Man Injured in Van Explosion

Holy Moley...! Amazing pictures....

I like the link immmediatly after the last picture

"Ask a Toyota Mechanic" - A Toyota Mechanic Will Answer Now!

Wonder what he would ask? lol....

Yes, forgot to mention that, they're not the first or last unfortunately.

Acetylene, LPG, hydrogen or even petrol vapour........ not a lot of difference. They are all very dangerous in a confined space.
But I still observe people carrying LPG within their vehicles, the most recent was a family on the Simpson. I shuddered!

We've carried two 1kg companion bottles for over thirty years in the back of every 4wd we've owned, (they have been retested several times), they travel in one of the old style solid sided milk crates along with two billies. With a timber lid which doubles as a jackbase we've never had a gas leak, the bottles are always upright and I'm anal about turning them off and it is impossible for anything to bump the taps on.
That being said we have no LPG in the Oka as all appliances are either diesel or electric 12/240v powered with solar supplying all the electricity.
Carrying them on roofracks or externally is far more dangerous in my opinion.
Apart from work vehicles, motorhomes, camper bodies and caravans with specifically designed gas boxes which vent externally I've never seen any 4wd with a correctly fitted enclosure to carry gas bottles. There would be thousands doing as I have done in the past that carry them in the load area of a vehicle.

Hi Bantam

The biggest risk in 4wding is the rollover - hence LPG gas bottles on roof are a bad idea.

Carrying them secured inside is far safter.

We here of these accidents but when you look at the figures they are very rare compared to daily rollover toll.

In a rollover the likleyhood of a roof carried gas bottle being ruptured in very low.
Then if it is damaged or ruptuerd the gas will vent to the aptmosphere.

besides a gass bottle carried externally is a clear and visable risk factor that can bee seen and dealt with, if the gas bottle is inside, rescuers will be ignorant of the risk or the origin of any leaking gas.

If however you have a gass bottle inside during a rollover, particularly if it is not positivly restraind the posibility of getting the valve bumped or the kneck broken off is pretty damn good......the gas will then be confined inside the cabin.

The posibility of a leak remains

There is no case where it is safer to carry a gas bottle inside the vehicle than outside..asuming the bottle is properly secured and in a safe place, like not on the rear bumper.

you say you have been carrying gass bottles inside for a long time,and never had an incident ( luck has not run out yet)...how many times have you rolled your vehicle over in that time.

cheers

Come on Bantam , you don't really believe the likely of damage to
a bottle on the roof in a rollover is less do you ?

In one case the bottle is inside a protected saftey cage and the other
its in the most exposed place.

When the car rolls over its near certain roof objects will be smashed
up all over the place.

I notice you reffered to neck damge from an unsecured bottle inside the car -
but reverted to "bottle rupture" for the roof mounted case.

Have a look at how people mount them on the roof - usually valve up, waiting
to be knocked of , gas escapes into sparks from roof on road.
Not a good look, whereas gas escaping into a car doesn't have a primary
ignition soucre in most cases.

Merely having the weight of gas bottles on the car roof rasies your C of G and hence increases your chance of rollover.

Tansporting the bottle upright is exactly how it should be done.

As far as sparks from the roofrack.......Oh come on..even if the bottle is ruptured or leaks on the roof the gas is not confined and will burn rather than explode.

As for ignition sources inside the car...there are plenty, every single switch contact...most of the recent vehicle/gas explosions have been triggered by central locking systems.
And that is without a smoker in the car.


In a rollover, a 10Kg gass bottle is more likly to leave a big dent in the turret rather than be crushed its self, ( every tried to cut up a gas bottle, they are pretty tough) or more likly to be riped off and thrown free.

All the larger gass bottles have a protective steel ring arround the valve and outlet.
If carried on the roof with the opening in the hoop facing rearward the chances of the valve being impacted are very low.

Inside a vehicle however, the chanaces of something rubbing on or striking the valve are pretty good articularly if the packing is sloppy.

remember ya very rarely will be in trouble when you do 1 thing wrong..its the 2 or 3 mistakes that will get ya ass fried.

Mistake 1 is carrying a gas bottle inside the car, mistake 2 is failing to make sure no leaks occur, mistake 3 is leaving the gass bottle in the car with the windows wound up....mistake 4 BOOM

Mistake 4 could be, using the central locking, lighting up a ciggy as you open the door.

cheers

Leaky gass bottle on roof rack...including mistakes 3 and 4...most likly result...no gass for the barby.

cheers

If you had worked in the petrochemical and natural gas industries for as many years as I have you would be very well aware that the most significant risk of explosion is where gases or vapours are present in a confined space other than a containment designed to store those vapours. Leakage to atmosphere can produce fire but that can be handled whereas ignition of vapour within a confined space has the potential for violent explosion incurring structural damage and bodily injury.

These are NOT my thoughts or suppositions. They are the established factors which govern the design and operation of industrial undertakings.

To propose that any flammable gas is more safely carried within a closed vehicle than on the outside reveals an ignorance of the engineering and physics involved.

Those few people who have suffered an explosion within their vehicles would have believed, in their ignorance, that it was safe to do so. They possibly would say that they were very careful and "had done it for years without incident". But for whatever reasons their moment of truth arrived!

To summarise, to carry LPG or any flammable gas within a closed vehicle is foolhardy at the very least.

Your still avioding the key points Bantam - when your car rolls the weakess point of your standard 9kg gas bottle is now upside down between the roof and the road so its certain to be damaged as it then begins its scraping along the road in the most violent type of accident.

And you made it more likely be rasing the C of G !

I think we will have to agree to travel in seperate cars.

Robin, please do me a really big favour.......... don't park next to me!

Hi Allan

The statement about free gas in an enclosed space e.g. car is by itself correct of course.

But this is how people get it wrong - by stating half the problem and not addressing the whole issue.

This issue is that of the car being in an accident, the car is designed to protect all inside from the effects of the accident and hence and damage internally is much less.

It is simply much less likely for something inside the saftey cocoon to be damaged.

As already stated the 4wds are the most likely to be in the worst form of accident.


P.S. Don't worry Alan, We are very high on real saftey here and I wouldn't carry a 9kg container anway , (stick to liitle disposables here).

as fas as LPG, acetylene and petrol all being the same....Um sorru NO...yes they are all dangerous in confined spaces, but acetylene makes a much much bigger bang than the others

You got that right Bantam.
Acetylene is about as dangerous as a product can get & most people think it is like LPG.
I just copied this paragraph from Wikipedia.
Note: Acetylene cylinders contain an inert packing material and are filled with a solvent such as acetone or dimethylformamide. The acetylene is pumped into the cylinder and it dissolves in the solvent. When the cylinder is opened the acetylene comes back out of solution, much like a carbonated beverage bubbles when opened. This is a workaround to acetylene's property to explode when pressurized above 200 kPa or liquified.

It can explode if filled or discharged too fast as well.

Thats part of the mixup in this thread also Fatso - LPG as opposed to the typical work related Acetylene in the actual accident , is so safe to carry in a car that probably 1 million Australians will do so before the end of this holiday period without there ever being a cylinder rupture.

Some people simply wont be told.

The risk inside the vehicle is that relativly small amounts of gass confined inside a vehicle can explode with fatal implications.




cheers