Bullbars (Article)

There's a classic clip of a woman madly texting as she walked along.................straight into a low wall and flat onto her face into a large fishpond.

The follow-up is that she is apparently sueing the shopping centre for not having warning signs or something. .......................Only in America??.

Disco.

Just been informed by an pommy visitor that the authorities in London are considering placing padding around the bases of lampposts because texting walkers are hurting themselves by banging into the posts. ..............So it's not only in America!!!!

Disco.

What about the ten year old over the weekend that was so engrosed in his game boy that he walk off a railway platform? An off duty cop rescued him just before a train was due.

Not sure what 'decent and hardworking Australians' has to do with it Wilko but the review has everything to do with maintaining and improving vehicle design rules for the safety of all road users, and that can't be a bad thing as long as all the issues are taken on board (don't see any reason why they won't be - this committee hardly has a poor track record in that regard as far as I'm aware). A review of the need for, effectiveness of, and design of BBs is long overdue if these examples are anything to go by. Well-designed and integrated bars appear to offer some vehicle (and passenger?) protection from light animal strike, but clearly some BBs are poorly designed and engineered (overkill so-to-speak) and probably ought to be 'barred'.

The ones shown on the 'wanker' utes in your pix are illegal , have been for some time in WA. They are classified as 4 posters which are only legal on heavy vehicles.

Disco

Hi Disco,

Arent they 5 posters?

Hi Bazooka,

As long as they take into account everyone's concerns, My major concern is that some bullbars allow a roo to roll onto the bonnet then can come thru the window.

A safer design for the driver/passengers is to throw the roo forward.

Unfortunately some bars are sloped backwards and are next to useless. It should be able to survive an animal strike at 110km per hour and not be damaged or damage the car.

Cheers Wilko

Hey Bazooka,
My neighbours grandson has a bull bar on his HZ ute just like the one in your pic there but it is just a little smaller but not much.

Mind you he works on a property in the NT. He is just home due to the heat and the wet and Xmas break. heading back shortly.
Bruce.

Yep...........They are 5 posters and, like the 4 posters, they're still illegal.

If pedestrians kept to the footpaths, watched where they were going and didn't just walk out onto the road when bleep ed (or sober, demanding right of way), we wouldn't have a problem with bullbars.

dISCO.

That first photo looks like it's been photo shopped. Look at the size of the top bars, they're about the same size as the headlights.

Hi Dave,

Nope they would be that size, I agree with Dave Pedestrians should be responsible like drivers are responsible for their safety.

Cheers Wilko

Agree Dave, or its some sort of 'show' car. Imagine the weight/strain on the front of that vehicle.

Wilko
Bar design is obviously complex. If possible you don't want an animal to bounce up onto your bonnet and thru the windscreen as you say, alternatively you don't want them deflected under the vehicle. Have had friends in both circumstances, both colliding with cattle (one in a Landrover, the other a Holden SW). The more dangerous of the two accidents was the animal under the 4WD, which caused rollover and but for a slice of luck would have resulted in fatality (driver slipped into footwell as the rover slid upside-down slicing off the roof at bonnet level. He still doesn't know how that happened).

With tongue very much in cheek, perhaps someone could design a bullbar something like the oldfashioned "Cowcatcher" as seen on the old steamtrains in the old western movies. They would have to be a bit higher though.

These would deflect the animals/pedestrians off to one side to one side or the other, either onto the footpath or under anything coming the other way.

Can you imagine the noise then.

Disco.

Holy Cr.... They are a bit of an overkill :-)

Must be compensating for some thing :-)

These boys will have to learn to drive if they need that much bar :-) Wait a minute, it would take 200m to turn with that hanging off the front.

Cheers Tony

Ive had 3 bullbars on my Work Pajero in 3 years.

1st one was a factory alloy, I collected a roo at appox 95km/h. It bent back so that the bar dented the bonnet and broke the grill. It was rubbish.

2nd one was a smart bar, took the 1st impact at 100km/h ok with a roo but it has weakened it so that if i push hard on it, it bends. Was good for 1 impact.

3rd is a Tuff bar and Ive hit 2 roos and a pig It is a 4 poster and does the job well.

Im happy with the current arrangements cause they save lives. Its not like a try to hit them, but if they jump out in front of you, you can never ever swerve, (easiest way to kill yourself).

If some clown in the city is reading a text and walks out into traffic then its not the motorist fault or the bars. Its the pedestrians.

Cheers Wilko

Know what you mean. I can't drive unless I'm using the phone, eating a burger and having a beer. Damn do-gooders seem to think I'd be better off concentrating on driving. How on earth did I survive without a mobile phone I wonder?

how is using hand free phone any different to using radio gps & all the other things that we do when driving, sarcasm will get you nowhere

'sarcasm will get you nowhere'....got a bite out of you though didn't it.

No doubt you, and the many who have already commented in the media, have a point regarding hands-free phones (despite the apparent evidence that they are at best marginally better from a safety perspective - I'd like to see more than tests as proof of that though because anecdotally they would seem far safer). It's your inane inference that people who raise legitimate issues for public discussion are 'do-gooders' (in the perjorative sense) that gets on my wick.

I doubt that authorities will be banning hands-free car phones any time soon, but getting the issues out in the public arena is not only a good thing, it's the duty of the people responsible for road safety in our community (aren't we all?). And the more controversy the greater the press coverage - if nothing else, if discussion of all the issues regarding cabin distraction filters through to just a few of the 'thick skulls' of the mobile-phone using, make-up applying, GPS-on-the-go-ing brigade, they will have achieved something.

I'm glad that i got on your wick , so you think that a phone or not make a good driver or not , next time your on the road just have a look around at the drivers around you . not all will have a phone in their ear . but i bet you will see some ....... drivers . but i jess that wont be you ? "SARCASM"

...so you think that a phone or not make a good driver or not...

Not the case at all Nick, have another read of what I've written. We've all no doubt seen the effects of people driving while talking on the phone (let alone dialling, texting etc). Their concentration on the road and other motorists is INVARIABLY poor from my experience (yet for some reason talking on the UHF/CB seems not to have the same effect from what I have observed. Interesting that, perhaps it's not the case in reality).

If it's that important you take a call then either get a hands-free (still risky according to the experts ) or better still pull over and let the rest of us travel as safely as practically possible. A few minutes of your time off the road to have a chat isn't too much to ask - especially when the alternative can, and HAS, lead to numerous deaths of an innocent people. Most 'phone drivers' severly underestimate the effect on their driving and concentration - frankly, it's time they woke up.

'A study commissioned by a leading UK insurance company, Direct Line, revealed that talking on any cell phone while driving is so mentally distracting that it is as dangerous as driving when slightly over the legal blood-alcohol limit. (In Britain, the BAC limit is 0.08%, the same as in the U.S.A.)'

Above is but one of many studies which all return similar findings. Ignorant comments like you made almost always gets on my wick so don't take it personally.

Just to further advance the discussion on media and public awareness by the Australian National Four Wheel Drive Council. I visited its website and could not find any discussion or reference to the bullbar debate, and if it exists on the website please post it. Neither does there appear to be any information available to a casual visitor such as ‘Joe public’ who might be interested to hear the Council's views and its arguments as to why its members should be allowed to have them.

In contrast, a visit to the Pedestrian Council (Harold Scrubby’s) website reveals in media links the very article I posted at the beginning of this thread, cross-reference to a photo of a Holden Ute with a bullbar that has no place on vehicles of this type. Additionally, there is a link at the bottom of the page that takes the reader to photographs of numerous Utes with bullbars that should be banned.

Let’s face it, there are some out there, especially on Utes that have no place on our roads, should be banned, and are not reflective of what 99.5% of recreational four-wheel drivers have on their vehicles.

What is being portrayed on the Pedestrian Council website is not an accurate picture of four-wheel drives vehicles in Australia fitted with bullbars, yet anyone with little more than a casual interest would see this and almost certainly agree that (all) bullbars should be banned. His site quotes research indicating that there is evidence that bullbars cause more injury than would have been sustained in the absence of one being fitted. But fails to point out the bleeding obvious that in many cases the pedestrian had actually caused the accident by failing traffic signals, or crossing in an unsafe manner. But he doesn’t have to let facts get in the way of his story, especially when no-one is questioning it or his authority.

Petitions are great, but all they do is tell the government of the day that those who have them are opposing any changes, as you would expect. A more comprehensive media awareness program by the Council may well prove to be an effective defence. Have a good look at how effective Harold is at advancing his views and ideals...this is what we should be doing!

And as a footnote...I acknowledge there are numerous clubs and associations who are discussing the issue and endeavouring to ‘get it out there’ what we need is a media spokesperson to represent the industry’s views, regularly.

Pedestrian Council - Bullbars

Cheers, The Landy