Another Timely Warning Re: Generators.

Submitted: Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 10:55
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Qld Premier Anna Bligh just announced the death of a 23 year old man, apparently he was using a Generator in an enclosed room while sheltering from the Cyclone, what a waste of life.

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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 11:34

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 11:34
I'm sure many people are unaware of the risks from generators operated in enclosed areas. Sure, the supplied instructions warn of the danger but they are often not read. And anyway the operator may not be the owner with the instructions.

More can be done than simply issuing a media warning about the hazard.
The government could require that all such machines display a highly visible permanent warning on the machine that leaves no doubt of the hazard, such as: "OPERATING THIS APPLIANCE INDOORS OR IN A CONFINED SPACE IS LIKELY TO CAUSE DEATH FROM EXHAUST FUMES". No fancy words such as "asphyxiation" or long pussyfooting expressions, just..... "DO THAT AND IT WILL KILL YOU" stuff!

I have a lot of respect for Anna Bligh's management of the floods and cyclone, but would rather see action than hand-wringing.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:31

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:31
Should we then go to the trouble of having it written on all cars "Open Garage Door" before starting your car!
When will the lowest denominator mentality stop. Its a combustion engine it has a exhaust!
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Follow Up By: ob - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:20

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:20
Alan you are kidding are you not, I feel for the poor buggers in Qld, they can't take a trick at the moment but if someone doesn't read the instructions in the handbook what are the chances of reading any safety signs anywhere else. What is Anna Bligh supposed to do go door to door making sure nobody does themselves harm. At some point people have to take some responsibility for there own wellbeing. A tragic accident resulting in the loss of life but as Craig has said it has an internal combustion engine at one end and 240 volts at the other. Either end can kill but so can a whole host of other things we use.

ob
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:29

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:29
You have not had much experience managing industrial safety have you ob?
Clear signs are frequently placed on industrial machines, even for people familiar with them.
And you cannot read and absorb too well either.
Oh also, it's Allan with two ll's.

Craig,.......don't be stupid.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: ob - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 23:36

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 23:36
Hi Alllllan with two ll's,

Allan, firstly having been been employed for the most part of my 63 years in the WA mining industry from positions starting with a lowly mechanic up to and including workshop manager and more recently owning and running my own company performing similar services for companies supplying and servicing large on site equipment I can assure you I am most familiar with the requirements and responsibilities of workplace safety.
Instructional signs are placed on machinery for several reasons. As a clear warning for those that care to read them and as an indication that the responsibility of "duty of care" has been performed are the main ones.
As an example my Honda EU20i has a number of warnings both in the handbook and on the side of the case. Do you know what the first one is?
"DO NOT USE INDOORS DUE TO THE DANGER OF CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING"
Your inference that I can neither read nor absorb I shall treat with the contempt it so richly deserves.
So Allan, with however many "l's" you care to spell it if you have managed to learn anything I hope it is that you can put all the warnings signs, induction courses and training classes in place that you like accidents will still happen and the best any one of us can do is try to minimise their occurrences.

All the best
ob
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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 23:57

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 23:57
Allan with two ll,
I am an adult accountable for my actions.
Like all it is my choice as to how I manage my own safety when at home. As stated by OP signs are no different than a VOC they are a form of protection for the employer to prove that they have implemented there duty of care. It’s a person’s choice to read or implement the advice.
As per my first post where do we stop?

Regards Craig
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 07:48

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 07:48
Thanks Craig and ob.

Seems you can read correctly and apply yourselves when you put your mind to it!

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 09:34

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 09:34
Comon Guys,
Allans point of view was just that, a point of view no less valid than most others and certainly does not warrant the personal attach or the slur on the spelling of his name.

As Australians we can be a lot more generous than that.

Cheers to all concerned, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 09:36

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 09:36
Pardon the spelling but that should have read "attack" not attach.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: ob - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 12:09

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 12:09
You are more than pardoned Bruce, we all make little spelling mistakes now and then.

ob
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:35

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:35
Same if using oven or gas stove for heating in a caravan. IT WILL KILL YOU if no ventilation.

Lots of people in past used cars in garages to commit suicide so it must work.


A little common sense goes a long way.

Shame to see this happen but it may not be the last as saw a family on TV with a Gennie rigged up inside and they were going to use it there.

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Reply By: SDG - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:33

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:33
From what I could understand is that the generators up that way were being sold out real fast. How many of these people had even seen a generator before? New users probably read enough instructions just to get it going, and not bothered to read the warnings because they were busy getting ready for the storm.
But as was said before. It is an internal combustion engine which has an exhaust.

With no experience myself in using these, in this type of situation, is it possible to run a pipe out of the area to vent exhaust?
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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:44

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:44
I wouldnt recomend due to the nature of the gas even a small leak would be fatal. I can not see any reason as why it would need to be in a confined space as most will support a 20mt lead.
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Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:51

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:51
thats only the start of the troubles, when the power is "forcast" to be out for a while people go get gen sets, start em up and after the first day have some "brain wave" that they can rig up an extention cord, plug it into any outlet and the gen set, fire it up, turn on the wall outlet switch and it all feeds back into the whole house and presto you have all lights working at least .......
What do all forget .... to turn off and isolate the mains, it then feeds live power back up the mains from the house to the pole, pole to pole and to wires that are lying on the ground presumably "dead", alone comes the un-suspecting linesman to repair the lines and they are live .....
Yes it has happened and will happen so if you are reading this and have thought of doing it please DONT as it will KILL someone, even turing off the mains at the fuse box is not good enough ........
Cheers
Joe
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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 22:44

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 22:44
. . . or an innocent child steps on a fallen power line.
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Reply By: Wilko - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 15:09

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 15:09
Its a waste of a life but it seems like common sense not to use a motor of any type indoors. I guess he may have overlooked the danger or maybe didnt know but it is a mistake you will only make once.

Maybe it could be taught in schools ( common sense) as it does seem to be dying out.

Cheers Wilko
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 15:30

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 15:30
Along with respect perhaps for those older than you and maybe even each other.



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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:34

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:34
Wilko, it has been said before........... "The trouble with Common Sense is that it is not all that common".

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Rangiephil - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 16:07

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 16:07
Hmmmm, Iwas talking to some linesmen yesterday and they were telling me that they had just had training to be careful around houses with solar panels joined to the grid as it was likely that there would be 240volts on the house side of a break, so the danger is not only with generators.
Regards Philip A
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Follow Up By: landseka - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 17:38

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 17:38
Unless the system has been tampered 99% if not all home solar power systems are disabled when the power goes out.

Still better for them to check in case a Darwinarian HAS tampered with it though.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 10:38

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 10:38
Well Landseka

I have just had mine installed and the sparky who hooked it up went to great pains to show me the switches to turn off BEFORE attempting any electrical work in the house.

There is a separate breaker in the fuse box to turn off, a switch below the inverter to turn off and two breaker switches on the inverter..

Also you should ideally disconnect the feed from the panels to the inverter.

Which he said totally isolates the panels.

He said if this wasnt done your eyes would light up big time as it would still be live right through to the mains.

I fail to see how it would be any different to the post above about plugging a gennie into the house and livening up the wires, it would still go up the outside ones unless isolated.

Im not the sparky but he certifies these installations so hopefully he knows what he is talking about.

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Reply By: StormyKnight - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 19:07

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 19:07
The issue with Solar panels is that while each one only produces 30 odd volts open circuit, they can & often are wired in series. You could end up with over 300V on the wires heading down to the inverter....
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Reply By: Flighty ( W.A ) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 19:51

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 19:51
Sorry all but the topic is about a poor soul of 23 years who died in horrific circumstance, NOT solar power or anything like it.
Purely and simply this person was obviously either unaware of the potential danger he placed himself in, or purely ignorant of that fact and proceeded to use the gen set anyway, either which way the damage has been done.
DAZA has simply placed a reminder for us all to see of the potential dangers involved,
Don,t forget it has been suggested on this site as to the various methods of how to fit a gen set into a "box" to quieten it down and also how do I do it ?.
A lot of replies to these posts state the exhaust issue, but does the fact of exhaust pressure on the motor, or the inside temp of the "box" and the fire risk attached, due to that ?
Remember but one thing heat, fumes and electricity can all kill and DAZA has simply reminded us of that fact.
I am confident that this reminder will stir thought but the fact remains that we should be accountable for our OWN actions without the need for a full on bleep fight as to what the label says we can and cannot do with a purchase after it left the shop!
After all that, QLD people should be congratulated to the fact that after such a huge storm the fatality rate is proof enough that warnings of any type are generally, taken on board and that fact was just proven by Yasi
Regards
Paul

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Follow Up By: Member - Damien L (Cairns) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 21:01

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 21:01
A lot of people up here have received SMS' about different reminders of thing we all should know. 3 Mins ago I received an SMS about the ues of generators inside and to remind us to make sure we have plenty of ventelation for the exaust fumes.

During the cyclone I lost power at 0730hrs on Thursday and it came back on today at 1215hrs. I used my Hond Genny for the fridge and freezer as well as the computer,(not all at once asit is only an E10), It was situated on the back landing with the exaust facing away, the door was closed and the power outlet covered. I only heard 2 other gennies being used around my area in Manunda.

I only lost 2 trees, a palm and some branches. I have lived here in Cairns for 50 years and have been in a few. This (Yasi) was not the worst, Larry was more distructive in Cairns. Clclone joy was the biggest damage causer to hit Cairns in my time.
I am glad no other deaths occured during the hit, even Tully Cardwell and Mission Beach copped the full brunt of it and came out deathless.

Damien.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:40

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 15:40
Damian

One of those generators you heard may have been the one we borrowed last night.

We are over in Mayers St.

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Follow Up By: Member - Damien L (Cairns) - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 20:52

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 20:52
G'day Boo Boo, bit far away I'm in Wilkinson St near Clark
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Reply By: Capt. Wrongway - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 21:22

Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 21:22
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Inappropriate Rule .

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