Towing 2 tonne with Falcon sedan
Submitted: Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 14:46
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Automatic Jack
A first hello to all out there. I'm an absolute beginner to what I hope will be the wonderful world of caravanning and on a very steep learning curve. I've already learned an enormous amount as a guest on this site so thanks to all for that. I've got a van - tandem poptop compliance plate says tare 1610 kg, ATM 2010 kg, GTM 1827 kg, ball weight 182 kg, but am puzzled about what to tow it with. Up until yesterday is was going to be a new Ford Territory TS deisel - then Ford confirmed that the TS will not have a lumbar support in the passenger
seat, and I would have to spend an extra $7-8k on a model I don't want to get a decent
seat. This was an absolute turn off as I have a wife with a dodgy back and no end of low-end lug is worth a partner in pain at the end of the day. So, I'm now thinking about a BF or FG Falcon
sedan with a liquid LPG injection dual fuel set-up. Ford rates these to 230/2300 kg with proper towbar and WDH, but I wonder how this theory tranlates to reality with a van weighing what
mine does in terms of control, safety margins, car durability etc. Towing will be in a range of ~1000 km from
Perth, so no big hills. I'm not interested in a big 4x4 as car will be daily drive about 80% of the time. Any suggestions, experiences and advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Reply By: Member - Michael P (QLD) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 15:16
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 15:16
AJ,
Have You thought of
aftermarket seats. A few years ago I had a great vehicle with b--- awful seats. A pair of quality seats was the best solution for Me at that time.
Mike.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:39
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:39
Better still get the required lumber support put into the Territory seats - I have found the lumber adjustment found in standard seats to be pretty ordinary anyway.
I suspect that with your trailer loaded up and the car loaded up you will most likely be close if not over the train weight of the falcon.
Garry
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:40
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:40
Better still get the required lumber support put into the Territory seats - I have found the lumber adjustment found in standard seats to be pretty ordinary anyway.
I suspect that with your trailer loaded up and the car loaded up you will most likely be close if not over the train weight of the falcon.
Garry
FollowupID:
724044
Follow Up By: Automatic Jack - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 18:51
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 18:51
Thanks Michael
Must admit I hadn't thought of that approach. The idea of buying new seats for a new vehicle is not all that appealing in the $$ department but maybe it's an answer. I wouldn't know
where to start. Any suggestions about brands?
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Automatic Jack - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 18:54
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 18:54
Thanks Garry. Ref putting more support into seats - who does that sort of thing? Motor trimmers maybe? Sorry don't understand 'train weight'. What does it mean and why does it matter?
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 19:54
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 19:54
Quality motor trimmers should be able to do what you want.
Train weight is the max total allowable weight of the vehicle and trailer and is often less than the gross vehicle weight and the total trailer weight combined.
For example if the Falcon has a gross vehicle weight of 2500kg and the trailer has a gvm of 2100kg the train weight is 4600kg. However if the max designed train weight of your Falcon is 4400kg then either you have to carry 200kg less in the car, or the trailer or a mix of both. The max train weight should be listed in the handbook somewhere under towing.
(note numbers in this example are made up as I do not know the actual figures for the trailer or falcon)
Garry
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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 18:02
Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 18:02
AKA GCM or Gross Combined Mass
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Follow Up By: Alan Chops Arthur - Monday, May 02, 2011 at 08:42
Monday, May 02, 2011 at 08:42
If the Territory is the vehicle you want (and it sounds like you've done your homework), I'd suggest upgrading the seats. Either get Ford to quote you on one or two seats from the higher spec model as spare parts (likely to be expensive), or head down to your local ARB store and
check out the
aftermarket seats they do there. They'll usually stock the Paratus seats, and our local store has five or six models on the floor that you can sit on. They're not cheap, but far cheaper than buying a more expensive car, and you'll end up with far better seats than the factory models. I suspect your wife would be very happy with them
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member -Dodger - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 16:01
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 16:01
Sounds like your van is the same size as
mine.
Yes a Falcon would be able to tow it without any problems provided as you said having the correct tow pack. Viz 230/2300kg with WDH correctly set up.
If you were going to purchase the Falcon may I suggest the station wagon as they are a better tow vehicle than the
sedan.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:18
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:18
Just as a matter of curiosity Dodger, why is the wagon a better tow vehicle than the
sedan? Thanks & cheers
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Follow Up By: IronMan - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 18:31
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 18:31
It is said that the Falcon long wheelbase wagon gives a more stable tow vehicle, and the load carrying leaf springs also helps. One might imagine that a ute, with the same wheelbase and leaf springs, would be just as good.
At least, that's what I have heard.
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Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 09:07
Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 09:07
IronMan has said it all.
Also a plus with a wagon when you fold the rear seats down you have a very large load area that can be axcessed from both rear doors and the tailgate.
Economy is no different just a little more exy in purchase price.
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Follow Up By: nickb - Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 20:44
Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 20:44
I agree, the Falcon wagon is a versatile beast but I believe they have stopped production of it, or it is very close to it. This was due to low sales.
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Reply By: Member - Len M(lizard) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:37
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:37
Hi AJ,
Similar situation, wife dodgy back, black top only caravanning etc.... We have a FG ford
sedan auto, agree wagon would be slightly better and with the performance mode option with auto we have had no problems towing van similar to yours (ours ATM 1800 Kg.) One way I looked at it was to apply a 10% rule, i.e. if what I was looking at was not 10% under spec. i.e. Vehicle rated at 2300 Kg try to keep it under 2070. The only other thing I did was replace the electric brake controller which was a time delay model with a P3. IMHO if weights are getting close to limits make sure the rest is as good as you get make it. The P3 made a big difference to our setup.
Regards
Len
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Automatic Jack - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 19:02
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 19:02
Thanks Lizard
Interesting response (maybe what I wanted to hear?). I like your 10% rule and we are light travellers, no kids one small dog so I reckon we would be able to stay
well under 2000kg towed. What is a P3? I'm guessing its a model number, what is the brand name? I've read a bit about the need for an extra transmission oil cooler for towing with Falcon. What has been your experience with the FG?
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Follow Up By: Member - Len M(lizard) - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 20:06
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 20:06
Hi AJ,
Yes it is easy to like if what we hear is what we want to hear!!!. We have found the FG excellent for an all-rounder, towing, town vehicle. As mentioned before wife's back, we had a tow vehicle not a ford! and a town vehicle (she with the bad back had a BMW). In both our opinion value for $ the FG is a better town vehicle than the BMW and a better tow vehicle compared with which we had. The P3 is a Prodigy brake controller by Tekonsha,( look at ebay for value) and this
forum for P3 quality. The quality is both in $ and the way it responds. As a company, we have given many company's $ for vehicles, have not stayed with one breed, have been tolled that our ford does not require extra cooling for any reason, this advise is given because we gave typical usage. Hope they care about repeat business???
Regards
Len
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Reply By: Axle - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:57
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 17:57
Hi Automatic Jack,.. IMHO if the van weight is equal to or more than the tow vehicle, Then you have a bad situation no matter what towing aids you fit. especially with a non 4wd.
Cheers Axle
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Automatic Jack - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 19:06
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 19:06
Thanks Axle and noted. That would have been pretty close to the situation with the Territory as
well but as I said, going for a big heavy 4x4 doesn't appeal.
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Follow Up By: Farmboywa - Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 21:11
Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 at 21:11
G'day Automatic Jack, you could consider the crew cab style of 4x4 or 4x2. Yes, they do have a rigid
suspension and a rough ride compared to the family
sedan, however a thick sheepskin
seat cover can make the ride more comfortable. In addition the high risers are more easily entered and exited because you step across into and out of as compared to climbing down into and up out of. They are designed for weigh carrying and towing. I would not consider them to be a big heavy 4x4. Take a few for
test drives and see what you think.
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Follow Up By: Automatic Jack - Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 00:26
Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 00:26
Thanks Farmboy ... I used to be one too. I hear you, but - I''ve got a mate who's got a Triton of type you describe. I think it looks like an armoured personnel carrier (APC), he says that in town, where I'll be 80% of the time, it drives like an APC, and his wife who is the same height as
mine, needs two bricks and a milk crate to get into the thing. Your advice appreciated but it's not a realistic option for us.
Cheers.
AJ
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Follow Up By: Farmboywa - Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 21:25
Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 21:25
G'day Automatic Jack, I'm driving a diesel, rear wheel drive 08 Ford
Ranger and its definitly more comfortable than riding in an apc. Previous car was a AU series 111 Falcon auto
sedan. I'm towing a venerable Villa Nova Cabana mounted in a tandem 8x5 trailer, all up weight 1200kg.
Ranger tows much better than Falcon. Yes
parking is a liittle more difficult due to wider turning circle. Running board style steps are available as accessories. Good lumbar support in seats. Hi rise
suspension gives you a better view of what's happening in traffic.
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 09:56
Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 09:56
Have a look at the Hyundia Santa Fe 4x4, drives like a car, tows like a 4x4, I have seen many of them towing vans up to 20ft and the owner of one I met was very pleased with it's performance.
SEE HERE
.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 10:50
Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 10:50
Would agree with Doug.....the Sante Fe would be an all round better vehicle than the Ford...towing and not towing ...plus the benifit of way better fuel economy..do yourself a favour and at least take one for a
test drive and see for yourself !!
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Follow Up By: Automatic Jack - Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 13:05
Sunday, Apr 17, 2011 at 13:05
Thanks Doug. I had a look at the Santa Fe and its Kia twin in the original research that led me to the Territory. Very low max towball loading of 150 kg ruled them out. Pity as agree that otherwise they are very appealing.
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