Salesmen haven't changed in 40 years.

Submitted: Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 08:50
ThreadID: 88921 Views:3993 Replies:14 FollowUps:25
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I saw the car I'm interested in and rang the dealer.

Told him I didn't need the tray and he dropped the price $1555 down to $34000 on road.

Now I've already spoken to few other dealers and their price for a tray ranged around $2500.

Does anyone know the real cost of an aluminium tray for the Dmax?

I am going down to Sydney on Sunday and would like to do something constructive,,like buy a Dmax. However, I am getting a bit ticked off with the the attitude and high pressure techniques they still use.

I might try their aggressive attitude back at them.LOL
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Reply By: Shaker - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 08:59

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 08:59
If the tray is standard equipment, it is worth what the dealer wants to pay for it.
You can't value it at a spare parts price, remember the dealer has to buy it & keep it in stock until he can find a buyer for it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 09:06

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 09:06
Shaker

That makes sense thankyou.

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Follow Up By: Madfisher - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 20:06

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 20:06
I reckon he has quoted you wholesale price for it. Good luck, one reason why I prefer to buy private if possible.
Cheers Pete
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:23

Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:23
As you would expect, why would he pay full retail for it?
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 09:20

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 09:20
Visiting different dealers "face to face" trying to get a better price is a waste of your time IMHO. What I have found best is go to one dealer, work out EXACTLY what you want (model, engine, auto/man, tray, country suspension?, any options, required deleivery date etc...). From there, fax every dealer around with your EXACT requirments and get their best price. No need for you, or the salesman, to waste their time.

I always allow the dealer I visted a few extra $$$ to take into aco bleep the time I spent with them. I appreciate someone as to pay for the salesmans time and am prepared to do that, if they also offer the vehicle at a reasonable price.

Trying to get aggresive with any saleman rarely works. They do this job every day and are far more experienced in giving attitude :) Be polite and simply be prepared to walk away - you are the one with the money in the pocket so no need to have your blood pressure raised.

Cheers

Captain
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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 09:32

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 09:32
Captain
Good advice, although I must confess I couldn't do the aggressive thing,, its not my style I normally thank people for their time and walk away.

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Follow Up By: Alan S (WA) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:35

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:35
BooBoo

I agree what Captain says and when you select the dealer pick one you are happy with, not just because you are close to them. You will have a realtionship with them for a period of time following the purchase. Buying a car from a dealer and having it serviced by the same dealer is a good way of getting a higher trade in, as long you are trading it with the same dealer.

Dont forget that even if they are higher priced than the others you can always let them know what price you want to pay, the worst they will do is say no.

Another way is when negotiating on price is that they are often more flexible on accesories. I have managed to get the total price low by having the dealer add accesories. If your going to buy a ARB bullbar, get them to price it as well, they may do it at cost to get the sale. Get them to throw in things that you might buy later, dash mats, floor mats etc. Look at the total packaged price.

If you want to have a go at getting a discount have in mind what you want and what you would settle for, i.e Ask for 5% but be prepared to settle if they only offer 2%.

My job is spending others people money on major capital equipment. A few years ago I kept a record of average discounts obtained and came up with the number of 4% so i now use this as a target.

Alan
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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:49

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:49
Well Captain

I have taken your advice and sent 4 emails to dealers and am now awaiting replys.

With those and the original dealer I will hopefully have 5 quotes comming in.

I will let you know the results.

Alan, if they are a bit tricky about price I'll start talking accessories.

As Captain says its my money I'm playing with.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 06:01

Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 06:01
Captain's advice is spot on.

The only thing I would add is wait till just before the end of the month/ quarter/ year. That's when deals get cut. You have to find a dealer and/or sales person who needs to make up his numbers.
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Reply By: Member Andys Adventures - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 09:54

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 09:54
Hi Boo Boo, I have just bought a new Triton cab chassis with no tray and went to my local dealer. He gave me a price of $34,000 with no extras, so I went down to the Central Coast and got a price from the dealer their. I told him that the local dealer was robbing me so he gave me a quote with ALL extras including diff lockers for $32,000. I told him I would not hold him to the quote, so he made it as low as possible without loosing. (NO Profit). Went back to local car dealer and told him to match it, or I'll go elsewhere. He matched the price, now have new 4x4 cab chassis with all extras for $32,000. Beat them down, play one against the other, I do it every time I buy a new car.

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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:52

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:52
Andy

Hopefully Captains method will produse similar results.
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:05

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:05
Andy

You should have given your good money to the dealer who earned it, not the one who tried to trick you
CJ
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Follow Up By: Penchy - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:30

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:30
+1 CJ
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:41

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:41
I live in a small town and try to keep my money in it. I agree with you, but the other yard was just too far away(365klm) form me, and having a camping pod put on it from another supplier in my home town would have made it hard for the car yard to get it registered, eg: weight ticket. But I did get a kick out of seeing the salesman's face when he read the other quote, he turned a bit of a white colour, jaw dropped and sweet appearing on his forehead. Oh since then the car has arrived late and he has thrown in a set of seat covers to keep me happy. Hope he made a beer out of this sale.

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Follow Up By: Penchy - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 18:18

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 18:18
Really? White, jaw dropped? He wouldnt have accepted it if he wasn't making any money out of it. For all you know he may still be laughing all the way to the bank.
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 05:04

Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 05:04
Well Penchy, He didn't at first, he had to go to the sales manager to get the OK. After a lot of number crunching he agreed . If you can get a Triton 4x4 cab chas with ASTC ,wide wheel pack, sports seats, window tinting, tow bar, factory diff lockers, seat covers and registration(NSW) all for $32,000 and it's not a demo, Let me know where it is, I need another one. By the way I do expect them to make something out of it, after all it is a car yard. But instead of being $34,000 before the ASTC, wide wheel pack, sports seats, window tinting, tow bar, factory diff lockers, seat covers, I think he lost quite a bit on the sale. I know which bank is laughing, mine.

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Follow Up By: Crackles - Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 09:34

Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 09:34
Going to get approval from the manager is the oldest trick in the book. The salesman would have already done the numbers and known what his bottom line was before he left the room. I'm sure they do it to make the buyer feel like there is no margin left & are giving the car away. I've had the car price drop a further $1400 from the first time he went out to get approval. Bet he just went out & made a coffee to let me sweat:-) That's not to say you didn't get a good deal Andy but be asured they made their money.
Cheers Craig.........
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Reply By: edwin - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 10:02

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 10:02
try telling them that your also looking at a colorado and can get one much cheaper,they dropped the price quite a bit when i was looking but still couldnt beat the colorado price so i went that way instead
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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:54

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:54
Edwin

I actually looked at two Colorados at seperate dealer ships and both had surface rust on different parts of the chassis.

Was not impress, especially when one bloke told me it was normal!

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Reply By: Member - Tezza Qld - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 12:46

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 12:46
A large amount of aluminium trays are manufactured by MMM Holdings in Brisbane.

When I bought my ute I didn't want the tray Nissan offered and had MMM custom build one.
After arguing with the Nissan dealer the purchase price was reduced by $2000.
The new tray cost me $1700
MMM Holdings sell to the public but a call to them would give you a good indication of tray price. Beware that there are different qualities in trays. My Nissan has a heavy duty and the extrusions on the underside are about 40 mm apart.

On my ford, the factory tray, made by MMM has extrusions every 100mm apart and is therefore lighter in construction.
The other consideration is do you want a straight headbord, a cropped headboard or round bar.

Just make sure you compare apples with apples
MMM Holdings phone number is 07 3807533
I know there are other manufactures around but have only dealt with MMM.
Hope this helps

Cheers Teza

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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:59

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 13:59
Thanks Teza

The reason I don't want the tray is I'm putting a one piece pod/canopy on the back and it does not need a tray to sit on.

Having said that some of the trays I have seen in the caryards are very ordinary, built to a price and you get what you pay for.

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Reply By: lori - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 12:54

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 12:54
When we were looking to purchase the prado last year we went to the local dealership, who had what we wanted in stock but would only allow us to test drive it around the block with her in the car and then used high pressure tactics to get us to commit to the sale and straight up gave us a massive 'discount' which she said would leave her sales manager shaking his head - the only thing that left us shaking our head was the bad acting by the sales lady and her sales manager (yes, we could tell that you didnt think that the discount was WOW)

We then went to our car broker and got him to broker us a deal that got us $10k off rrp and included tinting, car mats, light protectors and a couple of other things.

As we are using hire purchase with this car, the bank was the one that paid for the broker's services.

Strangely enough, when the local dealerhip contacted us regarding the purchase we let her know we were getting it elsewhere, for how much and what was included. She was willing to match this deal but we let her know that after our dealings with her and her attitude towards us test driving we would rather make the 2 hour round trip to deal with another dealership.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 14:04

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 14:04
Lori
I have bought 4 Toyotas from a dealer in Quirindi nsw and if the hilux was siutable I would go back to him in a flash.

No high pressure, great service and after sale service.

It's a pleasure to do business with them.



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Reply By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 14:37

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 14:37
As cunning as dunny rats.

The car dealers have not sent me a quote, instead they have inviter ime in to test drive the car and allow them the opportunity to show why the isuzu is better than their competitors.

They also need to ask a number of questions to make sure they can offer me the best deal.

For goodness sake it's obvious I think the isuzu is better than their competitors otherwise I would not be asking for a quote.

I'll tell them I have driven my mates dmax so I don't need a test drive.

I'll then ask why do they need to ask questions when I have told them what I want.

This is fun!
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 14:53

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 14:53
Anyway good luck with it all, I just went through what your going through 4 months ago and have just got the vehicle, still getting the pod put on. Hope to see you on the track. Cheers Andy

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Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 14:55

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 14:55
Possibly the best way to deal with that situation is to keep your reply very simple. Maybe something like...

“Please forward your quote by (time), if you are interested in quoting , otherwise we will be going with one of the quotes already received from your competitors. I won’t be negotiating on price, please quote your best price in the first instance”.

Good luck with it...
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Follow Up By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 15:14

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 15:14
G'day Boo Boo, I agree with Landy.

Just tell them to treat your letter like any other corporate letter and give a quote and delivery date as stated on your initial enquiry.

Without sales, they won't stay in business, and you want to give them a chance to stay in business.

cheers

Dave
'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 15:49

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 15:49
I had replied before I received your comments Landy, but I did state I only had a short time in Sydney, had already test driven a dmax, was already interested in a dmax and therefore didn't need to know how good a dmax was compared to the competitors and I am only able to visit one dealer etc.

Perhaps not as good as your suggestion but I'll keep you informed.
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Reply By: The Bigfella - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 15:29

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 15:29
I love buying cars.
The first thing I say to the salesman is:- "I am here to buy a car and not for you to sell me one".

Makes them think I can tell you.

I don't buy many these days as I am a very happy Terracan owner but with my comment above don't use a smart arse manner - just be polite and it works most of the time.

The Bigfella
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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 15:52

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 15:52
Bigfella

I like it, I'm sure I'll get to use that line.

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Reply By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 16:25

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 16:25
I'm sitting here doing the paper work for our tax teturn and got a bit bored with it.

So I went into the Isuzu showroom and found the bit where you can get pricing, and low and behold the pricing will change depending on the suburb you are in.

Scone is cheaper then Campbelltown and the tray price will also change.

Scone $36408 $1729 Campbelltown $36572 $2029 Thats for a business.

The $36408 is without a tray so with a tray $38237, This looks like full retail without on road costs.

Oh well back to the paper work, almost beer o'clock.

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Follow Up By: Member - Michael P (QLD) - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 16:58

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 16:58
BooBoo,
Can you wait a couple of weeks?
Walk into a dealer the 2nd last or last day of the month, when the dealership is looking at the bottom line on the months sales target. That is when you will get the best possible price, unless of course if they have had a bumper month & are at 250% of budget. Not very likely in the current climate.
Just pick a silly figure make the offer pull your cheque book or credit card out and stare the salesman down.
I always buy big ticket items at that time & better still 28/29th June.
Mike
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Reply By: Puma1 - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:41

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:41
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Foul Language Rule .

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Reply By: Crackles - Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:54

Friday, Sep 09, 2011 at 17:54
Salesmen haven't changed in 40 years because the customers haven't changed either. Clearly there must be many that just pay full RRP or they wouldn't play the game like they do. In general there appears to be about a 20% profit margin on most cars although this would vary between brands & depend on exchanges rates, availability, sales insentives etc. I normally look at the recommended retail price of the car & subtract 15% to work out what I'd expect to be the best possible price. I then find several dealers that have the car in stock or have unsold cars on order & play them off against each other working towards that 15%. You must let them know that you are ready to buy today & have priced elsewhere but after that they will chase you with offers. My last new car dropped $5000 over the time I had lunch at the pub & ended up buying on the phone from a dealer I'd never met.
Also remember assesories cost dealers very little so negotiate a discount on them as well or better still have them thrown in with the deal. The fact your dealer only dropped the tray price $1500 probably indicates that's all it cost him.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:53

Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 10:53
Customers probably haven't changed, they probably still wind back their odometers, remove accessories after valuation & drop off their trade-ins with a stuffed battery out of their boat!
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Reply By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:42

Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:42
OK

I have received 3 replies.

1. Initial enquiry over the phone $34000 w/o tray driveaway.

2. By email $38000 w/o tray driveaway. However would consider an offer as he had two and was prepared to sell either!!!!!! Remember I asked for a quote and his best offer.

3.By email $33777 w/o tray driveaway.

I am waiting for one more quote which I expect will come on Monday morning.

I believe two of the quotes are not bad, but I am going to ask for a tow bar and see what happens. I should have asked for it as part of the quote I know, but did not think off it.
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Reply By: Ray 3 - Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 13:17

Saturday, Sep 10, 2011 at 13:17
The problem is, if we push them too hard we have a few more 'Rick Damellian's' and less competition to bargain with.
I usually buy with about 3 online requests and then judge on price, service and attitude.
I recently purchased a new Landcruiser and was quoted $1500 less by another dealer, the salesperson I bought from had been in touch over the past 10 or 12 weeks when my enquiry was originally on the new Prado which wasn't in stock for 6 weeks, he emailed me all updates and the latest reports together with what was available and when.
At the end of the day, when the price was officially released on the PRADO, I decided to switch to the bigger Cruiser and stuck with him.
This is where the cream rises to the surface...I told him when placing the order by email that even though I had a cheaper quote, i would buy from him for the reasons noted above. His response was not just a "thank you very much", he said that he would go and talk to the boss to see if he could match that price...he got back to me with a, yes he would.
Not only that he delivered the vehicle to me from Castle Hill some 40 kilometres away, that is service and civility that cannot be beaten.
Incidentally, I rang him 5 weeks later and purchasesd a new Yaris for my wife...no questions asked, it was delvered as well.
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Reply By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Thursday, Sep 15, 2011 at 16:51

Thursday, Sep 15, 2011 at 16:51
G'day all

Well I finally bought my new toy on Monday. The Dmax will look good when every thing is put on.

Final deal was 34K on road plus towbar and wiring, bonnet protector, mats and a full tank of fuel.

The down side is my daughter will be the first to drive it as we will be in Bundaberg.

AnswerID: 465101

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