Strange dual battery problem

Hi all,

Just wondering if someone can shed some light on a strange problem with my dual battery set up.
Everything seems to be running fine, charge going where it needs go and a good voltages, but the aux battery doesn't seem to be holding charge.
It constantly sits around 11.41 volts and my charge meter is constantly saying half full or flat (Calibre battery box)
It's a brand new (3 weeks old) 100ah Century Deep Cycle N70T.

I've run the system for the past week with no accessories running, but the charge is not climbing at all.
Also, I drive the vehicle two hours a day - 1hr trip to work, 1hr return.

The fridge I run is:
http://www.solarenergystore.com.au/index.php/80l-portable-fridge-freezer.html

Vehicle is a 2003 Toyota Hilux, 3.0TD.

Voltages I have picked up are:

Main batttery:
Engine off - 13.19v
Enging on - 14.01v

Solenoid:
Main side - 14.01v
Aux side - 11.42v

Aux battery:
Engine on - 11.41v
Engine off - 11.41v

Anyone have any ideas on what could be going on here?
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Athol W - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:53

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:53
Timla
Assuming the voltages that you have quoted across the solenoid are with the engine running then the solenoid is not doing its job.

Is this a voltage sensitive unit, or is it activated from the accessories or ignition. Firstly check that it is recieving the appropriate signal voltage, and if so then replace the solenoid. There should be no more than about 0.2v when measured across the solenoid battery posts.

Regards
Athol
AnswerID: 473508

Follow Up By: Timla - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:55

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:55
Sorry, I should have said.
The voltages taken across the solenoid are with the engine running.
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FollowupID: 748353

Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:58

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:58
That's ok, see Athol's post above, no more than 0.2V if the solenoid switch is engaged (running engine). But your's has 2.6V across it, so it's either not receiving the signal from the ignition switch, or it's stuffed.

cheers, Peter
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FollowupID: 748354

Follow Up By: gbc - Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 07:09

Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 07:09
Or the little earth line might need a tweak. Look for the simple things first. No earth no solenoid.
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FollowupID: 748376

Follow Up By: drivesafe - Saturday, Dec 31, 2011 at 11:29

Saturday, Dec 31, 2011 at 11:29
Sorry but that is TOTALLY incorrect.

A voltage drop as little as 0.02v is unacceptable and a voltage drop of 0.2v would be untenable and if any heavy current load was applied, with in a minute or two, the isolator would literally glow in the dark.
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FollowupID: 748509

Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Saturday, Dec 31, 2011 at 12:59

Saturday, Dec 31, 2011 at 12:59
Hello drivesafe,


that's an interesting observation.
A set of contacts like the ones in solenoid switches or relays do actually have a small electrical resistance in the low current region.
The contact material is found to be in the solid state here.
But once the contact current ramps up, localised heating at the point of contact causes some contact material to melt until a new current/resistance equilibrium is formed. During the melting process the contact resistance decreases (negative region of dE/dI). So yes, you're right at high currents the initial voltage drop above a couple of hundred millivolts causes contact point melting, and a new, lower level of voltage drop establishes after a few seconds during the liquid to solid transition.
That's why solenoids have strong spring loading on the contacts to break open the sometimes welded shut contacts when the coil is de-energised.

But since the OP reports longer lasting voltage drop exceeding 2V, there's another underlying problem.
Either the coil isn't being energised, or the contacts are burned out (or dirty if that's a possibility).

cheers, Peter
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FollowupID: 748519

Reply By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:55

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:55
Seems like your isolation solenoid switch is stuffed.
What type is it? Voltage controlled, or the one with the ignition control wire?

cheers, Peter
AnswerID: 473509

Reply By: 120scruiser (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:55

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:55
I think you will find that your alternator doesn't have enough output to charge the auxilary battery. It is common for the later model electronic vehicles. You might have to look at a DCDC charger like the CTek or try ABR sidewinder, They have a thingy you plug in to up the output voltage of the alternator. Either that or the new battery is a dudd.
AnswerID: 473510

Reply By: Simon Curly - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:58

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 20:58
I would suggest you remove the auxiliary and put it on a charger, If it charges then looks like you have a problem with the charge controller/solenoid.
cheers Simon
AnswerID: 473512

Reply By: Fatso - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 21:04

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 21:04
I don't claim to know anything about electronics, but I would say your solenoid is not working.
When you read the aux side of the solenoid you are just getting a reading that is the same as your aux battery.
Try bypassing the solenoid & see what happens.
AnswerID: 473513

Reply By: SDG - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 21:31

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 21:31
Mine died recently as well. One test I did was to check the current at the terminal/clamp/cable on the second battery without it being connected to the battery. No power was in mine. Sourcing it back found no power coming out of solenoid.



On a similar note.

If the solinoid dies while out travelling, are there any remedies to getting the aux battery charged? I thought about joining the cables that were joined to the solinoid but not sure if this would over load alternator. Also thought about keeping the old battery isolators of the manual sort as a backup.
AnswerID: 473515

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 21:51

Wednesday, Dec 28, 2011 at 21:51
OP FWIW I'll add my vote for a stuffed solinoid.

SDG What I have is a "smart solinoid" between the cranking and deep cycle batteries and a manual isolator so that if the solinoid dies out bush it is just a matter of putting the key into the manual isolator and turning it on.
The only downside is to remember to isolate the batteries when parked up or you may flatten both cranker and DS.


Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 748360

Follow Up By: Fatso - Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 19:25

Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 19:25
I've got a couple of cheats ways to charge your aux battery when your solenoid fails SDG.
If you have bolt on terminals on your solenoid just join the 2 batteries by putting both wires together on one pole of your solenoid.
Or if that is out of your league try connecting the 2 positive terminals of your batteries with a jumper lead.
Or if that doesn't suit you, swap your batteries around & put your aux battery in where your start battery goes & jump start the car off your normal start battery.

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FollowupID: 748412

Reply By: ABR - SIDEWINDER - Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 13:34

Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 13:34
Hi Tim

Email me a photo of the solenoid I will show you by email how to test it.

Regards

Derek from ABR

AnswerID: 473549

Follow Up By: SDG - Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 21:02

Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 21:02
Derek.
I just bought one of your solenoids off ebay. Arrived today. Put in already. Easy to do and works well. Should have looked here first.
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FollowupID: 748421

Reply By: Timla - Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 20:29

Thursday, Dec 29, 2011 at 20:29



There is two images of the unit.
Going by the posts here and on anther forum, I'm leaning towards the unit being shagged.

A friend has a new, unused (vehicle upgrade so the kit became redundant) Projecta Kit that I've managed to snap up on the cheap!

Thanks to everyone for the help!
AnswerID: 473572

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