Car black box/ accident recorder.

I just had an interesting discussion with a police officer regarding these black box cameras.

They said that people can have them in their car/truck whatever, but they cannot be use in a court,,,, unless the person being filmed gives their permission to be filmed.

In reality who would give permission if they had done something wrong. For example caused a crash.

You've got to wonder whether it's worth buying one.

If the police officer is right, and I believe they are, then although the truckies can show people doing something wrong, the film can't be used if the person does not give their permission.

I have been using a cheapie one ($82) for a while BooBoo.

More or less as a practical test to see if they are really useful.

Mine is fitted with a 16gb SD card and it will record 4 hours onto the card in segments which overright each other so as you always have the last 4 hours.

The device claims to record up to 1200 X 720 pixels but the underlying camera doesn't have the resolution to read a number plate of a car immediatly in front of you.

This isn't necessarily a big problem as it has proved good enough for me (with persistence) to track someone down and has been well worth the dollars.

Generally it has been useful for 4wding as well, a couple of days ago I put up a post about issues with liability in taking some people across a creek , and I played it back before posting to get facts correct , and while noisy I can clearly hear myself telling others to be careful and it also recorded their radio reply - didn't mention that at the time.

The device begins recording whenever the igintion goes on , and mine is called a HD DVR

For real use of the video though I would recommend and will be getting a true HD (1920X1080) version.

Hypothetical question.

Suppose you driving with one of these devices recording and make a mistake which results in an accident.

Can the other driver (or the police) demand that you hand over the camera?

Or under these circumstances would you quickly remove and conceal the camera before it gets noticed?

joe99

Regardless of what is admsissable as evidence in what court and under what situations.

In many situations an irrefutable record of what went on can form that basis for a further investigation.
The video then is used as a pointer and leverage for further investigation and gathering of hard evidence.

As for vehicle accidents.
The insurance companies are not bound by the laws of evidence, untill such times as the case comes to court.
The vast majority of insurance cases never come to court.

If there is a dispute over a traffic, accident and it becomes a case of "he says she says", then someone comes up with ANY decent evidence, that is a game changer.

Almost 12 months ago today, I got whacked by a woman in a subaru, trying to overtake me, while I was doing a perfectly legal U turn.
Fortunately I had the presence of mind to take a few photograps.
The other side were being obstructive,( like it took 9 months) till my insurance company handed over the photograps, which proved that my account was accurate......the other side immediately caved........to say my insurance company was pleased with me is an underestatement.
I got my $800 excess back.

As far as these video devices.
Resolution is everything, particularly when a camera is not specificaly focused on one particlar thing.
I doubt that some of these products will have good resolution or for that matter light performance.
You can go the full bottle on this reasonably easily.
there are full blown 4 channel surveylance recorders designed to run on 12 volts, they will take up to 4 cameras, so you wire up your reversing cameras too.

not only would they be good for a traffic situation, but they would give a pretty decent level of surveylance at the boat ramp or the like....they can be run 24/7 if needed.

but remember, any evidence is valuable where otherwise there would be none.

cheers

I never saw the program but I have wondered ho long it would take to have technology introduces so the police can just plug into a port on the vehicle and get the speeds and GPS position and issue a fine later like speed cameras. Or taking it a bit further wirelessly transmitting it like happens now with the tokens on toll ways.
The technology it available as the information can be read off the engine management system and all that is needed is a GPS. This is now done with AIS but is not stored.
I believe trucking companies use this technology to monitor drivers performance.
The mind boggles with what can happen with technology.

I didn't see the program but do they have a forward and reverse looking camera? Or do you just mount it anywhere you want.
Might be better to get recorded vision of whats happening behind you like tailgaters and such?

Just a thought

wizzer

Although my original question was "has anyone used these cameras" it appears that the legality of them has arouse interest to say the least.

I have just received a call from the police officer and they say it is illegal to have this type of camera in any vehicle.

I forget the Act but it is Section 8 of the Surveillance Act or similar.

Now just remember don't shoot the messenger.

hi booboo
i didnt see the tv show but recently found this advert and website for a security camera system
what you use for would be upto the buyer but the ad reads wel
l----- no connections with the company
check it out on
www.outdoorcameras.com.au
cheers barry

This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Inappropriate Rule .

Forum Moderation Team

In a civil matter, the burden of proof is lesser than a criminal matter; the balance of probabilities versus beyond all reasonable doubt.

What may be sufficient proof for a civil matter may not meet the more exacting proof of a criminal matter.

In a civil matter, “this is some footage filmed from my inboard camera“ becomes a good bluff or negotiation piece to get an out of Court settlement and even if it ends in Court, burden of proof is lesser and therefore may be used to “prove” the case

In a Criminal matter, all the evidence must be tested to a totally different level.
“How easy is to change the date stamp on the recording? Was this camera fixed to your car at the time of the alleged offence? Can it be moved between cars? Was the footage filmed from your car? What proof do you have of this? Whilst the image shows the car, how many white Camry’s exist? We accept that this was the accused’s car, what proof do you have that this was driven by the accused at the time?

The cops may use the footage to investigate further, but whether it is used in Court is an entirely different matter.

What do you think of this car tracker?

http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/gps-car-tracker/

Takes pictures, records sound, tracks vehicle with option to disable vehicle if desired. Looks good to prevent theft or find one's vehicle again.

Do you think it'll work okay in Australia? Make sure the SIM card is compatible (only 2G, 2.5G, 2.75G SIM cards work)

Police have been using these forms of cameras for years. Even made tv shows with them in use. Every time a flashing red and blue light is turned on, so is the camera. Or so I have been told by some officers I know.

I have been told by a solictor it is illegal to film another without their knowledge, hence warning signs in shops, houses etc. If you where filming something else, and you inadvertantly caught another thing, that is allowed. For example filming your kid at a football match and a fight breaks out which can be caught on the same vision by moving. (No stopping and starting of recording)
By this arguement, you could state that you were filming your trip to work, school, holidays, etc. If an accident occurs, it was only taped by accident.

That was me they interviewed,.... The Prado driver in Sydney (not the Falcon guy in Newcastle) I took them for a drive and showed how it recorded and downloaded.

I have been using a 'blackbox' for around 18 months. It all started when I went looking for something to record some of the interesting trials we were driving.
I started with one of the Ebay $50- ones, and although they do a good job or recording the detail is just not there, so the one I have now is a DR400G from
Dashcam These are sensational (no connection in any way) I achieve around 6 hours of High Deffinition video before it records over itself.

I treat this exactly the same way I treat my vehicle insurance. It is set up, I don't touch it..... It is just there in case I ever need it. I have never had the need to use it to-date, and hope I never do.

Now in relation to legalities....... I am an ex Police Officer..... and I can assure you that in the case where there are differing versions of an event, a court may or may not accept this as evidence (The rules of evidence are very strict), but I know that the Police and possibly the insurance company would be very keen to see irrefutable proof of exactly what happened...... I will continue to use mine.