Car Running costs on Gas

Yeah ,recon the savings are no where near as much as people think , take in the cost of conversion to gas which is not recouped on resale ,, years ago bought a Jackaroo that had dual fuel , gas was 15c a ltr and unleaded round the 50c ltr mark , was only 2mths later that gas went to 30c a ltr , gas system required tuneing 2-3 times per year negating any real savings.

Taken on face value, when you factor in the cost of conversion then you don't save anything really over the first 5 years or so. However, I for one truly appreciate being able to fill the tank for much less than petrol would cost me, even if the benefit is only psychological :( Fuel costs ARE less... My Paj costs about $13/100K on LPG and about $23/100K on ULP.

There's also the benefit to the environment to consider. LPG is much better environmentally.

So no there are no huge savings to be had (I won't be putting my Commodore on gas as it won't pay at all...) but I don't regret doing it for the Paj.

G/day Robin, Certainly interesting post. Over the years I have owned dual fuel vehicles and after about 10 years through bad experiences I gave up & bought diesels. One thing about dual fuel is the price difference in other states & territories. Towing a van in W.Aust unleaded $2.27 P/L....LPG $1.87 P/L.....5.5 Km per Litre on U/L and 3.5 to 3 K/pL on LPG....the towing ability of the 80 series was not as good on LPG as it was on unleaded so it was worth my while to switch over & just use unleaded. I have spent thousands of $$$ on fixing dual fuel vehicles & for the savings and inconvenience I decided to purchase diesels. I know what you are going to say, "Wait till the injector pump goes, dirty fuel stuffs the injectors & the repair on diesels is very expensive" But at the end of the day, with a diesel it's basically drain the oil a new filter NO Tuning and away you go. I think if I did my sums on the Nissan Patrol I had for five years compared to the dual fuel vehicles I had I would be well in front with the Patrol diesel. I wonder if, one day Nissan & Toyota will bring out a dual fuel Patrol or cruiser straight from the factory!!!

My experience with running LPG.

had my 1994 RN85R Hilux dual cab 2 x4 Ute converted to a duel fuel vehicle in 1998. Had 101,000 Kms on the clock at the time. LPG was 39 CPL and ULP was about 70 CPL. Has run almost totally on LPG since, balance about 80% LPG to 20% ULP. Has been a family hack around town, and a number of long trips, towing either a campa van, 16’ caravan or nothing. About 75% local running and 25% touring.
Best thing I have noticed about the LPG use, is the de tuning of the engine (Not an injection unit, but the gas ring type. Just couldn’t put my foot down for the get up and go, on LPG). Made me drive slower, and anticipate traffic more.
Extended engine life, oil came out almost as clean as it went in! Also appreciated the reduction of tail pipe emissions as LPG is a cleaner fuel than ULP (makes me feel a little Greener).

Really didn’t make or save much money with the difference in prices between LPG and ULP. Cost of conversion at that time was about $1700.00. Where I did save was in wear and tear on the engine, and the ability to drive much longer distances between fuel fills, using both LPG and ULP. This gave me a choice of filling points and I could fill both at the cheaper locations, Rather that the expensive intermediate stops when on long trips. Differences in prices between fill points could be as high as 20 CPL on ULP, and even higher on LPG.

This is where I guess I have saved the most. Just being able to drive from Mt Isa, to Tennant Creek without filling at either Cammoweal or Barkley Homestead, or Longreach to Cloncurry, almost covered the cost of installation in its own right ?.

Vehicle is still on the road, and “saving” still by being able to extend the vehicles range. Currently 310,000 Km on the ODO, and still sings like a reasonably new motor.

Would I do it again? (Convert LPG to Dual Fuel) , Probably not, due to the anticipated increase in excise on LPG.

Defiantly, to extend the range of the ULP powered vehicle on long trips.

I would never consider converting my vehicle to PLG only, as as many people have found out and mentioned on this forum, you are a the mercy of the service stations and their suppliers ion the outback, and when you run out, and they run out, you’re stuck, until their next supply truck pulls in. My experience of this, was,

Had a run in at barrow Creek many years ago, and didn’t like the attitude of the person serving. Pulled in at night to fill up with LPG, and grab a feed for the kids and I, and the bowser wouldn’t turn on. Went into the Bar and asked could I fill with LPG, and the reply was, “NO, we’ve run out, you will have to buy expensive petrol instead.” I turned around and said, “No I won’t, I’ve got my own petrol to run on already in the ute.” And walked out. Not only did the dip out on a fuel sale, but food and drinks for a family also.

Currently I also own a diesel powered vehicle and have thought about getting it LPG injected for better economy and cleaned exhaust emissions (That I’m being a bit Green feeling again), but given the cost in excess of $5500.00 to do this, It’s on the back burner. Also the cost recovery for a LPG injected diesel engine just doesn’t exist. Cost recovery calculated to be well in excess of 400,000 Kms, Just not worth the effort.

Far cheaper to install a long range diesel fuel tank at about $1500.00 and get the cost recovery of this by being able to pick up the 10 to 15 CPL difference between the cheaper and more expensive fill points on a long journey.
What you need to be aware of also, is that the price of LPG per litre rises faster that the price of ULP per litre, the further you get away from major supply centres, thus also negating any perceived cost savings.

Gidday

Maybe, the thing to do is to buy used after someone else has paid for the conversion and taken the depreciation hit. I have a colleague who bought a late model used Pajero on gas after his petrol model was written off in a crash. He paid no more than he would for a straight petrol and much less than for a diesel. Given that it is used mainly for running his family around he is finding a big saving on his weekly fuel spend.

Might not suit everybody but it is sure working for him.

Cheers

Rocco

Robin,
I have been travelling over the past 9 weeks from Brisbane to Nelson on the west coast of Victoria. We have travelled the Bruce highway from Brisbane to Cooktown then across to the Gulf and then onto Clonclurry, Mt.Isa and Tennant Creek. We then travelled south to the Alice, visited Kings Canyon and Ayers Rock and kept travelling south until we have stopped at Nelson.
So far we have travelled 11019 km's on the bitumen. Our rig consists of a 80 series landcruiser running on duel fuel towing a 22 ft caravan weighting 2800 kg's. The cruiser has a Unichip fitted to give optimum fuel economy on both fuels. I have been keeping records of the fuel costs for LPG, unleaded and diesel at all the locations that we have refuelled at.
So far we have used 3364 litres of LPG which cost $3147.24 and 139.5 litres of petrol with averages of 32.02 litres/ 100km on LPG and 27.189 litres/ 100km on petrol.
Using the Excel on the computer with a maths formula, I have found using the averages that I have obtained and the area that we have travelled, that the total fuel costs so far would amount to $3147.24 for LPG, $4735.20 on petrol and $3174.68 for diesel. I have assumed a consumption of 17.5 litres/100km for diesel towing a similar rig.

After doing these comparisons, you have to consider the availability of LPG which in some areas is not available and the lack of power that LPG provides for towing in comparison to that of diesel.

We have found that the price of LPG around the major cities was far cheaper to travel on LPG but in the country, diesel gave a cost saving of up to 10cents per kilometre cheaper with petrol 10 cents dearer than LPG per km.

The most expensive fuel that we have seen so far was at Curtin Springs on the way to Ayers Rock with LPG at $1.30 per litre with petrol and diesel around $2.30 per litre. We didn't refuel there but continued onto Yulara near Ayers Rock and paid $1.099 for LPG with petrol and diesel both at $1.823.

Hope this helps
Yachtie

The problem with this type of analysis is the projected depreciation figures. A few years ago the Landcruiser 100 TD was said to be the most expensive car to run but that was based on significant depreciation which just hasn't happened at all.

I'm not saying that a diesel is a lot cheaper - the higher purchase price means you have less money in the bank earning you money - but of course the diesel has other advantages, the most obvious being range (assuming no long range tanks or gas conversions).

Hi Robin,
Like you I prefer my petrols, I don't buy new anymore but I will convert to dual fuel about 50% of the time especially if I am doing the 240km commute to work and back each day as I am now.
I have just had an Impco old school system fitted to the cruiser and with the 114lt of LPG and the 261lt of ulp I can drive from Bundaberg to the Blue Mountains and back to about Ballina without stopping for fuel, touring range is never a problem.
The trick to gaining the most out of LPG or premium for that matter (as they both have higher RON) is to advance the timing (in the case of my old 80 series from 3º factory to 6-8º) which vastly improves the drivability and mpg.
I don't think you can do that to vehicles that use coil packs rather than a dizzy unless you use a dual mapped tuning chip.

LPG makes the most sense as a city/urban running fuel. Out on the country as has been pointed out, the cost advantage is eroded considerably because of the higher pump price.

I converted my Falcon about 3 years ago now (an injection system, not a mixer ring) and it has paid for itself with the savings over fuel in that time. Depreciation I will never really consider with this car because we will keep it until it has been driven into the ground. And even then I will probably still get it fixed and keep driving it.

Another user has touched on the engine wear factor as well. This is important IMO as I reckon using LPG long term can almost double the life of the engine - no more hydrocarbons contaminating your engine's oil.

I think its a useful fuel that definitely has its place, especially for the city. Not so much for travelling.

Hi Robin,

We changed our 90 Series Prado over before heading around Australia. The $3000 system cost us $1000 after government rebates and I worked it out at the time that we would recoup our $1000 after 16,000km. Well we did 25,000km on that trip and now are enjoying the cheap fill up. These are our highway figures and I've thrown in a diesel comparison.

We have 68 useable litres of LPG and still have the standard petrol subtank of 69 litres.

Mark.


Highway running:
LPG @ 16.5L/100km & $0.749 per Litre = $12.36
Petrol @ 13.0L/100km & $1.49 per Litre = $19.37
Diesel @ 10L/100km & $1.59 per Litre = $15.90

My jack is on gas and around town it is great. 56cpl yesterday where unleaded was $1.35 and diesel was $1.49 at my local. For my car, if the LPG price is 80% of unleaded then i get about the same distance travelled for the same amount of cash. I do not think it would be worthwhile to convert a car that is mainly used in the outback or for a lap of Aus, but around the city the savings are good.
What surprises me in those figures you have quoted is the difference between the 4.8 patrol and both the landcruisers. A petrol patrol is cheaper to run and own? Can't be true can it? I'm not sure on the power/torque figures of petrol versions of patrol and cruiser but which one is the better for towing? I'm thinking of upgrading and did like the patrol.

cheers
wizzer

I know this reply is not exactly in the theme of this thread but, I have never been keen on having a gas tank on a vehicle that I'm sitting in, purely from a safety point of view, I had have never mentioned my feelings before as it was just my opinion and had no evidence that it was more prone to catching fire in an accident as petrol, well that was until Sunday, Hubby and I were at our grandsons Aus Kick footy game when there was a bang, on looking up in the direction we saw two cars spinning out of control, one a red Hyundai the other a White Commodore station wagon, no sooner had we heard the bang and looked up the Station Wagon was ablaze, it had exploded, by the time the car had stopped (what seemed like an eternity, but would have only been seconds) all the back of the car was ablaze, the driver jumped out just as the front exploded, she was one very lucky girl, the other car rolled a couple of times and landed on it's hood, it didn't catch fire, the difference in the two was the station wagon was on gas, obviously with the first hit something must have ruptured. It was a site I didn't want to see I can assure you.
I will just add, the woman was a single mother of 4, fortunately her kids were not in the car, they would never have got out, the other car had 5 occupants, all 6 were taken to Hospital, 3 in serious condition. Just my 2cs worth.

I've had 5 dual fuel cars over the last 30 years the last being a '98 Pathfinder. They all did 300,000 plus kms without any notable incident. As an extra aside, I never serviced any of them on a km basis just every 6 months. The oil coming out still looked pretty good to me. The Pathfinder wasn't using any oil at 350,000 kms when I traded it and over the 10 years I had it I reckon it almost saved me its purchase price of $30,000 in fuel.
Points to note, if you spend less on fuel you tend to wrack up more kms so you end up spending the same but have a car with higher kms :-). LPG is not good value out of major cities. The price difference is now at the point where I would not bother.
I have since gone diesel and am very happy, but only if it is a Euro diesel. The Jap diesels are ordinary in my book and I think that petrol is the go in that case. The Jap petrol engines are as good as any in the world. I prefer how the Euro diesels drive and perform over petrol engines. I probably agree that the cost savings are negated by other issues but I still prefer driving them. Mike