servo drive offs

Some servos will call the police if you move your car at all. Friends had it happen to them. They moved their car over to the air to check the tyre pressure while his wife went in to pay. Next thing the cops turn up. He had to prove he was going to pay before the cops turned up and didn't just send his wife in after they turned up. Police told him not to move his vehicle until he has paid in future. Problem is if you move your vehicle out of camera range it is hard to prove you then paid for it.
I rarely move my car now, after I went to move and the attendant announced over the PA not to move it or he'll call the police.
I hate it when your waiting for someone and they are in the shop looking for stuff to buy. More and more servos are getting more strict about not moving cars and paying before filling up.

Josh

Barry I think there is no legal ramification but I do see it being very annoying to the console operator..... as illegal as it is some servo owners force the console operator to pay for any drive offs..... he see's you move off and what is going through his mind.

I think people have stop being nice and courteous to others in some situations, if some one in front of me at a servo has to go and pay for their fuel then that's how it is and it's caused no inconvenience to me..... what choice do I have..... getting annoyed with the person in front is no good for my heart LOL.

The other problem is if you have a discrepancy with the price and amount of fuel you purchased it is only your word against the console operator..... you have moved away from the pump and it may of been cleared for the person behind you.

We had a annoying new customer (who won't be our customer) come and pick up his car with his wife..... his wife had a spare set of keys (don't know why) and she jumped in the car and took off then 30 seconds later he walked in.... my wife turned to him and said "is that your partner who took off in your car" his reply was "yeah that's my wife"..... my wife turned to him and said "it would of been nice to come and see us first"...... my wife's first thoughts was someone is stealing a car..... what would of happened if she took off and we still had the car in pieces or undrivable.

Seriously I don't think your doing anyone favors... but I'm sure it makes you feel good, most people who are nice and courteous to 1 person usually inconvenience 10 other.

I invariably have to move my Navara after filling with diesel to then get LPG for my other tank. No problems so far even though the two bowsers are on opposite sides of the servo.

The problem starts with the lack of staff in the servos on busy days.

When fuel is cheap, its not uncommon to stand in a queue of 5 or 6 people waiting to pay. In the meantime, the driveway is full of vehicles who have already filled up and it's courteous to move forward to let someone else get access to the pump.

I'd expect from a legal point of view, you can only be accused of stealing if you drive off their property. If they want us to wait in a long queue of customers, then its there problem if we move to allow others to fill.

Sorry, haven't posted recently BUT this is paranoia of the highest degree. (Probably not even worth posting IMHO). The coppers aren't that stupid to turn up at a servo, find you and the missus still there (NOT DRIVEN OFF) and either arrest or charge you. Come on folks, common sense here. Yes, it happens. The baddies drive away and do not pay, you on the other hand are there, card in hand and waiting to pay. If it says on the sign don't move till you pay THEN DON'T. Pay the money, buy your ice cream or whatever and keep going. The cops are not stupid and you are not goimg to be arrested.

Dave

It cant be illegal to move but i understand the console operator 's concern. 12 to 16 pumps to watch and people moving around the servo grounds.. I wouldn't like it if it was me.. Having said that, you couldnt pay me enough to do that job.. I take my hat of to them!! Michael

Hi folks, my first post for some years.

I did find this thread of interest and thought I might throw my rusty knowledge on the subject in the ring.

You mention that you are interested in the legal side of the circumstances you mentioned.

You can be "accused" of a drive off (stealing) but that doesn't make it an offence at law.

At law, the offence that would be considered is the criminal offence of theft. For a case to be successful at court the prosecution must prove the identity of the accused person and an "intent" by that person to permanently deprive the owner of the property (fuel).

This is typically proven in court by police and witnesses presenting evidence by way of either an admission by the accused or by circumstantial evidence.

Clearly you have no intent to steal the fuel when you move your vehicle and if asked if you intended to steal the fuel you would honestly be able deny any intent. Having made no admission, the only other evidence to consider is circumstantial evidence.

You would probably be aware that shop stealers are typically not apprehended until either they have gone past the checkout or outside the store. The shop stealer would have been seen in the store hiding the goods under their clothing, or similar. Waiting until they pass the point of payment without paying adds to the circumstantial evidence, but even this circumstantial evidence may not be sufficient to prove intent.

If you move your vehicle at a service station before paying you are legally doing nothing wrong, as long as you intend to make payment. If you remain on the property of the service station there is no circumstantial evidence to indicate that you have formed any intent to steal the fuel. In brief, there is no evidence to indicate an intent to steal the fuel.

I rest my case Your Worship, there is no case to answer, at law.

Remember that in a criminal case, such as theft, it is up to the prosecution to present sufficient evidence to the court to prove guilt "beyond reasonable doubt". In the case of moving a vehicle before paying for fuel I cannot see how a prosecution would ever be approved by the police to proceed to court and, even if it was approved to go to court, I couldn't see a Magistrate convicting anyone.

Disclaimer time: The above is a summary and fits most similar circumstances. There is case law that could be considered and possible specific offences of fuel drive offs in your jurisdiction that I am not aware of. As usual, seek professional legal advice.

So that might be the position at law. Like most incidents with the potential for confrontation, you would need to be mindful of what the normal or expected practice is. Any actions you take outside the norm leaves you open to being "accused" or confronted, but that doesn't make you guilty.

Hope that is helpful, or at least mildly entertaining on a Friday night.

Thanks Allan for your participation. It does make sense that if you have not left the compound you have not stolen.

I do feel for servo operators with this sort of theft becoming common.

What do we do? Well at home it is no problem, we just move the car if someone is waiting, then go in and sign the slate. When travelling, our F250 and caravan takes up a bit of room in the queue. As soon as i know the litres, i walk into the servo to pay, while he moves the vehicle to allow others access. If anyone came and told us not to, they'd probably be lynched by the three or four motorists waiting behind.

A few years ago at Halls Creek, we waited for the driver of the vehicle with trailer in front to fill, then go in and pay. After quite some time, he never returned, and his wife sitting in the passenger seat was copping the glares from the line of waiting motorists. Why doesn't she get out and move the vehicle, my husband said quietly as it was getting late and he was becoming impatient? She must have thought the same thing, as soon she got out, and as a semi-paraplegic started slowly staggering her way around the front of the car, when the driver turned up. He must have had a bad dose of Delhi-Belly or something. With an error then made when charging us, all in all we were delayed over an hour and had to find our campsite in the dark, not waiting to let down eight tyres when onto the dirt road, which had more consequences.

My nephew works for a Perth technology company that is setting up high tech. servos in India. The charging all works automatically - way way in front of any technology used in this country. I can't remember how it all works, but drive off thefts just can not occur. There is hope for the future.

Motherhen

Barry P
Never move your vehicle, till you pay.
I never do, no matter what !

That is common corteousy to the Console attendant, who needs to track the movement of vehicles vs pumps, at any servo, and not the drivers.
There is more than the person behind you to consider

It is getting to the stage that we will have to pay in advance, before we will be able to fill up, or at least hane over our credit cards, as security, just liike in most Motels.

I once had some moron at BP in Stawell, Vic, go off his head at me fo not moving my vehicle along so he could fill up. I can look after myself, so he got told.

Cheers
Bucky

I used to move to allow others to fill but got thoroughly abused by my local servo one day for doing it. So I dont do it anymore despite death stares from others. Dont use that servo anymore either - they could have handled it better given I was a regular and well known customer.

To be charged with stealing they have to prove intent to steal
Just moving your vechicle isnt intent to steal

I had an instance where I was filling with LPG and petrol. Because the pumps were so close to each other I filled both tanks at the same time. Next thing I know was a voice coming over the loud speaker that I was only allowed to fill one tank at a time from a person supposed to be the manager. I ignored the loud speaker message and went in to pay my bill where upon this manager confronted me. I told him that there was no sign stating that I could not use two pumps at the same time and that if he wished to speak to me speak to me face to face and not over the loud speaker system to which he became very irate. I complained to the servo operator about this man's manners, until then I did not know the man was the manager and the servo operator said that he was like that with everyone.
I complained to the servos owner regarding bad manners by the manager and have not seen him there since.

It all started when the servos and companies decided to sack all of the drive way attendants and become self service. I am totally against some suggestions that we should go in and pay before placing fuel in your car. As with all matters, because of the low life in all communities the good people are expected to make sacrifices. The criminals should be held accountable. Drive Offs are treated by the courts as a simple offence. There is no real deterrent. The offenders are criminals, they are stealing!
I do feel sorry for the small business owners, and at the end of the day, we all end up paying!
A few places in the Kimberley they require things prior to getting fuel. At Turkey Creek my wife had to go inside the shop and give them her license, then they turned the browser on and I was able to fill up. They were very nice and apologised but said they had been getting so many drive offs.
Stealing - Yes, you need to prove that the person had the intention to steal (state of mind). But as with shop stealing, you do not have to leave the building as long as the intent can be proved. (Asportation – example - removing the item from the sealed package and placing it inside your bag.)

There is no point in moving your vehicle before paying.

Very few service sations would have the ability to turn the pump on for the next vehicle in the queue, before accepting payment and cancelling the current transaction on the pump.

The only thing that annoys me is when some "brain dead idiot" orders a coffee and shops for their potato chips, bread, newspaper and chocolate before returning to their vehicle.

It makes me want to drop them on the spot. But then who would move their vehicle out of the way:-((

Knowing margins like I do, 1 drive off would probably cancel 8-10 paid for tanks of fuel at least. As a small business operator it would certainly get up your nose big time. Also, anyone operating a till is responsible for the cash in the till being equal to the registered takings. The register people have been known to pocket some of the takings as well :-) The business owner can be facing crooks from all sides of his operation including the government.
Running a small business is awesome fun :-)

I haven't moved my truck off, but have had people in front of me do it at local servo's near home, I have moved up and been unable to fill up until the other person had paid. Seems all the servo's near home won't zero/reset the pump until the person has paid for their fuel, good in the way that if you need/want to dispute your fuel you still have 'your' physical evidence on the pump, as apposed to the servo's record on their computer. Long story short, seems to defeat the purpose of moving up anyway.

Lachy

When we were in the US a few years ago, the fuel had to be paid for before the operator would turn on the pump to fill the car.
It was a standard procedure right down the West Coast, and was quite disconcerting at first but we got used to it eventually. The procedure we used was to hand $50 to the consol operator, go out and fill the car then return to collect the change. If you gave them a small amount, then that is all the fuel that you would get.
I don't remember how they kept track on who paid what amount at what pump, but they did and it worked quite well.


.

Hi All

We drove into the BP at Emerald on a Monday morning it was a very busy servo.

I queued behind this earth moving contractor who filled his vehicle and then proceeded to fill the tank on his traybody.

After he finished he moved his vehicle clear of the pump area and went into the shop.

I moved up to the pump and checked for the zero dollar / litres on the pump and started to fill our vehicle.

When I finished I went into pay.

There was a line of people waiting to pay, and I noticed the guy who fueled up ahead of me at the food counter.

When I got to the console operator I gave her the pump number and paid the bill with my eftpos card.

For some reason I didn't check the receipt until I got out side near our vehicle.

I compared it with the total dollars on the pump and I had been over charged by $145.

I went back in to the console operator and explained what happened, she was able to check the recent history on the pump and gave me a refund.

I pointed out the guy with the work truck who was still at the food counter and she called him over and made him pay for his fuel.

So it goes to show that you have to be vigilant at all times.

I was day dreaming and nearly got caught out.

Cheers

I only ever move up a little bit.. still in range of bowsers.

Hey Barry... Could your have a go at using sentences... Capitals and fullstops? It's really hard to read otherwise.

No offence intended. :-]]

All pumps at caltex and most fuel stations has a two zero system, its where you can put two ots of fuel on computer. this is called memory. you have to be on the ball in a servo, i know spent 3 years in a few, mainly caltex. and when people move it makes it harder to keep track, also you if you move and not on the ball you'll pay somebodies elses,

so moral of story is "STAY WHERE YOU ARE UNTIL YOU HAVE PAID FOR FUEL"

and stuff the queue. otherwise somebody has to pay, or get charged for theft.

simple i know. but people still move out of courtesy. don't please

Yes but dont you just love it when the servo is quite and some moron pulls up at the first available pump, when another pump is available in front.
When refilling work trucks I will move them up a bit if a semi is waiting behind as they block the whole servo anyway.
But the staff all know me anyway.
Cheers pete

Interesting responses.
It is just typical of how the fuel supply chain has gone to the pack ever since the federal government legislated to take away the restrictions which prevented the fuel retail to be dominated by the big companies.
I believe prior to this change fuel companies were restricted in how many servos they could own. Now Coles & Woolies dominate the market & the quality of service is deplorable.
The way the servos are treating their customers with contempt is amazing. What other business can treat a customer like some of you have mentioned & still stay in business. If I got treated like that I would spend my money elsewhere and if not able to I would give up buying fuel & take up some other means of getting around that didn't require me to deal with such a---holes.
At the end of the day we collectively as consumers who have the final say on demand are to blame for the slip in standards. We have been gullible enough to swallow this sh-t & come back for more.
Some think you are getting a better deal by waiting in line with your pathetic supermarket discount voucher. Fact is you are not. Coles & Woolies are hooking it in to you because we have totally disregarded the independent servo up the road thinking we are getting a better deal from the big 2. Now some have no choice because that independent & all of his mates are gone.
There was an article on TV some rears back where a Woolies servo outsold a small retailer down the road by 9 times on literage, even though the small retailer was cheaper.
That's the power of mass marketing.
When it comes to driving the fuel market it is a matter of" You bend over Woolies & Coles are driving".
Just get back in the queue & don't complain. You lost your chances by not supporting the independents.
That's my 2 bobs worth. Fuel in Cairns, where I live, is 10 c/l higher than Townsville. The reason is that Townsville has a more diversified retail chain & there is more competition. Cairns customers are too eager to supplier the big 2 & have driven the independents out. The few that are left can't afford to start a price war with them. They have become too big to deal with.
I won't buy fuel from Coles or Woolies. I buy from a retailer who gives me a better service than them. He also gives me a better price & a monthly account. I even get a Christmas card from them & the console operators know me. They are real people. Not nameless, faceless drones behind glass security screens.

Hi all
The method used in a lot of supermarket branded servos in Europe is to have multiple pumps but only one exit lane. This exit lane has a cash booth operator. You join the queue to pay as soon as you are finished fuelling. The servo is minimalist with no water, air or brush for your windows but very cheap fuel. Only sells fuel, nothing else, even oil has to be purchased in the supermarket. Similar to cheap airlines.
Does this sound familiar here? You get what you pay for and we have showed the servo owners we do not want to pay much so we will not get much in return.
I will be surprised if we do not soon adopt the prepay model for cash purchases, seeing more servos that have credit card readers on all pumps, and only open for cash purchases between 9 and 5. Happens other places!

I move anyway. If they want to call the cops they can. By then I'll have a receipt for payment and they can all waste their time.

The last time I got yelled at over the PA system, was because the console operator did not like me cleaning my windows. He told me (over PA ) that this was a servo, not a car wash. Being able to see is just as important as having fuel in the car.

BTW. There was no where else in the servo to move car to, to clean anywhere else.

Somehow doubt there is any offence on the statute books anywhere in Australia which deals with moving your vehicle before paying. As someone said it's an advisory. This sort of publicity doesn't help though:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-02/fuel-stealing/3614686

I move my truck whenever I think it's appropriate and haven't been chipped for doing so, ever - Sydney, Melb, my own large town or on the highway. Must have been lucky. Despite the boredom, poor pay and risk for servo till workers I've only ever encountered one who needed to find other work, and maybe he was just having a bad day.

It still has me wondering why Australian servo's don't follow the rule of USA, it's easy , pull up at the pump, go in and pay $50, go out and put in $50 worth of Gasoline, if it fills before the 50 bucks is in then you go back and get your change.

.

All this comes down to the short sighted, ignorant and plain cheap and nasty way that most service stations are designed.

They mostly still insist on laying out forcourts like they did under full service.

They put a pump with a specific type of fuel behind another with a differing type...frequently one pump in the line is actually doing anything.

At my local there is a diesel pump with an unleaded behind it..very inefficient.

If the service stations were laid out with a single row of pumps and a single lane entry & exit for the property, the whole issue of drive offs could be iliminated.

There are a few highway srvice ststions laid out like this.

Some service stations in japan you pull up to the single row of pumps, infront of you there is a tyre cutter........when you pay the tyre cutter retracts.

drop away barriers would be just as effective as tyre cutters.

there is no need to move because you are only occupying one single pump.

If there is a single lane entry & exit to the service station it can be more effectively surveyled by cameras., and controlled by boom gates, drop away barriers or the like.

Most sites this would be easily possible but the shop would need to be on the front or back of the block and not to the side.

A single line of pumps properly arranged gives nowhere to hide.


But, just like so many things, instaed of doing things properly these people would rather inconvieninece the customer or the staff and continue to complain about the drive offs.

cheers

I used to move off if someone was behind me. I think it's just simple good manners.

However, I've had a console operator almost commit 'hari kari' in front of me, thinking that I was going to do a runner. What with a 17 foot van behind, yeah right.

So I don't do it now, and I'll go to the driver behind me, apologise, explain the situation, and go & pay.

Speaking from experience as frequent viewer, well I was, of service station forecourt video's. I know why the operators can be leery. Usually the video tape is that old even expensive video enhancement won't bring much stuff up that is good enough for a court to see and believe, and how much is a tape?

The other thing is a lot of the times the video is not focused on the pumps, and when viewed you get a terrific view of the side a building, or concrete.

And I do believe that some servo owners will make the operator pay for runners. Even stolen motor vehicles.

my local servo and the servo at yalgoo have the best simplest system

you swipe your card, enter your pin then fuel up and just leave

no problems with spending a couple of hours in the dunny, or buying overpriced crap because all it has is all you need, a card swiper and fuel pumps

On the question, I guess it is well covered, intent to steal would need to be proven before you find yourself fronting the judiciary on a fraud charge...

But the thread had me asking the question, are we that time poor that the 3-5 minute wait, maybe even 10 minutes at times, is that big of a deal that we need to concern ourselves with it to this extent? Not worth stressing over too much I wouldn’t think...

few places I came accross in NT outback and nothern WA wouldnt turn the pump on until you prepaid for the fuel and if you wanted to fill you had to leave your licence or credit card at the counter until you paid.

thanks for all replies so far .spoke to a policeman a few days ago and his reply was if you did not go outside the perimeter or boundary of the servo before paying for fuel you should not be in trouble ,its only if you go past the boundary line without paying its called stealing eg a drive off bye barry