4WD & Driveways

Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 15, 2011 at 22:50
ThreadID: 84395 Views:4793 Replies:15 FollowUps:31
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Today another child run over in the driveway, killed by his father, backing out the 4WD.

People people people, if you have children, please identify where they are before engaging vehicle, a quick or slow "Where are the kids" before starting engine, as it was, the child crawled away from grandma, looking for his toy under the 4WD.

I know it could be any vehicle, but mostly its 4WD's which have killed more children in driveways than sedans.

It doesn't take much time to "Lookout for kids"

Please, let this be the last child killed this year.

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Reply By: gbc - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2011 at 23:17

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2011 at 23:17
Tragic, yes.

One child a week (52 per year) is run over by the family car - it's only the 4wd's the public hears about and that skews public perception and strengthens the anti 4wd debate based on mistruths.

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2011 at 23:55

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2011 at 23:55
That is incorrect & this is not the thread to introduce that subject.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Feb 15, 2011 at 23:18

Tuesday, Feb 15, 2011 at 23:18
What a tragedy, I couldn't even begin to imagine how the father must feel.
We often have the grandkids stay with us, ages 3 to 9 and I always, repeat always, make sure grandma or one of their parents are with them when I back the car out. If there is no other adult at home they are all in the car with me, even if it's just to back out of the carport.


Pop
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Reply By: cycadcenter - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 03:11

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 03:11
A tragedy for all concerned.

Just wondering though when I grew up back in the 50's and 60's if this sort of accident was common......I really don't remember. Or did kid's back then have a sort of "self preservation" instinct instilled into them by a very early age.

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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 06:35

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 06:35
"did kid's back then have a sort of "self preservation" instinct instilled into them by a very early age"

It makes you wonder. I've often thought about this. Some times I feel that I must sound like a broken record repeating myself telling our kids not to do things, But I give a reason not to did it. I just don't say "Don't do that' I tell them why not to. My parents taught us the road rules, and never believe a car will stop for you, even on a crossing.
I've noticed with horror in shopping car parks, Parents rushing their little kids behind cars backing out or making vehicles stop, so they can cross their path.
This is a very bad practice to teach children, yet parents do it all the time.

Yes, a tragedy, but one that could of been avoided.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:14

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:14
I think you might be on to something here Cycad, when i was groing up cars were all about but not in the numbers we see today. We were taught to keep well away and I don't ever remember have a near miss. You know it might be that people leave their cars running more these days because of airco so kids get used to being around them when the engine is running. When I was a kid in the 50s we took of as soon as an engine started and got well clear.

Just a thought.
Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:53

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:53
My wife's aunty was killed when ran over by a car in her driveway in inner city suburb of Perth WA.
She would now be 60 if alive. These things did happen!
The big difference is the amount of cars today compared to back in those days. A family of today in most cases in Australia has a car for every licensed person in the driveway. When the afformentioned was killed there were three cars in the street.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:56

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:56
there was no where near as much information and news around then and services wernt as decentralised as thy are now meaning you get alot more news from alot further afeild giving the immpresion alot more gos on these days than ever

and in some cases its true australias population has more than doubled in that time and now you get news australia wide - thats alot of stuff going down and being reported on compared to the 60s
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 08:30

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 08:30
Yes, these are incredibly tragic - parents have live with that thought for the rest of their lives. Add the injured and the near misses to the equation, and its a common occurance.

Rearward visibility of all passenger cars these days is poor as well. In a study of this a few years back, commodore ranked 3rd worst behind two 4wds.
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Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:23

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:23
hi all
yes another tragic event and my heart goes out to all concerned
i have always made a practice of:
for my entire driving career

if you can't see the child/ children
then don't move the vehicle until you have verified their position
so far it has worked
cheers barry
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Reply By: Big Al. Gold Coast - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 08:46

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 08:46
Reverse parking in your own driveway and in public parking areas would be a safer option. Vehicles moving forward from a parked position have a lot better view in that direction.
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:56

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:56
Al,
you are on the money, reverse parking won't completely eliminate the problem but it will go a long way to reducing the toll.

All emergency vehicles are reverse parked, all our work vehicles have to be reverse parked for exactly the reason you stated.

When you line up to reverse you scan the area for anything you can obstructions which also includes people and little ones.

Have a good one.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:19

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:19
Couple of months back I was talking to a truckie and he said that his old boss told him once " never drive in son, always back in and then drive out".

Makes a lot of sense in all situations especially for truckies and also when driving across footpaths.
Bruce.
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restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Reply By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 08:54

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 08:54
Yes And I am sympathetic. But not for the parents.

Personally the father should be up on manslaughter charges. Its so simple. As one post said "Where are the kids". We had three and never, I repeat, never even got in the car without checking.

Manslaughter and be done with him. Maybe the wife as well as we are BOTH jointly supposed to be responsible for the kids.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:38

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:38
You are obviously not a parent, if you are, it must be a good feeling to know that you are Mr Perfect.
Show some compassion!
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Follow Up By: Member - Leanne W (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:57

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:57
Don't you think that the family are now already paying the ultimate price? They will be paying for this accident for the rest of their lives.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:21

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:21
Perhaps Phil this would have been better left unsaid.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:29

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:29
This family will feel the pain of this for the rest of their lives. Yhe relationship between husband and wife may well suffer irreversably and each will blame themselves. Nothing anyone can say or do will lessen the pain.

A goal sentence will certainly make no difference to the pain the father feels and certainly will not punish him further. He is paying the ultimate price right now and nothing will make it worse.

My heart goes out to the poor bastard.

Nuff said.

Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:07

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:07
I said in the very first sentence "Yes I am sympathetic". I gather that was forgotten in your "jump to conclusion" responses.

Why do you think that the very first thing we did to this car was install a rear view camera and two 55 watt reversing lights. Totally illegal. And before you say it, they are not work lights. They are down on the bumper. The cop though it was a good idea. Didn't tell me to remove them either. We did this because we look after the (6) sometimes and take them bush with us.

I made mistakes. Too right. But NOT when looking after our kids. This bloke apparently didn't take his responsibilities seriously enough. Otherwise the child would be alive. No excuse. He KILLED a child. Not purposely but that's manslaughter. And he will live with it for the rest of his life. But I wont give him sympathy. I feel for him and if you knew the heartache we have been through with my family then you would know without a doubt that I know how he will feel.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 16:59

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 16:59
Phil in your rush to convict the poor dad (& maybe the wife too) I think you may have missed this key bit of info. "the child crawled away from grandma"! This bloke had apparently passed the responsibility for the child to his mum........................ Ooow that puts a different spin on it doesn't it. (Is that back peddelling I hear)
Very tragic all round., Craig...................
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:12

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:12
Yes I did miss that. Thanks.
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:23

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:23
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that as far as I know it is illegal in some

places to reverse out of your drive onto a public road.

I could be wrong but I am sure I've read that in delving through traffic regs.



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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:55

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:55
Morning Graham,
I remember when I went for my heavy vehicle license some in the mid to late eighties, the instructor drummed it into me, Never reverse out of a driveway or laneway.
By all means reverse in, but drive out.

"reverse out of your drive onto a public road"
But councisl love having Nose In parking.
I Hate IT.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:20

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:20
Just as an aside, in NZ when going for your HT license the favorite trick of the tester was to say Pull up here and reverse around the corner.

Do it and you fail as it is a requirement in NZ that when backing a heavy vehicle you have a wingman watching where you are going.

Even reversing in to a parallel park would get you done.

Dont seem to have that here, sadly.

Wish they did as I wouldn't have backed a bus into one that sneaked up behind me and I couldn't see it in my outside mirrors.

ROFL



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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:10

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:10
Isn't it okay as long as you stay on your side of the road and drive off still on your side? I am trying to say that you are not supposed to cross the center line. Got mucked up a bit.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:41

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:41
You must reverse into your line of traffic and go around the block, do a u or 3 point turn - You can not reverse across a line of traffic

Cheers Tony
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Reply By: Member - Leanne W (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:55

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 09:55
That is so sad. I feel for the family involved. We have 1 child, and got reversing cameras installed in both of our cars. Even so, we do not rely on these cameras. If our daughter is not in the car with us, we make sure we can see her.
It is a tragic accident, kids can get out of sight so quickly.
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:25

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:25
A terrible tragedy ... easily avoided for the most part by ensuring that the driveway is clear before moving the vehicle .....

The most important aspect of moving a vehicle is not jumping in and turing the key/tuning the radio ...... its knowing there are no obstacles in the path of the vehicle.

As for the comment above about someone being "Mr Perfect" for not running over his three kids at any time during their life ..... Pffttttttttttt

Sounds more like "Mr Perfect" was just using common sense and good driving skills to ensure nothing untoward occurred.

If everybody always carries on about "stay away from the winch rope" ...... Some carrying on about "stay away from the vehicle with a running engine" might also be a good thing.

.... and crawling kids/littlies shouldnt be free to roam front yards driveways anyway.

As far Im concerned its a lack of parental care .... same as its not pool owners fault a kid drowns .... its the parent that didnt keep the kid at home.
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:52

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:52
One again a perfect person comment - This is the real world.

Do I think I am a bad parent because my 2 year old was found wandering in the Normanton School yard by the police at 2 in the morning. I can say NO!

If something had happened I would have heard no end of it from forum posts like this....I would not let this happen, I am perfect statement!

Toddlers are great escape artists and unless you have been blessed with one, I would butt out of these conversations.

My 2 year old climbed out of a cot, used a chair to open his door, used another chair to unlatch the back door and went for a midnight stroll. We were woken by the police at 4am who had a frantic time finding who owned the lost soul. We answered the door and when they said its about your son we thought it was our oldest boy. After the 2 year old was fast asleep in bed. Even after this he escaped during the day on two other occasions and once he was crossing the road.

Even when you think you are watching 24/7 you can not always keep track of these clever little escapees

Accidents will happen and lets hope you do not have one like this.

Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:54

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:54
After all the 2 year old was in bed
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:06

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:06
Tony, can sympathise with ya on that one...we had pretty much identical incident with one of our 24 yr old twins when he was 2.

Fred.
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Reply By: Kimba10 - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:25

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:25
We have a 3 year old, we have the garage and a carport, the carport is extremey tight so I can't put our daughter in her child seat till I move the vehicle out, BUT if my wife is not home I put her in the cargo area (prado) not a boot, I then move the 4wd back about 6m then get out and put her in the child seat, I also find the garage is only just big enough so I always park over to the left so I can get out drivers side with ease and generally wife will get out before I drive in, unless bleep ing down rain. If its only me going out I always without fail tell my wife to watch her till I have gone (as she can reach the back screen door latch) If we are all going out and I have to move the prado out of garage before we can all get in I tell my daughter to hold mums hand till I move the car AND they are in front of me so I can see them both. I also have window down and radio turned off till we are all safely strapped in. The big trees on the right hand side of my drive way I removed as I couldnt see when reversing from the carport untill I got passed them, we have 33 kids in our street so I am scanning everywhere before I move the car. Kids will be kids and have no idea of the danger, as much as we tell them untill there at an age they understand it is up to us to watch for them without fail, its our job. I feel extremely sad for their loss and for the dad as he thought grandma had the little one, what a tragedy and he will live with this for the rest of his life. And yes as above mentioned by some one else, how many times have I seen in our local carpark, adults walking with there kids and go behind the vehicle as its reversing out, can they not wait 1 minute for the driver to finish reversing ?? (I normally give these types of clowns a moughfull if they do it to me, especially with young kids, or you see them, smoke in one hand, mobile in the other, 3 year old just wondering beside them then the mother has them standing at the rear of the car while their putting shopping in the boot, at least put them at the side of the car or better off, stick them in the car for 2 minutes then go and load the boot up, no wonder some kids have no road sense....Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Member - nrb1748 (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:44

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:44
From what I viewed on the TV news last night the vehicle was not being reversed. It was being driven forward out of the garage and the child was hit by the front LH wheel.
nrb1748

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Follow Up By: spudseamus - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:50

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:50
yes i got that impression as well.
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Follow Up By: Member - Niss42 - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:36

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:36
Took a lot of posts before someone noticed that the vehicle was NOT reversing, but moving forward.
No reversing camera would have prevented this tragedy.

Barry
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:03

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:03
Wrong !!!!!! see Reply below.

Fred
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Follow Up By: Member - Niss42 - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:17

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:17
Fred what is WRONG ???
I watched the news and the vehicle was moving FORWARD, not REVERSING.
As per reply No 13 by nrb1748 (Viv) above.

Barry
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:45

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:45
ReadTHIS Barry.

Fred
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:35

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:35
The following is lifted from the Kidsafe Site in Qld. If you are interested in knowing more, then Google "Kidsafe driveway runovers":

The Facts*
? Low speed run-over is the third most common
cause of death by injury in the toddler age group in
Queensland (1-4 years).
? Children aged one to two years are the most likely
to be killed or injured in home driveways.
? The vehicle is usually only moving slowly and is
often being driven by a parent, relative or friend.
? 60% of vehicles were reversing at the time.
? 41% of vehicles were 4WDs. As 4WDs make up
only 6% of passenger vehicles in Queensland, there
is an increased risk with this type of vehicle. Other
large vehicles such as utes, vans and trucks are
also involved more often than sedan type cars
? The highest proportion of driveway fatal accidents
occur on weekdays in the early morning between
8:00am and 10:00am and in the late afternoon
between 4:00pm and 6:00pm.
We don’t think of children as being in danger in such a
familiar environment, but they are.
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:33

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:33
The report I read said the Grandmother was supposed to be watching them while the car was moved.

Perhaps the blame should rest with her as if I was the driver I would expect her to do what she was supposed to and keep the kids away from the car.

Easy to blame the driver when it wasnt necessarily all his fault.


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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:36

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:36
Laying blame on individuals doesn't achieve anything, especially in this case.
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:57

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:57
Graham - See my reply to OzTroopy above. I would suggest to lay blame could very likely not be very fair.

Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:13

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 18:13
Poor writing on my part

What I meant was that everyone was hitting on the driver when someone else's inattention possibly contributed to the accident.



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Reply By: Fred G NSW - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:56

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 17:56
Stop Speculating.

ReadTHIS PLEASE

The Father was REVERSING !!!!!!!!

Fred
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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 19:06

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 19:06
Fred,
When opening several different news articles about this poor child only one references "Reversing" The same article quotes "Dhiyan died when Mr Gahir reversed over the bottom half of his tiny body."
Another articles quotes "
Unfortunately dad hasn't seen the child as he's driven out of the driveway and unfortunately, collided with the child, causing serious head injuries, which resulted in the child dying a short time later,'' Senior Constable Mick Prodan said.

Why do so many people jump to conclusions based on "a" News report. Some have even condemed the man to a jail sentence.
One common thread in all the news articles is "A Large Audi 4wd" I was not aware that Audi built a 4wd should this not be a AWD.

Regards
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Reply By: ModSquad - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 19:10

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 19:10
I’m sure that every member of the Exploroz community feels for the family involved in this tragic event and extends every sympathy to those who have suffered such a tragic loss. The content seems to be moving in a circle it would be inappropriate for such a tragic incident to deteriorate in a negative manner. To prevent this, the thread has been locked.
Moderation is just rules

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