Dual Battery Dilemma

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 11:50
ThreadID: 87795 Views:3495 Replies:9 FollowUps:13
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Just back from 3 weeks in the Simpson and everything ran fine.

However on Sunday morning I had a flat battery. Tried to jump start the old Pootrol from the 2nd battery but it was flat too.

Faint smell of acid around the 2nd battery got my attention and it had obviously vibrated itself to death and wasn't charging. Yesterday I headed off to get a new deep cycle marine battery and now all is well again.

My question though is; why did the main battery go flat too?

I'm no sparkie but I thought these set-ups had an isolator to protect the main battery. Is something not quite right here?
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Reply By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 12:03

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 12:03
Yes Michael, something is not right.
A battery isolator will isolate when the system voltage falls to typically 12.7 volts.
So as your faulty battery pulled the main battery down it should have disconnected and prevented the main battery from being discharged any further, leaving sufficient to crank the vehicle.
The isolator needs to be checked out, and it would be a good idea to have the health of the main battery checked also.

Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 460966

Reply By: SIF4X4 - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 12:20

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 12:20
Crook isolator dragged main battery down

Get yourself a basic solenoid (about $45) with a dashboard switch so that you can manually isolate the batteries.

I have been down the path with two brand name isolators and they both failed before having been 12 months in use.
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Follow Up By: Bill BD - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:11

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:11
I'd forget to flick the switch. Its a failsafe system other than that.
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Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:34

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:34
There are some problems with a manual system as SIF proposed.
First is as Bill said, forgetting to turn it ON and hence not charging the auxiliary battery.
The second is forgetting to turn it OFF and drawing down on your cranking battery.
And thirdly, if it is ON whilst cranking then some heavy current will be drawn from the auxiliary battery. Not good for deep-cycle batteries and not good for the isolating relay or solenoid and wiring unless rated for starter current. Of course it can be connected with the ignition switch so as to be not energised during cranking.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: SIF4X4 - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 06:41

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 06:41
It has worked for me, Al, for the past years with only the forgetting bit being a problem.
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Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 08:23

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 08:23
SIF, There is no doubt that the simpler systems can be best, provided you can drive them.
For me, the forgetting bit would be an increasing problem. lol

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 17:12

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 17:12
There have been several similar problems withing the club with brand name electronic systems,
I have used TBRS (the big red switch) in three different vehicles over the last 7 years. I have never had a problem with it and fortunatly, have not forgotten to turn it off when I have finished driving for the day.

My experience I would not go for anything else

Good luck
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 15:44

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 15:44
In providing balance to one reply, a new isolator might be the go - there are hoards of happy long term users of such devices - my current Surepower model is still quite happy after 6 years service - A Rotronics unit I had in my previous conveyance was about the same age and still going fine when traded.
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Follow Up By: CraigB - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:15

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:15
Darian,

Did you know that Surepower have been recalled due to safety issues?

For further details see http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/in...itemId/1004707

Regards
Craig
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Follow Up By: CraigB - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:19

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:19
Not sure why link is not working. However try here http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=1004707&nodeId=b2312fe63130c9d252b00cdec40dc0e7&fn=Recall%20Notice%20Advertisement.pdf
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Follow Up By: CraigB - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:21

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:21
Link thing still not working so here is the web address:

http://www.recalls.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=1004707&nodeId=b2312fe63130c9d252b00cdec40dc0e7&fn=Recall%20Notice%20Advertisement.pdf

Regards
Craig
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Follow Up By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 15:06

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 15:06
Yes thanks - saw the recall note here and elsewhere - it was a batch, and mine was well outside the range.
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Follow Up By: CraigB - Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 15:17

Wednesday, Jul 27, 2011 at 15:17
Yes so was mine but ARB had no hesitation is replacing it with a Redarc at no charge.
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Reply By: Member - Michael O (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:31

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:31
Thanks for all your replies.

Is it possible that the alternator could have been directing all the charge to the faulty 2nd battery, at the same time forgetting about charging the main one and allowing it to go flat??

Or is that a dumb non-sparkie question?
AnswerID: 460993

Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:36

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:36
Certainly that is possible but not very likely Michael. The isolator would still have to be faulty for that to happen.

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: ABR - SIDEWINDER - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:56

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 16:56
Hi Michael

It is best to have the main battery and isolator tested.

It is also possible that the contacts in the isolator have melted / welded together. I have also seen a popular solenoid full of dust and not allowing it to disengage. (Mounted horizontal did not help and the thin cork gasket was in pieces).

Do a few voltage drop tests across the solenoid or send it to me and I will give you a report.

Regards

Derek from ABR
AnswerID: 460995

Follow Up By: ABR - SIDEWINDER - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 17:02

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 17:02
Test-DBi

Here is the testing procedure for our DBi120 and DBi140R.

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Follow Up By: Member - Michael O (NSW) - Thursday, Jul 28, 2011 at 06:41

Thursday, Jul 28, 2011 at 06:41
Great advice Derek. Thank you.

If I was in Brisbane I would be around to see you today...
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 18:23

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 18:23
Michael,

Are you sure you have an isolator between the batteries?
If no isolator is present, a fault in one battery will drage the other one down until both are flat.

Until you ensure an isolator is present and working properly, I would disconnect the deep cycle marine battery to protect your new investment.

The best isolator to use is a "smart" one, that does all the switching for you.
Some, like the Piranha DBE150 or DBE180 series electronic isolators have an indicator to show when the isolator has switched over to allow charging of the second battery, once the starting battery has reached a satisfactory voltage.

Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 461002

Reply By: Bigfish - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 18:34

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 18:34
Have had a redarc isolator for several years. Wired up so that if the main battery is flat, I push ina button, hold and both batteries will be connected...this allows me to start the vehicle. Relaese button and both batteries isolated and charging as before( naturally will investigate why main battery was flat).
Supershure have had a recall because several of them started fires. True...my works nissan,s unit has to be replaced due to this recall.
cheers
AnswerID: 461005

Reply By: Member - Murray R (VIC) - Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 21:01

Tuesday, Jul 26, 2011 at 21:01
Michael
Might pay to get your charging system checked as well, if both batteries were flat there is a good [maybe bad] chance that it's an alternator problem and not the isolator.
Murray
Another Mexican

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AnswerID: 461021

Reply By: Member - Michael O (NSW) - Thursday, Jul 28, 2011 at 06:42

Thursday, Jul 28, 2011 at 06:42
Thanks to all who replied!

Off to the auto electrician's today for a check-up.
AnswerID: 461125

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