Insurance pitfalls

The reason they aren't paying is cause they don't have her driving history, that's it. The reasons you mention are different. If I have an accident I ring my insurance company and they pay it. They don't start asking for my details to see if I meet their policy requirements to be insured. If they are taking your money you should be insured. I understand you comments on rego, drinking etc. This is simply they didn't get the info from her when they insured her. That should not be my problem. She has been with them for some time, paid premiums each year but may never have been insured because they don't have her driving history????? what the!!!!

Josh

Dazren
We have all our insurances with RACV. During the big bush fires a couple of years ago we lost everything we owned except the house. About 1/4 millions worth. We only had normal house & contents plus the car insurance. The RACV bent over backwards to help us with all the claims for vehicles, buildings and content etc. They couldn't have been more helpful. In fact they offered to cover the cost of external fencing around the property which they didn't have too. I guess that's why you pay insurance and I would hope that all insurance companies are as good as the RACV.
Skip

Wildwestwillie, isn't your comment "This is why we pay insurance" contradicting. That's the whole point of this. She has been paying insurance this whole time just to find out she may not be insured cause they don't have the info they need to insure her. What's the point of paying insurance if they don't cover you. I can get my car fixed, not a problem. I just wanted to let people know to be careful about insurance, especially budget direct.

Josh

Oh sorry Josh, I read it that it was the other party who may or may not have insurance.

It's an age thing, you'll get there one day

Willi

They don't have the driving history of the person who hit us who is their client. We are trying to claim through her insurance cause it's her fault.
They have been taking her premiums each year but because they didn't get her driving history when she applied they may refuse to pay. I thought you had to be approved to be insured before they took your money. I know there are conditions like not being drunk, car roadworthy and registered, but if your paying premiums each year then all other factors being met you should be insured. Also this sort of stuff should be obtained before an accident happens. Not wait till an accident then screw the other person while the insurance company get the info for the policy to see if it meets their criteria for approval. The info they need has nothing to do with the accident. It is office work that has not been done. I would be disgusted with my insurance company if I paid premiums all this time and they held out on a claim cause they didn't get the info from me when I applied.
Hope that clears it up.

Josh

Yeah righto, that does sound odd. If you lodge a claim through your insurance company will that take the onus off you of chasing it up and leave it with them?

Not defending BD by anymeans, I have just signed up with them and they are very particular about who will drive the vehicle and if I state that no person under 24 will ever drive the car, the premium comes down and any person under 24 who does drive my car will not be covered.

Insurance companies seldom care about their own customers so what hope will a 3rd party have?

Tim

Josh - agree with Tim and others. In those circumstances I would leave it to my own insurance company to sort it out, especially if I wanted to use their repair agents and get the job done quickly. Hope they get it sorted for you quickly.

How do you figure that. 2 yrs ago my wife backed into a car, my wifes fault. We rang our insurance company and told them we had an accident. The people we hit got a quote, sent it to our insurance company, we paid our excess and our insurance company paid for repairs to their car.
This lady hit us. We got a quote and sent it to her insurance. The accident is her fault, therefore her insurance company should pay for repairs. My insurance company pays if it is my fault.
Their legal obligation is this lady has insurance so if she hits someone they cover it.
This accident wasn't our fault. Third party insurance pays for damage to the other persons property.
If I ran into you, 100% my fault. would you get it repaired on your insurance or expect to claim through mine.

Josh

Josh - Whether you or I think thats fair or not, doesn't come into it.
2 years ago you dealt with your insurance company (the one you have a contract with) and they fulfilled their part of the contract.
In this case the other parties insurance company doesn’t have a contract with you and can ignore you if they wish. They are there to protect their client’s interest – not yours. You should either claim through your insurance company or take legal action against the other party.

Sorry Josh but your wrong. They are only obligated to pay a claim if it meets the contract they have with the insured person. There are many examples where people are not appropriatly insured and therefore not covered. The simple fact is that the only person who you have right to claim against is the person at fault not their insurer. The insurer simply pays the claim on their behalf but only in accordance with the contract they have with the insured. If the contract wording makes it clear that the "accident" is not covered then you have to deal with the person directly or your own insurer.

Why the reluctance to claim on your own insurance. Less hassel and no down side. They will recover the money from the other insurer anyway or the person at fault directly. All you are doing is causing yourself hassel. Because it was not your fault there should be no excess or impact on the no claim bonus

The amount of mis information in relation to insurance is amazing. Most poeple spend more time reading the newpaper than the document that insures (usually) the most valuable things they own, the house and car. In fact I bet most people don't even read the PDS when they receive the policy in the mail. They just think I've paid my policy they should cover everthing.

You need to remember that insurance is like any other produce or service you buy. You pay for what you get. Some insurers are cheaper because they assume less risk. A good example is flood cover for homes. It amazed me how many people after the floods found out that they were not covered for flood then said I didn't know so its the insurer fault. Did they read the policy. In most cases no. It's like going to the car dealer, buying an Excel and then say I though we were taking about the BMW next to it so I expect to get a BMW even though I only paid $12999 for it.

It easy to bash up on insurers but they in most cases have a very good reason for not paying a claim. Like any system that involved people there are mistakes made but 99.99% of valid claims are paid without hassel.

I work for an insurer and we look for reasons to pay valid claims. No insurer I have worked for has a policy, offical or unoffical, to seek out fine print to reject claims. In most cases it costs more to fight a claim than to pay it.

Finally, the term fine print bugs me. it implies that it is somehow hidden to trick people. If people would just read the documentation they receive they would know what is covered and what is not.

I'm not suggesting improvements can't be made. No one can say that about any product or service but to continually blame insurers for all the wrongs people suffer just bugs me..

By the way Josh not all the above is directed at you so please don't take offence.

I think something is missing here. Yes I can and will go through my insurance. Yes they will chase her to get their money. My point is this lady has been paying her premiums for years and because she hasn't provided them with her driving history she may not be covered. Shouldn't they have asked her for it and if she didn't provide it to them, deny her insurance coverage rather than take her money and when she has an accident tell her then that she has never ever been covered with them cause they didn't have everything they needed to cover her.
If you ask me to insure you and I said I need A,B,C and D from you to meet our policy requirements and you only provided A,B and D. Before I conitued to take your premium each year, shouldn't I notify you that unless you provide me with C, then you will not be covered and policy will cease. Rather than take your money for 5, 10, 15 yrs and then tell you that you were never actually covered by us cause we didn't have C.
The point here is not getting my car fixed. The point is because of what I concider an office error she may not have ever been covered by them even though every year she paid her premium. I understand where someone misunderstands a policy or after taking a policy does something that voids the policy but to me this would appear that the insurance company did not have all the info they needed to approve the policy in the first place.

Stew
See my comment above
Skip

Good points Stew.....

Josh, we are you fighting her case. her problem, cvlaim off your insurance and save yuorself any more heart-ache.

Cheers, The Landy

Josh,

Dennis is spot on. The other drivers insurance co only has a responsibility to the other driver NOT YOU.

If she want's to claim from insirance she can, or maybe she has cash laying around that she wants to pay you with. Who knows. The fact is where SHE gets the money from is NOT YOUR problem. Your only problem is getting money off HER.

Your other problem is that it appears that you have not contacted your insurance co. I have no idea why. Most (possibly all) policies state that if you don't contact them ASAP they reserve the right to refuse a payout. So, it is you who actually not be insured.

I'd contact your insurance co immediately, and forget about dealing with the other driver's insurer.

I understand what you are saying. I am going to go through my isurance just to get it fixed. What is the point of having third party insurance then. Isn't it to cover the other person in an accident. Therefore if someone hits you, isn't their 3rd party insurance designed to cover your costs. To go through my insurance would ultimately cost them more I would think. I must operate differently to most as to my insurance company. We have had a couple of accidents where it was our fault. On all occassions the other party got a quote and our insurance company paid for it. There was no mucking around, I didn't have to sign anything or provide anything other than me saying it was my fault over the phone. Must ring my insurance company and thank them for being so simple and honest.

Josh

One thing to be mindfull of is that the other drivers cirumstances may not be fully disclosed. The insurance company like most probably has a accounts and a new policy department. The accounts just collect the $$ on time as per the contract date and the policy department sends out the letters and asks for the outstanding details. Which in this instance she may have ignored.

craig

????????

Thanks Borgy, That is the point I'm making. It seems to have turned to who should claim or who is right. My reply below makes my point clearer I think. I have mates who could fix my car so getting it fixed isn't an issue. This lady may never have been covered simply cause they didn't have a driving record from her even though they took her premium every year.

Josh

And Borgy the reason they do that is because with an insurance contract you have a responsibility of continuous disclosure, especially if you have been fined, or charged with traffic offences.

For example if you have a history of speeding, they may choose to cancel the contract they have with you.....because the assessment of your risk may chane becuase of the traffic infringements.

Cheers, The Landy

Hi Oztours,

I think any insurance company that hide anything, pertinent to an insurance policy they are trying to sell, in fine print, is trying to deceive you.
One might argue that that practice seems fraudulent in the least.

Obviously this insurance company is trying to give Josh the run around in the hope he will give up and just go away.

As for not having their clients details when those details are critical to their carrying out their side of the contract means that they have taken their clients money under false pretences. This is what Josh was eluding to.

I think they have all the details they need and are stalling for time. No insurance company, in their right legal mind, would take on a policy without all the details.

It is easy for corporations to get any information they want these days as there is that much information out there about all of us and industries keep information registers. Ask anybody working in the loans industry. Does anybody think the insurance industry would be any different.

Cheers all, Bruce.

Something so frequently overlooked, continuous disclosure to the insurance company!

Cheers, The Landy

I reckon they know anyway. I went to the NRMA with my mate to pay his insurance and when he went to pay the money producing the policy he received in the mail it was a different amount. He said hang on a minute this is what you have quoeted me here, she said sorry Mr @%#$#^ you have been a naughty boy, he said waht you talking about, she said you have been fined for speeding since this policy was printed and sent to you ???? Had no come back, paid the extra and walked out ?????...........Your green slips linked to the RTA so wouldn't surprise me they know allot more then they are telling us...

Hi Guys
"Constant Disclosure" also applies to any mods of any type done to the vehicle.
If they don't know that you've fitted a draw set, a longrange fuel tank, bigger wheels or tyres or anything else, even changing to a higher spec sound system, it gives them the option of declining your claim because you did not notify them of the changes made as per the requirements of your policy..

Thus speaks the voice of experience.

Disco
aka Tony

""not at fault accident"" should read at fault accident

Hi there Shaker, you can go either way. I have been hit up the backside before and made the claim through her insurance company, my wife has been hit up the rear of her car before and we just put it through ours and NRMA chase the other person, no issues either way didnt pay a cent. One thing is (and this has happened to me and other people i know) if you are insured fully and say the car is only worth 3g but the cost of repairs is worth more then the car then they write it off. If you claim through the other persons insurance company they will pay you say in this case 3g and you keep your car plus get the $$. If you claim through YOUR insurance company they too will give you same amount but take the car. Maybe because the vehicles I am talking about are under 5g they dont worry about the car not sure. For example my neighbour has a VS commodore, was hit on Northern road here in Sydney up the rear end which pushed him into the car infront as well. The cost of new bumper bars, grille, rear tailgate, glass window etc exceeded his 3 g it was insured for. He put the claim through the other persons insurance that hit him up the rear, they wrote it off, they paid him the $$ and he kept the car. We went to wreckers got all the parts that were damaged (well and truly under a grand in parts), whacked them on and still driving it (yes different colour panels) has been reregistered twice and also has 1/3 rd party insurance on it via NRMA but cant be covered fully again. Maybe with these new laws now it will be a different situation not sure........

I have 3rd party insurance so if I hit someone their costs are covered. As I said in a previous reply. I must ring and thank my insurance company for being honest and simple. When we took out insunrance we wanted covereage anywhere in Australia as we were travelling. Most companies said they would cover us anywhere but later found a clause that stated something like If on gazzetted road or not more than xx kms from a main road etc. Ours simply states provided we are legally allowd to be there. In any accident I have ever dealt with if it was my fault my insurance simply paid for the repairs to the other party. If it was someone elses fault I sent in the quote to their insurance and they paid it. Mind you only ever dealt with top insurance companies not budget companies. Times must be changing. My policy has a clause that staes the company will act honestly and with moral grounding.
One Accident we had (our fault) the insurance company got an acessor to inspect the vehicle as some parts quoted may have general wear and tear. The acessor knocked the claim back totally saying it was cause by wear and tear. I rang the insurance company and asked what was going on. They rang me back to say the repairs were all approved and the acessor had done the wrong thing knocking the claim back as it had already been approved. He was simply trying to get out of the claim for the company. His policy is knock every claim and make you fight for it. That's not how my insurance company works so they repaired everything regardless of wear and tear.
When we put the fan through the radiator in Cape york, because of the location it was taking a while for the acessor the get the photos from the mechanic to approve the claim. Some photos weren't clear enough. I rang and told them we were on holidays and needed the car. They made a call then rang me back and said all approved. Just go get it fixed. I have never been asked for anything extra to prove if I'm still covered or not. As I say maybe I just have a really good insurance company, not a budget company

Josh

If you only have third party property cover, why would they fix your car?

Because the other person was in the wrong, when you insure 1/3 party yourself it covers you for any damage you may do to another persons property but if your in the wrong then bad luck with repairs to your own vehicle, difference between comprehensive and 1/3 party. If the other persons at fault and damages your car they will repair only upto market value. If the other person has no insurance at all and you dont either and there at fault then it becomes a nightmare as you take them to court and they say they cant afford to pay then you might get $20 a week for how ever long it takes to repay you and your screwed. And there are thousands of people driving around uninsured dont even have 1/3 party. I have only ever had one car insured 1/3 party which was my first car, since then I have always had agreed value comprehensive insurance doesnt matter how good a driver we may be or think we may be if you have a 20g car and its not insured at all and some one hits you thats also not insured you have nothing.................The amount of people who think there insured 1/3 party property damage because they paid for a greenslip amazes me, has nothing to do with propery damage, thats for personal injury.........

I have full comp on my car. I saying if I hit someone else my 3rd party covers them, as hers should cause she hit us.

That should be:

"There is a few others that have picked this up and tried to straighten things up but off it goes again."

Sorry.

Yes Bruce he basically has put it up as a warning to others to read the fine print and be wary. But doesn't hert anyone to explain other things that have happened to them, its always the way, people have a tendancy to divert from the actual point in question but makes for some good reading and in some cases people posting things that possibly some of us didnt know about.....Dont see the harm in it, and if people dont like the remarks/responses then just go to the red cross in the top right corner and click on it, closes the page........

Thanks Bruce, I was wondering if I was going mad. I have contacted my insurance company and the car will be fixed so everyone can stop worrying about my car lol. After reading peoples comments here I think I have the best insurance company with the best policy. No issues they simply fix it.

Josh

Ok Josh, after that little wrap for your company, who are you with.

Many of us would like to know, we might join you.

Cheers, Bruce.

Kimba10 posted:
Yes Bruce he basically has put it up as a warning to others to read the fine print and be wary. But doesn't hert anyone to explain other things that have happened to them, its always the way, people have a tendancy to divert from the actual point in question but makes for some good reading and in some cases people posting things that possibly some of us didnt know about.....Dont see the harm in it, and if people dont like the remarks/responses then just go to the red cross in the top right corner and click on it, closes the page........

There is no harm in the deviation on most discussion topics but unlike you I could read Josh's frustration in his replies and how people were directing instructions straight back at him when he wasn't looking for any.

What I said about the forum was not referring to general type themes (that I enjoy the meanderings and ramblings on), but this was a warning type of theme that Josh should be thanked for bringing it to our attention. So Kimba if this has struck a nerve I apologise but as someone said there is this red cross in the top right hand corner.

Yes Bruce, I agree. Some people read one sentence then blaze-off, or are just not capable of understanding.

Incidentally, I copied this from Budget Direct's website:

"20. What happens if I don't tell Budget Direct about my driving record, past accidents or claims if I am asked?
This is called non-disclosure and affects an insurer's ability to accurately assess your risk or calculate the correct premium. It can lead to a claim being paid only in part, or not paid at all and/or your policy being cancelled."

Clearly, this and a host of other questions Budget Direct ask relate to assessing their risk as do other companies. It is also a policy requirement to inform the company of changes to your circumstances during the term of the policy.

They are up-front about it and it seems perfectly reasonable to me.
If you consider yourself a "good & careful" driver would you not want your insurance company to suss-out the "risk" drivers in order to keep your premium to a minimum?

Na Mate no nerves struck, wasn't referring to you if that's what you thought in regards to red cross ?? Was agreeing with you in regards to Josh just putting up a warning more or less to read the fine print of your insurance policy so people don't get caught out. At the end of the day he is getting his car fixed (main priority) and not going to be costing him anything. Ill be staying with NRMA I trust any of these fly by night insurance company's, but good in a way makes the others rethink their policy pricing.............

I'm with Ansvar

That is actully factually incorrect. The product disclosure statement, that you receive with the policy, must by law outline all conditions and features of the policy.

Too many people simply choose not to read it until they have an accident and when they find they have the wrong cover for their needs they blame the insurance company...

Most (99%) of insurance claims are paid, if they weren't nobody would insure anything and they'd be out of business...

Rant over...

Cheers, The Landy

Yes, I totally agree Landy. It's always someone else's fault!
Look how many of the above respondents failed to properly read or comprehend Josh's original expression.
The ACCC keeps careful watch on insurance company policy expressions.
Insurance companies need comprehensive and carefully worded legal expressions in their policies to safeguard against rorters.