Mud Tyres On Sand versus road tyres and A/T's

Submitted: Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 19:56
ThreadID: 86455 Views:19041 Replies:9 FollowUps:7
This Thread has been Archived

Related Pages

Was wondering how mud tyres perform on sand ?? Have heard that standard road tyre are the best but Im not sure on that opinion. Have been to stockton beach numerous times but have always had BFG A/T's on previous 4wd's and wether it was my imagination but the difference between the A/T's and the standard road tyres the A/T's seemed to be actually that bit better in the sand. I have never run standard road tyre on the beach.Two exact same 4wd's both running 16psi the A/T's seemed to get further and the road tyres just seemed to spin more cause they had nothing to grab where as the A/T's it seemed the outer lugs were helping pull it through the sand better ?? Have heard that mud tyres on sand will want to dig themselves into the sand obviously wanting to bury itself but in saying that my mates GQ 4.2 had no problems what so ever running 16psi. Reason Im asking is if the road tyres are the best for the sand/beach/fraser then I will put some muddies on second rims BUT if the A/T's are better for sand then I will fit them up instead. I probably wont be doing that much mud driving but if the muddies are ok for sand eg Fraser which I would be doing more of then I will go muddies. Regards Steve
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: CSeaJay - Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 20:26

Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 20:26
As far as tread goes, road tyre and AT will be best (muddies dig in rather than float over)

But as far as tyre construction goes, the ATR are likely to be LT's and therfore the choice

AnswerID: 455064

Reply By: vk1dx - Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 20:31

Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 20:31
Same as CSeaJay. The idea is to stay on top of the sand.

Those two 4WD were not identical. To start with the drivers were different and that can make a heap of a difference. Secondly were they in the same gears and engine revs.

Sounds like someone had a heavy foot. Try NOT to spin and you will get further also.

AnswerID: 455066

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 21:40

Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 21:40
We did it purposely to try it out so to speak. Identical cars, both high range and both auto 4L prados, hit the bottom of the dune together but the one with the A/T's seemed to pull up better end got futher, both were also just left in auto and pretty much by the time they got half way up they both had there foot pretty well planted, by the way the one with A/T's got to the top. Regards Steve
FollowupID: 728018

Reply By: blue one - Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 20:43

Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 20:43

One answer

Tyre pressure. The lower the pressure the longer the tyre profile on the sand.

Nothin to do with side lugs.

As a side line, if you can drive on Stockton the deserts are easy

AnswerID: 455069

Reply By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 21:06

Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 21:06
I have used muddies on Stockton and in the Simpson Desert and they were fine, but like any tyre you choose, you just need to find the right tyre pressures for your setup and that brand of tyre.
But as others have said an AT is probably a better way to go if that is the main terrain you want to travel on
AnswerID: 455073

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 22:04

Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 22:04
I have long service at the end of this year and planning a trip for next year which we will be towing a van and will be doing desert and also beach eg Fraser and want the best tyre possible to do everything. They will be going onto a 4L V6 120 series prado, we got rid of the 1kz diesel prado as it was gutless and didnt want to borrow to get the D4D prado so setting up the prado this year ready to go, also running a second set of steel rims for the tyres and keeping the grandtrecks and alloys for around town. I have run A/T's BFG's on all previous prados but are pretty much useless in any form of mud or slop, they just fill the tread up like a road tyre but in saying that were a great tyre other wise for everything else. Will I need mudddies for a simpson run ?? maybe not but Id like to know I have some extra there incase we get some unexpected wet. Also need to make sure they would be also ok for running on Fraser also. Regards Steve
FollowupID: 728022

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 07:06

Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 07:06
Kimba Crackles reply below pretty much sums it up for me. I run the muddies always as well as I have found no disadvantages on sand etc but very beneficial in the mud and slop etc that you can encounter during your travels.
The downsides to consider with a muddy is that they will not wear as well as a AT, the courser tread pattern will increase your fuel consumption marginally and they will be a bit noisier on bitumen. Though for me the positives out way the negatives.

I am running my second set Mickey Thompson MTZ as I have found them to be an extremely well behaved tyre for a muddy on the black top and quieter than others in my experience.

Decisions decisions.......
FollowupID: 728038

Follow Up By: gbc - Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 16:29

Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 16:29
If you've got two sets of rims, as you have stated you have - it's mud tyres all the way for touring.
They do sand fine (have a look at what the desert racers run), and if you're lucky enough to get a sprinkle of rain in places like Carnarvon, they can be absolute lifesavers.
4wd monthly did a little test a few years ago as to what the best mod might be. It came down to lockers or mud tyres. Mud tyres drove the same vehicle further than lockers with standard tyres.
FollowupID: 728094

Reply By: Crackles - Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 21:57

Saturday, May 21, 2011 at 21:57
The performance of A/T's & road tyres on sand is very similar. The greatest difference would be due to driver ability, weight, tyres size, gear selection & of course tyre pressure. If you look at the shape of dedicated sand tyres they have almost no side lug at all so doubt that was the reason your car went further on the day.
If looking at tyres for Fraser then any pattern will do as the sand there is generally very easy. I run mud tyres everywhere & even on extreme trips like the Madigan or Sandy Cape have not found them a disadvantage compared to others. Fit what ever pattern you think you'll need the most elsewhere.
Cheers Craig.........
AnswerID: 455078

Follow Up By: Begaboy - Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 09:19

Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 09:19
i have used muddies as well as a/t on stockton - didnt notice to much difference to be honest - just dropped both tyre pressure to about 18 - was on a nissan patrol
FollowupID: 728048

Follow Up By: TTTSA - Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 09:24

Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 09:24
Likewise Craig, I and many other 4wders I know run muddies all the time, I have personally found no disadvantage on sand, in fact I have found them better than AT's. The other BIG advantage with running muddies is their sidewall construction is generally tougher so you can air down more with less risk of sidewall punctures. Always look for an "E" load rating on the tyre for max strength. You can not go past Toyo Open Country MT for strength.

FollowupID: 728049

Reply By: Robin Miller - Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 17:40

Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 17:40
I'm with the general trend of road tyres then AT's then muds as least capable on sand.

But there are other considerations Kimba.

Half of the many times we have been into places like the Simpson its the muddy clay pans not the sand thats the holdup.

In the at's BFGAT in particular are less capable than road tyres and a little below the average AT. However they are my tyre of choice.

The real danger out there is endless miles of gravel roads , where many have lunfortunately come to grie.

BFGAT work the best on that surface and for me its worth sacrificing the best sand performance for the best performance in the real danger area.
Robin Miller

My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 455134

Reply By: Mick O - Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 21:54

Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 21:54
I have come to muddies through some experience of pushing vehicles through harsh outback conditions. My particular bent in respect to outback travel sees me hauling heavy loads over the worst of terrains. AT or muddies make no difference in sand IMHO. Regardless of the pattern, it all comes down to tyre pressures! and a bit of skill.Well that’s not exactly true, it does come down to the type of tyre as well which is why I’m not a fan of skinny MRF’s and split rims but that’s me. Others love them and so be it. The difference comes when you’re running your tyres at low pressures consistently in sand country. Here it’s not about the tread pattern and ALL ABOUT SIDEWALL CONSTRUCTION (I shouted that for effect!). Your BFG’s are nice as are your Coopers and your Bridgestones but I’ve seen them all destroyed simply because they’re butter-walled tyres (my description there). Run them low and you’ll get radial cracking simply because their sidewall construction and compound composition are not meant to handle reduced pressures on a consistent basis say in dealing with the constant sand of the Simpson or the relentless sand and corrugations of the Canning.

In my experience the Toyo Open Country M/T is the toughest bleep ing tyre of any nature when it comes to sidewall construction and therefore, load carrying and sand eating ability. Yep it’s a killer of a price tag but I’ll pay it every time for the simple piece of mind the donuts bring me when travelling. My puncture rates dropped phenominally when I shoed the new rig in Toyos. From 50 a week with an A/T of well known brand to one...yep, 1! That's nil/nada in my book!

Word of advice though, the Toyo Open Country M/T 315/75-R16’s are a sexy balloon type tyre, they drop to a “D” load rating (1300kgs per tyre) as opposed to the 285/75-R16’s which are an “E” rating (1700kgs per tyre). Analyse your neds.

Cheers Mick

Image Could Not Be Found

Image Could Not Be Found

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 455171

Reply By: Member - nick b - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 08:44

Monday, May 23, 2011 at 08:44
gooday Kimba & all :If you swapped drivers that might give you a better comparison .

But my question is what about the tyre width ? when i lived in NT the station owners would remove the wide tyres for std tyres .

Also I have read that in sand a wider tyre has to push more sand in front of it - like a wave in front of tyre - ? i juess thats at very low speed ?

So is there a right size tyre for the vehicles size /weight ?

Its my opinion that the taller the tyre the better , i have notice when travelling on beaches that it doesn't matter about the treads but the taller tyres don't bog as much I.E the lighter vehicles bogging more often with smaller wheels .

regards nick

Cheers Nick b

My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 455200

Reply By: Jol Fleming - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 09:48

Monday, May 23, 2011 at 09:48
Its all about contact patch not tread, the contact patch big enough so the wheels don't spin matter the tread. if the muddies spin in sand they are like a back hoe, dig big holes. If the sand tyres spin no big deal no holes, so the trick with either is to let m down enough, bit do your home work first try with 300 - 350mm of tread length before you go, both front and rear see if it works.

generally the 'muddies' need less pressure than A/T's as the side walls are 3 ply not 2 ply so stiffer. Tread lenght tells all. For me I use both, muddies for expedition vehicle, i like the tuff side walls and the grip dirt roads better, for towing, and in mud they are great, AT or similar for general run about, they last longer. Horses for Courses.
AnswerID: 455208

Follow Up By: Member - nick b - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 17:14

Monday, May 23, 2011 at 17:14
gooday Jol :That sounds like a good tip from a "young fella".....
Cheers Nick b

My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

FollowupID: 728184

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (11)