Has someone moved Poeppel corner moved?

Submitted: Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 16:39
ThreadID: 88856 Views:3545 Replies:3 FollowUps:5
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Hi all,

I took my hand held GPS along for the Simpson trip this time and found that standing above the corner post (with a 5.6mt Inaccuracy as quoted by the GPS) that the spot where the corner should be S26,000,00 E 138,000,00 was 360mts away.

Being not a GPS wizard I thought I'd see if anyone on EO could help.

Cheers Wilko
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Reply By: Lex M - Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 17:18

Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 17:18
What Datum was your GPS set to?


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Follow Up By: Lex M - Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 17:20

Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 17:20
Also refer to :-
http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?visitid=5755
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Follow Up By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 22:05

Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 22:05
Hi Lex,

Its WGS84

Cheers Wilko
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Follow Up By: Lex M - Tuesday, Sep 06, 2011 at 10:55

Tuesday, Sep 06, 2011 at 10:55
Something I've wondered for some time is how to relate the co-ordinates calculated by the explorers and early surveyors of this country to the current datums.

For example I believe Leichhardt used sextant and chronometer and logged his lat and long accordingly. How can that be related to a GPS position?

As everyone probably knows a change from 66 Datum to 84 Datum results in a difference of 200 meters. What datum would be most appropriate in the case above?

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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 20:00

Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 20:00
Hi Wilko

To your answer, no as once the marker pegs have been recorded and put in place, it is then law, regardless how far out the survey had been. A very classic "Balls Up" to be crude was the South Australian/Victorian Border which was out by kilometres. It even went to the Highest Courts of the day, in favour of Victoria. That is when you have a close look at the maps, there is that dog leg at the Murray River, just east of the old Border Cliffs north of Renmark. That is why Charles Todd was called in by the South Australian Government to determine the Border with NSW.

Image Could Not Be FoundImage Could Not Be Found

Image Could Not Be FoundImage Could Not Be Found

This is what I had to say back in 2006 when I logged it as my first Degree Confluence:

07-May-2006 -- Sunday 7th May 2006 was to be the first of 4 Confluences that my group would visit and record during our Simpson Geo Expedition 2006. Having travelled the Simpson Desert many times, I have never thought about confluences until researching for this very remote Simpson trip that we were about to undertake.

Seeing that we would again be at Poeppel Corner first, what a better place to practice before venturing out into the true remote sections of the Desert for the 2 most remote confluences that we were to record.

Arriving late in the day, it was the usual photo shoot at the Concrete Pillar that officially marks the borders of South Australia, Queensland and the Northern Territory. This concrete pillar was erected on the 25th August 1968 by the Geoditic Field Section, Department of Lands, South Australia.

Heading in a south westerly direction, our GPS’s soon had us at the correct location, and the photos were taken to record this first confluence


Modern technology is far more accurate that the days of the old "Chain Measurement"

All modern day surveys all done now with very high tech GPS systems that are extremely accurate. My son is a Licences Surveyor and some of his finds have been very interesting.



Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 20:54

Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 20:54
Hi Wilko

I should have used this photo as well which shows just how far out the Border Survey was, and results in hundreds of square kilometres that should actually be part of South Australia.

Image Could Not Be Found

And to answer your original question, that sounds about the correct distance to get the true Latitude and Longitude for the Corners


Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 22:08

Monday, Sep 05, 2011 at 22:08
Thanks Steve,

I'll take a look at the signs when I'm down that way next week.

Cheers Wilko
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Sep 06, 2011 at 10:00

Tuesday, Sep 06, 2011 at 10:00
Poeppels Corner has been moved many times over the past 120 years!!

Here is a brief summary lifted from Mt Dare's website:
"Augustus Poeppel started the QLD-SA Border Survey in 1878. Timber from the Waddi tree (Acacia Peuce) was used as mile posts.
The position of the first post was located in Lake Poeppel a few hundred metres from where is stands now, the reason for the moving of the post was because Poeppel?s surveying chain stretched resulting in an error of that distance of the present position.
Larry Wells was to re-survey the border from near Birdsville. He started in January 1884 and he relocated the peg in February close to where it is now.
The original Peg/Post was removed by Reg Sprigg during his survey of the Simpson Desert during the 1960's and replaced it with the present concrete post. The original was taken to Adelaide for preservation the post is now on display in the State Library of South Australia. Some of the original mile posts still stand from the Poeppel survey."

Then there's a longer version on the French Line website: LINK HERE

Cheers
Phil
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