Two batterys must be the same??

What's the general concensus with installing 2 auxilliary batterys- in parallel- of different storage capacitys?? Say a 90aH and a 110aH.
Some die hards claim they must be 'identiclal'- even down to consecutive batch numbers !!
Cheers J&D
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Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 12:59

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 12:59
When installing batteries together in the one circuit it is ideal to have the same size, age & type to avoid one taking more charge than the other or a failing battery dragging the other down. This can be demonstrated particually with 24 volt systems on trucks where one batt drops a cell so you replace that one only to have the other fail a month later.
When you say the auxiiiary batts should be the same, that statement could also be extended to to the starting battery as well as it's in the same circuit too. Of course there are smart charges that can compensate for the differences, how successful they are it's hard to tell.
Must be the same........No.
Ideally the same..........Yes.
Consecutive batch numbers Well that's just anal.
Cheers Craig.................
AnswerID: 464710

Reply By: TerraFirma - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 13:40

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 13:40
If the batteries are of similar type and age, for example both AGM however 90AH and 110AH then you won't have an issue.
AnswerID: 464713

Reply By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 13:46

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 13:46
Hi J&D,

you can wire them in parallel no probs, as long as they're of the same chemistry.
To find out whether they're (still) compatible, charge one after another to 100% SOC, and check the o/c voltage 24 hours after each one came off the charger.
As long as the difference between the two isn't greater than 0.1~0.2V, there's no problem whatsoever.

There's a little bit of truth in the 'must be same age' statement, in that an older battery is more likely to suffer a shorted cell, in which case the other battery slowly gets discharged to 11V.


@ Craig,

the batteries in parallel, even if of different capacity won't take in charge at different rates (relative to their capacity of course), because this is SOC dependent, which is equal as long as they stay wired in parallel for discharging.
The bottom line is, they will always show equal SOC, meaning they charge/discharge in exactly the same amount of time.

Your 24V example isn't relevant, because this is for a series configuration - different kettle of fish.
The reason why the second battery goes tits up soon is that it gets overcharged quickly due to uneven charging voltage distribution between the two 12V blocks, if one suffers a shorted cell.
And overcharging is way more damaging than discharging to 11V like in a parallel configuration, with a shorted cell.

cheers, Peter
AnswerID: 464714

Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 14:09

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 14:09
"the batteries in parallel, even if of different capacity won't take in charge at different rates"
But would it be fair to say batteries of different contruction (Deep cycle/AGM/starter) will charge at different rates Pete?
Cheers Craig.......
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Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 14:43

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 14:43
Craig,

in any circuit with two or more current paths, the current splits inversely proportional to the electrical resistance in each path.
Same thing goes for two or more batteries wired in parallel.
The one with the lower internal resistance (relative to its capacity) will take in or give off charge at the faster rate.

So the answer is yes, parameters like plate thickness, active material granularity, all govern the internal resistance hence the rate at which charge is being absorbed or given off.

And yes, the general concensus is that there's no general concensus on this :)

cheers, Peter
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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:19

Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:19
Crackles posted:
"the batteries in parallel, even if of different capacity won't take in charge at different rates"
But would it be fair to say batteries of different contruction (Deep cycle/AGM/starter) will charge at different rates Pete?
Cheers Craig


Hi Craig
This is how those two facts become confusing
YES, an AGM will absorb A charge faster than a standards wet cell deep cycle just as a wet cell starter will absorb the charge faster than a wet cell deep cycle
IF each is charged on its own.
But it is the LEVEL of charge that is held equal ,when in parallel .
ONE cannot CHARGE [%wise] more than the other as each has the same voltage level applied

The same applies to discharge, each will loose the same% of their capacity on discharging

I hope that makes sense



Peter
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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:44

Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:44
Hi Craig

RE:"When installing batteries together in the one circuit it is ideal to have the same size, age & type to avoid one taking more charge than the other or a failing battery dragging the other down. This can be demonstrated particually with 24 volt systems on trucks where one batt drops a cell so you replace that one only to have the other fail a month later. end quote }

IN parallel:
Type can be more critical IF they have different charging requirements
such as max charge voltage or float voltage.
SIZE is not critical
Age can be a problem if the older battery has high internal leakage but this can developin relateively new batteries too
This will slowly pull both batteries down to the level of the faulty one
But unless left to continue long term will be unlikely to do any permanent damage to thev newer one
Peter's [of BW]suggestion of a regular check should find this problem & this SHOULD be done if battery capacity does not seem to be normal

Batteries in series :
Type & size is important as different types/sizes will charge @ different rates to a different % of charge
One can easily be over charged while the other may be left undercharged,
which also means one can be overdischarged
Age & resultant loss in capacity can cause similar effects to different sizes

If one developes a shorted cell the other will be overcharged
Overcharging can kill the good battery fast

Peter
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Reply By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 14:09

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 14:09
J&D, There is no "general consensus" on this subject !!!!



Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 464716

Reply By: B1B2 - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 19:31

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 19:31
G'day Wombat,
I have connected a small 7AH battery in parallel with my 100ah aux battery for years. I use this small battery for running campfire lights, tent or 12v shower. I did put a fuse on the positive in case my alternator got enthusiastic. I don't think they were the same brand or batch number. I also connect a 7ah with my 2x 100ah caravan batteries.


Cheers,
Bill
AnswerID: 464734

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 21:42

Sunday, Sep 11, 2011 at 21:42
Hi Bill

Although that is an extreme , all will charge happily together
just so long as they are in good condition.
Peter's [BW] check occassionaly will verify that

However I would definately have a fuse in the pos of the smaller battery to protect against fire or explosion IF an internal short circuit developed

Size? the smallest that will carry the max load on that battery 10amp max ,5amp if it holds
Peter
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Reply By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 13:47

Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 13:47
There is frequent confusion in expressions in this argument.

When saying "charge or discharge at different rates" the interpretation of "rate" comes into question. Does it mean the 'same current' or the 'same coulombs' or the 'same ampere-hours' or the 'same %SOC, State of Charge'?

With two batteries of the same chemistry type in parallel, they will take/supply current (Amps) in proportion to their internal resistance which is a function of their Ah size and condition. However the voltage of each battery remains identical due to the interconnection they will each maintain a closely similar State of Charge whether charging or discharging. The relative size of the batteries is of no consequence. If one is twice the size of the other it may contain twice the energy but still at the same State of Charge. Like two water tanks connected together, they will fill and empty together even though one may be supplying more litres than the other. When one is 'half-full' so will the other be 'half-full' etc.

Due to battery condition there may be arguably small differences in the above description but it is essentially correct as stated.

So yes, it is acceptable to connect different capacity batteries together but they should be of the same 'chemistry', Lead-Acid, Gel, Calcium, etc as each has differing charge-voltage characteristics. In my own vehicle I have a normal 'flooded lead-acid' cranking battery in parallel with (via a voltage sensitive isolator) a 'flooded lead-acid' deep-cycle battery, in permanent parallel with a 'absorbed lead-acid; deep-cycle battery. They all get along fine.

J&D, some "diehards" find some specification and build a rationalisation on it even though they are not competent to do so.

Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 464795

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 19:20

Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 19:20
Just do it - what is the worst that can happen????
AnswerID: 464830

Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 19:27

Monday, Sep 12, 2011 at 19:27
Errr.......Collision of protons? Creation of black hole? Start of an endless forum thread? LOL

Cheers
Allan

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