake controller.

I don't think this affects the 79 series cruiser (does it have LED brake lights?) but there are more and more vehicles these days with LED brake lights and relay boxes that require you to connect in prior to the relay box.

Cheers

Captain
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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 00:29

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 00:29
"Wire size is not important as it is a sensing circuit only and doesn't carry much current."

It also carries the current to turn on the brake lights when the brakes are manually activated.
Two or three lights on car plus two on trailer amounts to about 100 watts, a bit less than 10Amps.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 09:38

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 09:38
Yeah, The brake switch is a little hard to reach, but from memory I pulled the plug off the back of the switch and it was then free enough to solder the contoller wire to it.
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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 12:51

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 12:51
The plug comes off the back of the switch easy enough...

but there is almost no free cable to pull down.......in fact it is impossible....so back to the kick panel it looks like

thanks
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 13:25

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 13:25
Just lie on your back under the dash and do it on the pedal

Uncomfortable but as long as you dont drop solder on your face wont be to bad.

I just bared a portion of the wire tinned it with some electronic solder I use and do the same to the red and touch them together and apply heat and its done.

Just make sure you have the cold wire.

Far better than those piggy back clamps which break or come undone and drop off.


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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 13:39

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 13:39
I know whgere you are coming from...and I solder often.....I simply cannot get enough slack in the plug wiring to do anything.....

damned if I know how you did it unless I got a shorter than normal loom !
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 14:27

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 14:27
Wasnt easy but i put one arm up one side of the pedal and one up the other and just bared the wire with a box cutter. Couldnt get the plug off so did it in place.

Had to slide in the door on my back and get head under dash

The next day went to the chiropractor and got my back put back in LOL.

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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 18:47

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 18:47
While soldering may be the best solution, it is not always possible.

I have recently installed a Redarc Remote Head Brake Comtroller in my Colorado and with many modern vehicles you just cannot "pull a plug".
The wiring is fairly light and I was not going to remove insulation to solder another wire onto the circuit.

The clamp type connectors may not be all that waterproof but used inside the cabin area of a vehicle are a simple and effective solution.
As I said, the circuit pickup is only a sensing circuit for the brake controller and connection in the way I mentioned will have no impact on vehicle brake operation.
My controller has a separate, fused protected 25 amp feed from the vehicle battery to suppy main power to the controller.

My Camper also has a manual overide backup to the electric brake operation and I think I am well and truly covered safety wise.

Gee there is some doomsdayers advice sometimes.


Cheers,
Bill.



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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 19:22

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 19:22
You are obviously referring to me.

I am not being a doomsdayer at all.

These connectors are famous for coming loose even inside cabins and I was not referring to water problems.

They tend to vibrate and loosen on the wires and that is not what you want in a brake siuation.

Nothing worse than driving behind someone with no brake lights showing.

These were mentioned in a recent magazine article on how to do wire

connections properly and were described in a very bad light,

as only to be used if nothing else was available and only temporarily till it got done properly.

I only ever solder or crimp connections and know they wont come apart.

I even solder the ends that stick thru when using spade connectors.

Maybe Im fussy but havent had any wiring problems either.

Do it once do it right I reckon.

You may of course do it your way.

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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 19:52

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 19:52
Thanks to all of you for your contributions..........for the record

I found that the blade fuse is always live both sides...hence it is before the peddle switch

In the corner of the kick board / firewall there is a white junction box (wrapped in grey foam) that is perfect to tap into for the brake switch activation wire (green white)........plenty of elbow room and plenty of room to gently scrape the insulation and get a good soldered joint......accessed on my knees instead of standing on my head !

As a matter of practise I crimp and then solder all my connections........not knocking the wrap around connectors..they have their place........I just like to take out insurance when I can
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 20:07

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 20:07
Good for you. Pleased it was easy.


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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 20:16

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 20:16
Graham H, you said .... " I just bared a portion of the wire tinned it with some electronic solder I use and do the same to the red and touch them together and apply heat and its done."

It has been long established in the electrical industry that soldering connections is NOT the most reliable method. A properly executed crimp connector is more reliable.

However if you must solder then the proper practice is to make a good mechanical joint first by wrapping one wire around the other before soldering.... simply "touch them together and apply heat" is a very poor way of making a joint....... yes, even if you have not had a failure. (And even if I do it myself sometimes LOL! )

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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 20:37

Friday, Jan 07, 2011 at 20:37
A bit hard to put a crimp connector on a wire you dont want to cut.

In the situation that wire is in it was hard enough to do a solder joint.

So far has lasted 2 1/2 years so must have done it right.

Have had a crimped connection pull out once but never had a soldered one break down.

I used to modify Playstations and had to solder up to 23 tiny wires onto the pins coming off the chips on the board.

So fine had to use a powerful magnifying glass to do it.

Not much chance of a crimp connector there.

I did over 300 of them with no failures.

I do know what you mean but a good tinned wire and a solid mating seems to work when you cant do it perfectly.

Cheers hes got it done so we can stop arguing LOL

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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 09:02

Sunday, Jan 09, 2011 at 09:02
Narva sell wire taps, like the old scotch locks that are perfect for this type of job, they provide direct connection and Narva also sell insulated male blade connectors that fit these gizmo's, they seal the whole thing up, solder is a bit fiddly I find now the eyes are failing.

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