Stuffed Awd at Mt Dare.

Submitted: Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 11:55
ThreadID: 87373 Views:4987 Replies:23 FollowUps:30
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Hi all,

It amazes me that people do not venture into the rugged parts of Oz with the appropriate vehicles at times.
I saw this Mitsubishi Challenger drive into Dalhousie Springs and the next day when I pulled up at Mt Dare it was there with bonnet up and guys under it looking at a major issue. I over heard the lady saying to the staff, what sort have vehicle should we have had. She was in quite a state. Now the tracks in this region are slightly on the rough side to say the least, you would have thought their research would or should have told them this.
I can only shudder at what cost it would have been to repair or recover that vehicle, from that remote locale.

Regards from Col.
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Reply By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:01

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:01
Do you mean an Outlander? A Challenger is every bit a genuine 4wd...
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Follow Up By: Member - colin J (VIC) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 13:38

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 13:38
Sorry you are correct, Outlander.

Col.
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Reply By: Fab72 - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:39

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:39
It's not wh you drive that counts....it's how you drive it. I have proven this many times, most recently with an Astra at Palm Valley and a Captiva in the Simpson Dessert.

Even a fuily equiped Cruiser or Patrol will break in the hands of the inexperienced, gung ho types.

Fab.
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Follow Up By: pmk03 - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:43

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:43
X 2

Many years back I travelled to many places in a Datsun180B long before I owned 4WD

PMK
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Follow Up By: Member - Robbo (QLD) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 15:04

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 15:04
It's how you drive .. true , but what you drive is also very important!
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Follow Up By: dazren - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 18:17

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 18:17
does not count PMK // Datsun 180 B's went anywhere and did anything, they were unstoppable, If you thought you could not do it, then the 180 would do it for you ?? ah they don't make them like that anymore !! dazren
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Follow Up By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 18:36

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 18:36
I took my XC falcon ute thru most of the outback back tracks in the late 80's.

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Follow Up By: Muddy.au - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:46

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:46
It must be how you drive, there is a picture in the Birdsville Hotel of a 911 getting some air over Big Red after crossing the dessert.
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Reply By: olcoolone - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:48

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:48
Even the most capable reliable 4x4's break down.
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Reply By: Member - colin J (VIC) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 13:43

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 13:43
Hi all,

Yes I agree that the best equipped and prepared 4wd in the land can and do still have troubles at times, but they are far less likely to than this type of vehicle.

Col.
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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 14:28

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 14:28
I know of a very well equiped Patrol that was towed several hundred kms due to contaminated diesel. Planning is the key more often than not. Most cars are more capable than there owners if well maintained.

Craig
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Follow Up By: Member - Robbo (QLD) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 14:28

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 14:28
Absolutely agree . I would feel very nervous with only a soft roader out in remote desert. Only a matter of how long you last. Even with the best driving techniques you can't totally undo the effects of hostile terrain on your vehicle.
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 14:08

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 14:08
Hard to say what the problem was with the Outlander.

May have been a mechanical issue, coolant loss issue, incorrect tyre pressures for the terrain and driving style, wildlife strike, any number of problems, accidental or contributary...
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 14:15

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 14:15
Hi Colin

Like the others have said above, it is not the vehicle, but the driver most times. A few ago when we went out to the Nuccalena Mine site in the Flinders, the track out clearly states 4X4 high clearance vehicles only. The track in had numerous wash aways and some very large rocks going in. Every now and them on some of the more deeper wash aways, there were scape marks, for which Fiona and I put them down to someone going to fast.

When we get out there, there was a Holden Astra out there and he was the one leaving the marks. When I asked him about coming in, he said he come out regularly and loves parking his Astra alongside the big mean looking 4X4 with giant suspension lifts and to see the looks on their faces.

We have been to Dalhousie many times and it would be possible to get a standard road vehicle in there, but just take your time. Venture out into remote Aboriginal communities and the form of transport for the locals is old Holdens and Fords.

If on the other hand it comes in wet, well then it is a completely different story.


Cheers


Stephen
Smile like a Crocodile

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AnswerID: 459149

Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 17:47

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 17:47
Years ago we were at Dalhousie heading out into the desert. Started raining midday and continued, getting heavier all night. By morning the place was a bog. A 4wd club group headed out towards Purni early and turned up back at camp about half an hour later saying that the track was impassable. So they and everyone else headed to Mt Dare and down the finke track to go around the flooded creek. Mate and I had a leisurely pack up and then headed out towards Purni on the main track, found where they had a problem near the Gluepot, full side impression/profile of a Pajero in the mud on the bank on one corner where they had nearly rolled it. Hence the impassable info from them. Out past the tip we drove out of the rain band and continued all the way to Purni in fine but overcast weather on a dry track. There were clear tracks ahead of us in the dirt and when we got to Purni there was a Hiace 2wd 14 seater Commuter bus that had driven ahead of us that morning, did have a LSD and the driver a local said he went out there often.
Late that afternoon the mob that had driven around the long way arrived in time to set up camp in the rain with wet gear and having had to tow and debog a few times along the way.
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Reply By: kidsandall - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 15:03

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 15:03
How the heck did guys like Len Beadell and the rest ever croos Australia in the vehicles they did before the tracks were as good as they are now. My uncle took a mini around oz 40 odd years ago and went to many places we did in our cruiser, not as easy as we did but he still did it. I have read stories of Model T fords going to the centre years before the roads were sealed. Goods were carried into and out off Wilpena pound in 2 wheel drive cars through flooded creeks and mud deep enough I would be scared to take the cruiser into.
The driver makes the difference between making it or not. Yes you do need to be prepared but sometimes I think we blame vehicles when the driver is the problem.

Josh

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Follow Up By: Fab72 - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 18:01

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 18:01
I think from memory that the owner of the Birdsville pub took delivery of a brand new Model T Ford and had the sales rep drive the thing up to Birdsville for him....loaded to the hilt and with something like 6 or 7 people on board.

Spot on Josh!

Fab.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:28

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:28
Did I hear Mini? :-)
At Coward Springs on our way to Billa Kalina and Kingoonya and back to Adelaide over Easter 1970.
Hand up anyone who has driven that route, south of the Margaret Riiver, in ANY vehicle?

Tried to do this route again in 1995 (25 years later) in a 4WD and could not get through. :-(

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome.
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Follow Up By: The Original JohnR (Vic) - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 09:03

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 09:03
Peter, that brings to mind our Melbourne - Perth and back in a Capril in 1971for an 11 day honeymoon. With rain from Ivy Tanks, the Nullabor was all but impassible before Ceduna on the return journey, but not the way for the indomitable Capri which slid its way back.
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Reply By: Member - Salt grinder - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 15:21

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 15:21
Don't think it helps to pontificate over another's misfortunes. The best teacher is often in the school of hard knocks. We ALL make our mistakes and the best made plans of mice and all men can come unstuck at any moment.

I would like to think the unfortunates would have appreciated a simple "Can I do anything to help" approach.

The next time they undertake an adventure I'm sure they will be much better equipped and wiser for this experience and will remember the time the kind gentleman extended a helping hand.

Isn't it the attitude of the outback to help a dog when he (she) is down rather than adopt an imperious attitude.

No offence meant, just my thoughts.



I sometimes question my sanity . . . . and then it answers back.
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AnswerID: 459159

Follow Up By: Member - Robbo (QLD) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 16:13

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 16:13
I haven't noticed any imperious attitudes in any of the above only a justifiable scepticism
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Reply By: muffin man - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 16:47

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 16:47
Who knows where or what caused the problem, but an AWD will get you to most places in OZ and is more than adequate for most.
MM
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Reply By: Crackles - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 17:53

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 17:53
If the problem was under the bonnet then it's quite possible any modern four wheel drive could have suffered a similar fate. I personally would have no issue driving a suitable prepared Outlander into Mt Dare and would think it is well within the capabilities of a vehicle of this type. As you obviously don't believe the Mitzsubishi to be suitable for easy outback tracks, it does beg the question Colin.......... what would be the minimum capable vehicle you would suggest?
Cheers Craig.... .
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Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:29

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:29
the most un-reliable and un-safe thing to take out to these remote areas is a person that "thinks" they know everything, you come out live in these actual places and you soon realise that it has NOTHING to do with the type of vehicle and everything to do with the person in control of it, the biggest and best come un-stuck long before the "wisest" do ....
I remember driving out from Yarralin in the NT at the end of the wet to see how the roads were so we could get stock in, roads were absolutly shocking and after i got to the highway end i saw an old EA falcon driving along the dirt/mud towards me, i stopped him to tell him there was no way he would ever get through, it was one of the local guys from Yarralin and guess what he had already been accross it and was heading back and yes he made it fine and i had all sorts of problems in a 4wd..... it has NOTHING to do with the vehicle at all eh..
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Robbo (QLD) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:34

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:34
Well Joe how come you don't drive a Falcon then?
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Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:46

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:46
cause it broke when i put 800kgs in the boot hahahaha
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Follow Up By: kidsandall - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 21:12

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 21:12
There is a guy in Alice Springs that does 4x4 tours of the local area. Thing is he does drive a 4wd. He takes his car where most 4x4 owners struggles. He says it is nothing to do with the vehicle, all about the driver.

Josh
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Reply By: Hairy (WA) - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:37

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 19:37
I reckon in-expeirience and mechanical failure would have to be the biggest problem in any outback travelling.......you can never plan mechanical failure and the only way to get expierience is to get out there and have a go?
Good on them for having a go.
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Reply By: mullyman - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 21:12

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 21:12
Did a lot of exploring on South Australia's West Coast in the 70s. The vehicles of choice were assorted Holden's,Ford's and Valiant's. Super reliable and very tough.There were of course places we could not reach,but then neither could anyone else.Shank's pony was your only option to get to the best fishing spots. Never saw a 4WD back then apart from the odd FJ40 and Land Rover that the farmers drove. Everyone towed their caravans with the above mentioned 2WD vehicles. A shiny new 4WD will get you into a lot of bother,if you don't use good old common sense.Something sadly lacking in a lot of cases these days.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 02:58

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 02:58
grew up there and yea just normal everyday roads were far worse than stuff like the tanami, gibb great central moorinie loop etc

and as said just about no one used a 4by

as for ah what about if it rained

yep it did nd back then there was no pussy footing closing the roads because of 2mm of rain - roads were never shut and every one still coped in some form or another
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Reply By: cookie1 - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 22:04

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 22:04
Last year at Purni Bore had a chap ask to borrow my air compressor, it went thermal - Thomas Big Red, he must have had 60psi in his tires and was going sideways trying to get grip on the sand nearly hitting my 4wd - NFI. His vehicle, a very capable 60 series Toyota (I'm a Patrol owner). It is very much the driver, their knowledge, their capacity to ask questions if unsure and driving to the conditions.

My 2 cents
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Reply By: bgreeni - Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 22:28

Monday, Jul 04, 2011 at 22:28
I drove a Holden ute all round the Kimberly in the late 60's. Not much bitumen then and dirt most of the way to Geraldton. Victoria was crossed by a ford as was the Fitzroy. The ute with LSD would get me most places that people now want a 4WD to go.
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Follow Up By: urbanus - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 00:17

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 00:17
Few outback travellers in the 50s and 60s drove 4wd vehicles. My dad did plenty of trips with us in a bog standard VW beetle and later an EH Holden wagon with no problem at all. Nobody thought this was unusual. If anyone is in doubt with the capability of a 2wd then have a look at the Redex Endurance Trials or the T2 VW Kombi tackling the OTT Flight of the Volksies.
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Reply By: mikehzz - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 08:06

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 08:06
The other thing to remember about the old days....I didn't say good :-), was that we used to stand around a car with the bonnet up fairly regularly, far more than today. Didn't need a NASA technician to get it going again either.
As for an Outlander at Dalhousie? I would expect to be ok but would probably put decent tyres on it first to save some aggravation. If its wet I would sit at home in any car, not worth the suffering. Mike
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Reply By: Member - Vince M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 08:41

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 08:41
4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive this is the easy way, every year there is a Bicycle ride/race across the Simpson & its done late in the season, (yes they have a back up vehicles in the race) but a few bicycles do it every year unassisted the vw combi club did it one year we crossed & had no problems. I crossed in a full sized denning bus (rig road) in the early eighty's, I all so saw in the 70's a falcon (non 4x4) cross for a add for ford & I first crossed in late 60's in a blitz & I crossed in a 2 stroke Suzuki 4x4 in the mid 70's & had my worst crossing, break downs, bogg's & problem after problem in a fully sponsored fully equipped new model cruiser with one of australia,s leading/pioneering outback adventure film makers, (who sadly passed away last year) & who use to say as we passed or got help from a vehicle that should not be able to be in some of Australia's remotest spots, so who's got the correct vehicle us in a $80,000 4wd or them in a $500 piece of junk?
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Reply By: Ozrover - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 08:53

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 08:53
#1, It was a Mitsubishi Challenger.

#2, The problem was a leaking power stearing pump, (warranty issue).

#3, They drove it into Alice & had it fixed.

#4, & yes some AWD vehicles do come to grief out here, as do a lot of regular 4wds.

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 09:17

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 09:17
Thank you!
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 17:12

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 17:12
Jeff - Would you agree there are some times when you don not need a 4 x 4 to cross the desert and then there are times when there is no way you could unless you did have a 4 x 4? For instance just after a long hot spell and a big wind. I would like to see the 911 cross then, or indeed the combies :-) Last year a good example - Lots of rain and no crests made easy work of all those sand hills.

Just summarising the above comments into some perspective.

I see a lot say I drove this & that across there, but lets face it the track may have also been maintained back then as well. In the 1960's Dad & I drove across the nullabour in a Toyota Crown 3 on the tree station wagon.

Who wants to go back to the days of will I make it in this car? mmm

The idea of using the new 4 x 4 is the hope reliability and doing it with some level of ease :-)

Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Wednesday, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:06

Wednesday, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:06
Tony,

Yes, in a season of ideal conditions ie; reasonably dry, no wet clay/salt pans etc... I would have a go at taking an a 2wd vehicle across the Simpson, but It would have to be something with adequate ground clearance with a good LSD or lokka in it, I would also have a competent 4wd vehicle & driver as back up!

Two years ago we had an American fellow who wanted to take his 1923 Roles Royce across the Desert, this bloke had previously done the Paris to Peking rally with no problems, he needed Daves assistance with the shorty Patrol to do the Simpson!

As far as Awd vs 4wd vehicles breaking down, any vehicle can & will break down given the opportunity, as I proved earlier this year when my 80 series snapped a drive axle north of Bourke, I'd already driven from here to Oodna', Marree, Mungeranie, Birdsville, Windorah, Longreach & Charleville, it could have happened at any point in the trip, I was just lucky it was near help!

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Reply By: Shaker - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 09:20

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 09:20
We came across a very well prepared group on the Canning Stock Route with a disabled Prado 120 series, the problem? .....
A seized alternator bearing!
Who could ever anticipate that??
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Reply By: ingo57 - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 10:35

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 10:35
"Dammed IF you do and dammed If you dont" It amazes me all the ever Increasing amount of know alls on here knocking people for getting out on there and seeing different parts of Oz. Besides, the traffic heading out to these places these days If you were to break down It would only be a matter of time until someone came past and offered assistance, thats the Australian way Isnt it?

As Jeff says from Mt Dare It was a leaking power steering pump for crying out loud! Hardly something to criticise or post on a public forum over being the wrong vehicle under prepared blah blah blah!!!!

This forum has some good stuff on it from time to time but the more I visit the site there seems to be more and more whiners thinking there better than the next guy and have to write about it for there own self Importance.

Good on the bloke taking his brand new Challenger to Mt Dare, at least he is getting out there and having a look at this great country. I know I'd much rather be dealing with a "leaking" power steering pump at Mt Dare than sitting here at my computer reading this jargon!

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Follow Up By: Member - Robbo (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 11:51

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 11:51
People are quite entitled to express their opinions on this forum as long as they repect others. I trust you also will extend that respect to others in an appropriate polite manner
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Follow Up By: ingo57 - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 12:50

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 12:50
Rob,

To have an opinion It helps to gather the correct Information!

The Post: "Stuffed AWD at Mt Dare"

Fact: It was a leaking power steering pump!

Another useful post to exploroz archives dont you think?







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Follow Up By: Member - Robbo (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 13:43

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 13:43
I'm more concerned about attitude and politeness than about being right or not
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Follow Up By: Member - Robbo (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 13:44

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 13:44
I also acknowledge that having correct facts is useful
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 13:51

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 13:51
Hey colin j, I didn't think you sounded like a know it all or that you were whining in any way. I don't necessarily agree with your opinion and you got the facts muddled, but you are entitled to it without getting bagged in my book. Cheers, Mike
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Follow Up By: ingo57 - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 14:05

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 14:05
Tragic!!!
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 15:16

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 15:16
Just call me princess :-)
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 16:45

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 16:45
Ingos got a point, no matter how he expressed it.
Where did the "major issue" come from?

Pretty sure if it was one of the regulars on here who owned the vehicle, there would have been tears. Luckily it was someone who wasnt on here to present the true situation and spoil the fun :-)
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Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 17:17

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 17:17
Unless you hit the desert during harsh conditions I see no why you could not cross it in a soft 4 x 4. Just go prepared and give it a go :-)

I recon a soft 4 x 4 would be putting in less effort as a fully loaded big 4x4 with a camper in tow :-)

Cheers Tony
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Reply By: kidsandall - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 17:27

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 17:27
Shouldn't this post have read "Soft roader makes it to Mt Dare, let down by leaking steering punp. Could've happened to anyone".Just an idea.
So if you saw my cruiser being towed at cape york, how would this thread have read then????

Josh
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 17:57

Tuesday, Jul 05, 2011 at 17:57
"drove past a cruiser today that was stopped on the side of the road. As it wasnt moving it was obvious the owner hadnt given done any preparation for the trip. He didnt have an Exploroz sticker on so is fair game for a good slagging off. What a loser"

all in fun gents :-)

thing is though-it turned out not to even be a softroader!
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Reply By: muffin man - Wednesday, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:31

Wednesday, Jul 06, 2011 at 10:31
So where is Colin hiding.
He got the vehicle and facts completly ballsed up.
Anyway it's made good reading.
Muffin Man
AnswerID: 459281

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