Its all interesting with the common rail injection systems!!

The problem is aftermarket filters are often used and some have a very poor micron rating. This has been the same for years and years, cheaper filters often mean substandard product. The thing is, the non common rail engines dont have the same tolerances, so the fuel is burnt and all seems ok.

But is that a good thing still? Well i say yes, as long as it gets you home. But it is still probably doing damage somewhere.

I own a BT50, 3 litre common rail. Its had Ryco filters used on it since the genuine one was removed, at 20,000kms. Now has just over 50,000kms and never a problem. Filled up at some dodgy joints too.

I am extra weary though, but i always have been with all my cars. I have no problem as i believe the Ryco filters are good enough. The filter that fits my vehicle was a special release by Ryco to match the micron rating of genuine.

I wouldnt be using the cheaper brands though. I also have a Mr Filter funnel, but have yet to use it with this car. If ever remote travelling then i would use it every fill for safety sakes. Regardless of vehicle.

Muntoo......I wouldn't worry too much about the fuel in remote locations...I did a 20000km trip that included some of the most out of the way fuelling points in Aus (eg Punmu, Well 33, Warburton etc) and no sign of dirty/contaminated fuel. Since then I must've run over a Chinaman or something as I've had to have the tank removed and flushed and everything upsteam of the pump flushed due to contaminated fuel from reputable servos in large urban centres. All up I have paid about $1800 - $1200 of this for the 2 episodes that happened in that last 6 weeks. All was water contamination and I mean serious water contamination. The sample that the mechanic took from the most recent episode was at least 20% water. One fuel company paid up for the cleanup but I'm still fighting with the other. The first episode I didn't bother trying to get the costs back as I couldn't find the receipt for the purchase. The fuel company the did pay up also had me sign off on a confidentiality agreement so can't name them.

Hi ther Muntoo, not just after market filters causing problems its the genuine filters as well. I know of a few with common rail and after refueling with crap fuel has cost them a fortune in parts and labour mainly parts, eg injector costing $1000 each x4 of them plus $7000 to get a new pump all due to crappy fuel. What I would like to know as mentioned above why is the factory fuel filters allowing this crap to come through, to me its not doing its job its meant to do and that is stop the crap coming through and yet Toyota (only one I know of sure there are others) will not cover it under warranty. Ok they didnt supply the crap fuel but then their factory filters didnt do the job either so to me they should hold some responsability to the issue as well as the fuel supplier. Probably wrong but this is mine opinion anyway...........

G'day Kimba10 - from my personal experience the vast majority of problems are caused by water in the fuel. Unfortunately most OEM filters only have a small water trap capacity and none of the filter material will prevent water passing through. This is happening even in the trucking community and it is taking a bit of time for filter manufacturers to come up with real solutions. I think the best solution would be if service station had some sort of 'final filter' on the bowser that not only filtered out the crap but also separated out the water BEFORE is got in out tanks.

the point about the servos haveing better and bigger filteration is all good but it would cost a fortune to install something that "A" conforms to the extream tight regulations for servos and "B" is capable of handling the hugh flow rate and filter at the same time ............ and it would require the servo to pay for the running costs of it in the way of replacement filters and labour......... poeple a bitterly complaining about the cost of fuel now, imagine the complaints if it went up MORE to cover those cost, and yes some out there that dont have a clue will assume the servo shoud be able to adsorb the cost, they cant and most probally will close up ..... BP own half of them now, monopoly is not a good thing for us users..
Think about it, it takes your car say 3 hours to filter and use that same fuel that took just a min to put in, no "normal" filteration system is going to be able to handle that volume...........
The vehicle manufacturers have built new engines that require better fuel and finer filteration yet have not up-graded the filteration system to match them, as history shows the buyers will simply move over to a more reliable vehicle and they will have no other choice than to install better filteration systems ... or lose sales, blaming other sources only lasts for so long and if you have a brand new cruiser and it has fuel trouble not covered under warrenty, $10,000 later and you wont be to keen on buying another one will you ???

Cheers
Joe

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point Joe....I am of the firm opinion that when I buy diesel and pay for diesel, I don't expect to be getting crap and water in it. It leave the refinery clean... it should be stored in clean tanks and it should be delivered to the tank in my vehicles clean.....I don't expect to be paying upwards of $1.50 per litre for particulate matter or water!!

It might give you a little extra protection re water Phil but I'm guessing not too much. For the most part OEM filters have a very small water trap and indeed water can pass through the filter medium (unless it is the sort of filter screen that Mr Funnel uses). I've fitted Water Watch just upstream of the OEM filter on my Nissan and is has saved me a few dollars recently. It is alarmed and really lets you know when there's too much water in the fuel. If you read a few post up this thread I've had more than my fair share of water contamination problems and thankfully Water Watch has prevented anything getting through to the OEM filter let alone to the pump and beyond.

strange how the utes run a canister pre filter and the wagons dont

Patrol22,

The water trap is not small on the Toyota main filter - the filter material is about an inch thick at the top and has 4 inches of clear space below where water can collect and trigger off the water sensor and light. It lacks an audible warning though.

The prefilter has a volume of about 500mls, and the main filter must be about 400mls before water can touch the filter medium. There's also got a water drain plug in the bottom. Its a pretty good system - just lacks a glass bowl, but glass bowls can break, which I guess is why Toyota don't use it. If I only had a single filter I'd probably do same as you and fit a water separator - especially if I had a common rail.

Davoe, I guess they put the extra filter into the utes and troopies because they are more likely to get abused by people who work in the mining industry :-))

Cheers
phil

Wow that is some holding capacity for water.....how big are those suckers. All in all they have the capacity to hold almost a litre of water....so each filter would be equal to or bigger than half a milk carton? They would be around the same size as a Mack truck then are they?

Huh, so you think i'm telling porkys.............

To solve your curiosity, I just got the tape measure out:
Main filter has a calculated volume of 756mls
Prefilter has a calculated volume of 450mls.

I could pour some water in my fuel line and see when it coughs!

Nope not accusing you of fibbing at all....just exclaming that they are big filters as I've not seen the yota ones. But wondering how much of that volume is diesel and how much water. The OEM filter in my ute (Nissan) holds about a litre overall capacity but the water trap is small - only about 50 mls. In the aftermarket water watch I have fitted it is usually about 500mls of diesel but this can get displaced by water and the alarm will sound once there is about 100 mls visible in the glass bowl. Now I know about the yota filter I just might check one out and see if it is suited to an retro fit to my ute.

G/Day Dave, On the machine its every service. 250hrs. But that is pushing about 60ltrs a day through it. ( comercial 4cyl TD Isuzu motor)


Cheers Axle.

CRD's cost at least half a fortune to fix if there are any real problems, so 2 filters is a good safeguard for earthmoving machinery.
I guess there is more chance of contaminants in that environment.
cheers
Dave

Axle.
I read avery interesting post on AULRO about this problem with CR diesels.
It would seem that the new systems are all designed to last the calculated service life of that particular engine:
ie: if (per se) the engine life is calculated at 10000 hrs. then all ancilliary parts such as injectors, coolant pump, alternator etc. are designed for that life without any intervention.
The post related to research by Cummins on fuel filtration systems which would allow the injector service life to be achieved without replacement.
Cummins concern seems to be that adequate fuel filtration is not being provided by the end user of their engines.
A very interesting topic, I for instance, have 2 diesel vehicles, one indirect injection, the other turbo direct injection, both with in excess of 250,000km. without any service to the injectors. But I also do regular filter changes.
Both running economically, easy starting and smoke free.
mike

i think overall Ocolone, that the modern motor in anything is far superior than anything before it, with improved oils and filters, Tolerances down to nothing Its as you say water ,dust, condensation, are the issues that have to be monitered a lot closer, I often think that manufacturers don't get on to obvious problem issues quick enough!. Water in fuel seems to be no1 issue at the moment, condensation and dust together plays havoc with sensors and wiring., I often think things need to be sealed up a lot more, wiring and connections need to be a lot heavier to cope with the likes of australian conditions.

Cheers Axle.