Fuel Economy...& throttle control....

Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 11:47
ThreadID: 90621 Views:2887 Replies:5 FollowUps:22
This Thread has been Archived
This subject is often mulled over on EO...an article in a recent 4WD mag on this had
the usual stuff on reducing fuel use. But one part I found interesting....
A bloke called Hans Tholstrup..who will be familiar to some, was able to reduce the
fuel used on a 70 Km circuit, in a diesel & petrol powered 4by by 25% over the
other two testers..& was within 5 min of the same time.
Now ,the best bit is that the testers, with Hans on board were able to reduce their
consumption by 15%..by following his advice on a repeat circuit.
No other method suggested by the mag to reduce use came up with any result
better than about 5 %...eg..weight loss..removing o/h racks & so on.
So it appears the single biggest way to use less fuel is by better throttle control.
Some may suggest reduced speed would win, & I agree, but as this was a timed test,
this wasnt evaluated.
But the two combined would seem to offer significant reductions.......oldbaz.
ps..any advice on getting a V6 Jack under 15L/100 (towing) will
be welcomed....:))).
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 12:34

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 12:34
Throttle controll has always been the best improver of economy.

No doubt they will have chosen a couple of "charlies" with lousy driving habits to make the figures look good... but the fact remains.

If you are continuoulsy on and off the throttle and on the brakes you will be wasting fuel....big time

Every time you brake you waste energy you have had to generate with the throttle.

I see people every day, who continue to accelerate up to red lights, sit fair up the clacker of the car in front and are always in a hurry.
Of course they will always be on the brakes, and just as much on the accelerator......alll wasted fuel.

Old Hans knows his stuff..he used to compete in economy runs against the like of Peter Feret and the like...back in the 70's and 80s when they were trendy..and he did well.

The secret ( its no secret) is to sit well back and accelerate only as much as is required to get the job done and no more.

Be on the accelerator early and lightly, keep a consistent throttle opening, button off as soon as things slow down in front and brake as little as possible.

hard acceleration is achieved by pushing more fuel into the engine..it makes more power but is less efficient.
the more preasure you place on your drive train by accelerating the more friction is generated and the more losses occur.

Do everything smoothly and you will save fuel and wear and tear.

AND top speed will mostly be irrelivent in the argument...getting up to that speed smoothly and getting down from it with minimum braking is what matters.

And you will probably pull up right behind the other bloke in the next town.

And ya fuel bills will be lower and you will have brakes that work when you need them.

cheers
AnswerID: 472427

Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 13:08

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 13:08
You make some good points there that I try to follow.
One other point made was a 35% increase in fuel use in the petrol powered job at
Freeway speeds...with the Cruise Control ...ON. Who can afford that?......oldbaz.
0
FollowupID: 747236

Follow Up By: Member - matt d (SA) - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 13:49

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 13:49
Totally Agree with you Bantam!!
Diesels work better without "Mashing" the Loud Pedal!!
0
FollowupID: 747243

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 16:32

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 16:32
Oldbaz - a 35% increase in consumption using cruise control on freeways sounds, well, incredible. Does anyone have that experience with theirs in real life?
0
FollowupID: 747255

Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 16:50

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 16:50
Bazooka, I agree..sounds high. I dont know anything about CC, except that it seems
fatal to those poor truckies that nod off under the influence of it. I'm not a fan, but
never had it anyway. Others will know more......oldbaz.
0
FollowupID: 747259

Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 17:34

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 17:34
Matt said.
Diesels work better without "Mashing" the Loud Pedal!!

Mate I have a 4.2td Patrol and their is no loud pedal .
With 2 ton of van behind it just plods along quite happily at 93 kph all day hyundai. I don't even bother to race push bikes of the lights.

Got to agree that going easy on the go pedal does help
the fuel tanks. And the water temp.

As for cuise control, I use mine as much as possible and love the comfort of just pointing the beast. Do not use it in traffic or hilly country. As for freeways where we like to go there is no such thing....Please explain....Snigger.

Dodg.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 747265

Follow Up By: Member - matt d (SA) - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 18:32

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 18:32
Lucky You Dodger, my Troopie has a 1HZ under the Bonnet, so you should have more Power than me! ;)

As yourself would know driving a "Slug", you gotta plan your Drive; as in you need to make sure you got plenty of run up "if" you chose to pass the Vehicle infront of you, or Dropping back a gear to keep some form of momentum going to get up that Hill.

I love it, if I wanna go quick i get on my Bike! ;)
0
FollowupID: 747270

Follow Up By: Brian Purdue - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 22:47

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 22:47
Bantam. I was beginning to think that I was the only one who remembered that. I was taught very early to not only watch the vehicle in front of me but also the one in front of that. Harsh acceleration and fierce braking are the enemies of economy. Hard on fuel, brakes, tyres, etc. Over the years I have tried to be as economical as possible. I positively HATE bogs and always walk forward if in doubt. A ten minute walk often saves a 10 hour dig. I recall an article, "You cannot get there from here". It is easier to find another route rather that slug your guts out working. Work is a four letter word and the worst one I know,happy travelling.
0
FollowupID: 747308

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:26

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:26
I was always taught that smoothness was everything.

Even when you want full throttle application the smoother you can do it the more you will get out of the fuel you are putting in.

If you are driving an underpowered car, you need to be smooth and efficient, if you are driving an over powered car you need to be smooth and efficient' heavily loaded, lightly loaded, big, small, petrol, diesel.

Smooth will get the job done better every time.

Smooth acceleration, smooth braking, smooth steering and smooth gear changes.

Not driving smooth is waste........by waste I mean something that could have been valuable to you is lost forever with no result.......fuel, tyre rubber, brake pads, traction, vehicle life.

cheers
0
FollowupID: 747314

Reply By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 14:05

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 14:05
Arrhh an ideal world.... wouldn't it be great!

Another Allianz moment.

Any one can drive for efficiency but in the real world is it practical.... no.

Unless you want to annoy every other road user behind you.

Classic examples...
Travelling at 80Kph in a 100Kph zone.
Slowing down and rolling up to traffic lights.
Taking of slowly from a stop.
Slowing down prematurely to avoid using brakes.
Coasting up hills.

Most who drive like these examples usually have all the time in the world and are inconsiderate to other road users... with a mind set that they own the road and can do what they want.

Drive sensibly and what your vehicle uses it uses.

AnswerID: 472430

Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 15:43

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 15:43
Hi olcoolone, You described me in your examples, but for the next statement you made I would disagree. We all own the road even my child owns the road (we pay our taxes) as for how we use them that's a different story.
Example: many years ago their were open speed zones in the outback, go as fast as you can, but was it safe NO, that's why it was removed and 110klm is the fastest you can go now. Just because the speed zone is eg: 100 don't mean you have to travel that fast, it means that is the fastest you can go. So why do you say I inconsiderate if i'm only doing 80, I might consider that to be a safe speed for my car with the load I'm carrying. Slowing down and rolling up to lights, what's wrong with that, better rolling than stopped. Taking of slowly from a stop, do you need to lay rubber and still have to stop at the next set of lights.
Andy

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 747251

Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 16:47

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 16:47
Andy,
when they posted the speed limit in the Territory at 130kph from open the death rate went up markedly and kept rising.

They always are on about speed, speed and more speed and that is the case for many young fellas after their balls drop. I will give an example, North of Mackay between Yalbaroo and Bloomsbury they had a spate of deaths. Their fix was to resurface the road, I had driven all sorts of vehicles over that section of road from heavy to light and found nothing wrong with it. Getting to the point once it was resurfaced there were no more accidents.

I do drive like you and don't rush up to red lights or accelerate hard so I can get the next red light. Changing lanes is the go for many. 10 lane changes so they only end up a couple of cars in front and cause braking havoc behind them.

Hands up those who come up behind a semi at lights and change lanes or cut in front of him so they can be away quickly only to find that the same semi is up their clacker 5 sets of lights later. You even see some truck operators take off like there is no tomorrow, cab rearing up and 10 gear changes before the other side of the intersection. If I was their boss they wouldn't have a job.

Have a good one,
RA.



0
FollowupID: 747257

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:46

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:46
I have to agree that the 80kph in a 100Kmh zone is a pisser.

BUT
You are suposed to slow down approching traffic lights...red, green or yelow.......accelerate up to a set of traffic lights in any other state than just turned green and you may well fail a driving test.

Every responsible driver treats every green traffic light as if it is about to turn yellow........the traffic code has been changed and now you are expected to stop at a yellow light if it is possible to do so safely.

Taking off slowly from a stop is exactly what you are suposed to do again failing to do so may fail a driving test...BUT failing to make reasonable progress and achieve reasonable speed may also help fail a driving test.

In a heavy vehicle you are expected to minimise the use of brakes and you definitely want to keep the vehicle rolling if at all possible rather than stop.

And yess it may well be best practice to back off when cresting hills, particularly in a heavy vehicle.

I know lots of people who winge about such things..truth is they are just impatient and don't know their road rules...AND I will probaly pull up right behind them at the next set of lights and the one after.

Yes I was once young a foolish and in a hurry to get everywhere......driving a diesel mellows a man...and I get there no slower.

cheers
0
FollowupID: 747315

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:27

Wednesday, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:27
Official statistics show a drop of 5.9% in fatalities and 5.1% in fatal crashes in the Territory over the last 5 years Rockape, despite increasing numbers on the roads. How much of that could be put down to speed limits is an ENTIRELY different matter. Better roads, better cars (airbags etc), maybe even better educated drivers (?), different weather......have probably all played a part.
0
FollowupID: 747341

Follow Up By: Rockape - Wednesday, Dec 14, 2011 at 16:00

Wednesday, Dec 14, 2011 at 16:00
Bazooka,
there may have been a decrease over the last 4 years but have a look at the 3 years after the 130kph limit was enforced. 5.9% decrease doesn't sound much after the record deaths when the limit was enforced. That 5.9% decrease gets them no where near back to the pre 2006 toll.

Have a look at a few quotes.

In 2006, the year the 130km/h limit was introduced, 44 people died on NT roads. In 2007 57 were killed in road accidents, and in 2008 a total of 75 motorists perished.

On January 1st 2007 the NT for the first time ever got speed limits on our open highways. 2007 turned out to be the worst road toll in 10 years. 2008 is already at 30. If you extrapolate from 30, you would get the worst toll ever!!

NT's 2008 toll-to-date, is now 58% higher than its 2007 decade-high result.

RA.
0
FollowupID: 747358

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Dec 14, 2011 at 21:16

Wednesday, Dec 14, 2011 at 21:16
Rockape
It seems that both 2008 and 2009 were statistical anomalies. In any case there could have been many different contributors to the sudden increases or decreases.
2006 44
2007 57
2008 75
2009 31
2010 50
2011 41 (to 11 Dec)
Just out of interest how many roads in the NT would currently be considered safe to drive at say 140kph?
0
FollowupID: 747383

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:39

Thursday, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:39
Bazooka,

On safe roads at 140kph at that speed, not many and that goes for all the other states. There are many roads posted for roadtrains and b-doubles use that shouldn't be when you look at the condition of them. I know they wanted to introduce the unlimited speed on the Stuart Highway. As always if something happened you had to prove you were doing they right thing and travelling at a speed to suit the road conditions. That is the case whether the posted speed is 100 or 40.

Recent survey of truck drivers in Owner Driver mag found the thing that the most annoying thing was the condition of the roads.


Recent accident north of Clermont where a lady and her two children died passing a triple roadtrain with cattle. I was told the Prado lost control on the bitumin to dirt verge and the result was terrible for all concerned. Roadtrain driver ran back to find the lady in the car and then saw the baby seat with no child in it. He looked down the road to see the two children lying there.

Even the hardened Ambo's and fireies were sickened by it.

RA.
0
FollowupID: 747407

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:59

Thursday, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:59
Yes, we forget how heartbreaking it is for the emergency workers and others involved almost every day. A sobering reminder as we come to the holiday period. Safe travels everyone!
0
FollowupID: 747412

Reply By: Member - Rob D (NSW) - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 14:17

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 14:17
From High School Physics; energy expended is equal to force times distance. The distance remains the same but the force increases dramatically with speed, so you would expect the consumption to increase dramatically with speed.

See Car Aerodynamics for interesting information on car aerodynamics.

See Caravan Aerodynamics for You Tube video of caravan aerodynamics. There are two parts to this.
If you relax at a faster pace you can get more relaxation in for a given time.
Regards Rob

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 472432

Follow Up By: Member - Keith P (NSW) - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 16:52

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 16:52
I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above...EXCEPT...when pulling out to overtake...BOOT IT !
I drive a truck (semi) for a living ...and the number of times that the road has run out ...or that oncoming vehicle got just a bit to close for the vehicles overtaking myself is now uncountable. Now at the end of an overtaking lane...if I,m still ahead (vehicle ahead or in front has right of way) I just indicate and start merging regardless. if the car overtaking wont get a move on and get past quickly...then in the end its his / her problem.Any of the members on here will know what I,m talking about if they tow a caravan etc...as this also happens to them as well I would think. Just thortless other road users who just dont get into it and overtake safely. And for those who feel they are breaking the speed limit accelarating to overtake..well dont do it in the first place.

OK RANT OVER..... I,ll get ready n go to work and do battle with all the idiot drivers out there tryin to kill me ...and dont succeed due years of road warefare survival

Cheers Keith
Nothin is ever the same once I own it ...........

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 747260

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:09

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:09
Oh hell yeh....he who hesitates is lost........ but even here you can save yourself.

so you are behind someone slower and you want to pass........don't sit right up their @r$e. ease back a couple of hundred meters

Take note of the passing lane XXXkm ahead signs and read your odometer....count it back........when you are a few hundred meters out start building up speed.....so that when the passing lane opens up you are right up at minimum safe folowing distance and near passing speed.

At least then you will have a hope of getting past, with some solid throttle application.


soo often I see people sit right up a slower vehicles @r$e, and try to pass from that position.

Ya cant see and even full throttle application wont get the job done in lots of situations.

It helps to make your intention clear too.

I see so many people fail to acelerate early enough and hard enough.

In some of the passing lanes on the way up to NQ, unless you are right on the ball you wont get the job done safely at any speed.

cheers
0
FollowupID: 747312

Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:22

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 23:22
Keith,

You're so goddam RIGHT!

But not only do they not try to minimise the time in the wrong lane, when they finally get past after doing a row of knitting and having a cup of tea while talking on the phone - anything but DRIVE - they cut in and throw stones and sh*t all over everything.

Why the hell can't they gun it, get it over and done with and then put some space between me and them before merging back in?

I find I have to drive for them as well as me. I watch them come up in the mirror, and if I reckon they're not going to make it before the overtaking lane runs out I make the decision for them before they get alongside. Nicely, of course.

Cheers



FrankP

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 747313

Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 18:04

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 18:04
There is something they are not telling Oldbaz and that is that their is a sweet spot for fuel efficentcy out of any engine and further that this sweet spot shifts a little as it is load dependant,

You can actually drive faster under specific conditions and get the engine into a more efficent range and actually reduce fuel use (the speed though tends to be sub 85 and wind effects.).

If you find this for your car you will improve -> roughly 1700 - 2000 rpm for typical petrol engines.

Once apon a time you may remember the economy guages on some cars (holdens) which isn't the full answer part is part thereof.
Julian , the guy from Silicon chip wrote some quite comprehensive articles about this - on the web somewhere , think from autospeed ?



AnswerID: 472446

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 18:05

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 18:05
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_111510/article.html?popularArticle
0
FollowupID: 747267

Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 20:56

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 20:56
Robin,
If people look at the prior post "Brunswick diesel and fuel economy" they will se the sweet spot of an old 6.5l clunker diesel.

I posted my consumption figures around that sweet spot.

Delivered 7 or 8 Patrol 3l crd diesels between Mackay/Townsville, Townsville/Mackay and returned figures on all vehicles between 9.9l/100k and 10.1l/100k. 1 person + luggage.

RA.




0
FollowupID: 747287

Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Wednesday, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:56

Wednesday, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:56
Thanks Robin..for some thought related to the post. Some responses beggar belief
& I wont dignify them by responding.cheers.....oldbaz.
0
FollowupID: 747339

Reply By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 22:39

Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 at 22:39
Driving efficiently does not automaticaly mean you are driving slowly.

Mashing the accelerator so you can get up to speed on the highway is pretty pointless...unless you are trying to enter a high speed traffic stream.

Most engines and vehicle have sweet spots ..some have one some have several.

If the engine torque and power curves are matched with the gearing properly the sweet spots will be close to the legal highway speeds.

Usually the most efficient highway speed coresponds to the peak in the torque curve.

My old 808 waggon liked about 95KPH...but it liked 120KPH better...ah those were the days.

As far as cruse controll being less efficient....I believe that is a gross over generalisation.

A well designed cruse controll will maintain a consistent throttle opening and moderate throttle increases.

A well designed cruse controll in a vehicle with ample power and lightly loaded will return excelent fuel economy results on good open road......the cruse controll in the wifes RAV does an excelent job....I don't think I could do better.

A poorly designed cruse controll in a heavily loaded vehicle running on hilly terain will do quite badly....but you should driving manually then anyway.

As far as people doing 80KPH on the highway.......most regular highway users will agree that they are an inconsiderate menace....ya just have to hear the abuse on channel 40.

If your rig will not tow safely at 100KPH on the highway, it should not be on the road.

Sure you might be slowed down by hills and such, but you should be able to maintain at least 90 to 95KPH and ya 100KPH with a bit of luck and good terain, on reasonable open road.
These at that days lots of people will happily sit behind you till a good clear pasing oportunity presents

If you are driving at 80KPH on the open highway simply to save fuel.....you are nothing but inconsiderate, your saving is at the much greater cost of others in time and fuel.

Have some consideration for the heavy vehicle driver who at 100KPH would happily roll on up that long hill and top the crest efficiently at arround 90KPH in top gear.
But because he is stuck behind you doing 80KPH, he has lose momentum to lug up that hill, and then have to do arround 6 to 10 gear changes and crest that hill doing 60 to 70KPH......this then holds up everybody behind.....and the whole BULL$#@& magnifies as you get back further in the line.

Traveling at 80KPH might be saving you $5 to $10 a tank full, but you are probaly costing every truckie behind you $5 to $10 a hill and pissing off dozens of other highway users every day.

Perhaps you should have baught a smaller van.

cheers


AnswerID: 472476

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (9)