servo drive offs

Submitted: Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 21:46
ThreadID: 91202 Views:7179 Replies:33 FollowUps:45
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when you fill your vehicle with fuel and then move up a little to let somebody in behind you before paying can you be accused of a drive off eg stealing fuel ;or can you move to just inside the boundary of the servo before paying and not be accused of stealing fuel ;anybody know what the legal side of this is ;you see at some servos not to move your vehicle from the pump before paying or is that only for the servo operators convenience thanks for future replies barry
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Reply By: Member - Josh- Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:08

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:08
Some servos will call the police if you move your car at all. Friends had it happen to them. They moved their car over to the air to check the tyre pressure while his wife went in to pay. Next thing the cops turn up. He had to prove he was going to pay before the cops turned up and didn't just send his wife in after they turned up. Police told him not to move his vehicle until he has paid in future. Problem is if you move your vehicle out of camera range it is hard to prove you then paid for it.
I rarely move my car now, after I went to move and the attendant announced over the PA not to move it or he'll call the police.
I hate it when your waiting for someone and they are in the shop looking for stuff to buy. More and more servos are getting more strict about not moving cars and paying before filling up.

AnswerID: 474858

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:52

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:52
Amazed the cops turned up so quickly, (not having a go at them) but would have thought the operator would wait at least a second or to, to see if the woman was going in or not. I always move myn forward if there is a big Q behind me, depending on the set up of the garage, people have to wait long enough when Im filling up 180L let alone having to wait while I go and Q up and pay as well. Ill do it till Im informed otherwise, then unfortunately people will have to wait till I've filled up and payed. Shame there is so many low lifes that think they have a right to flog things without paying for it like most of have to................
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Follow Up By: Member - Josh- Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:02

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:02
The servo where that happened is well known for drive offs. When the cops turned up they didn't realise it was for them. The attendant gave the cops the rego and as they walked out saw the car. They asked why he hadn't paid. He said his wife was paying (unknown to him she went to the toilet). The cops were pretty rude about it, but when they deal with low lifes all day you can understand. One place wanted me to leave my credit card with them before filling up, yeah right.

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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:07

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:07
""One place wanted me to leave my credit card with them before filling up, yeah right."" yeah mate agree with you there, no chance i let my card out my sight these days, wouldnt be the first person/staff of a service station joined in with the scammin mobs............

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Follow Up By: Member - Peter E1 (VIC) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 10:27

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 10:27
In British Columbia, Canada you have to prepay or leave credit card with attendant before filling up. This was a result of a drive off who ran over the attendant and left.
Not very convenient but how many times do you see people here drive away from the pumps and go to Maca's etc.
When the price goes up close to $2 per litre, which it will, it will be a bigger problem.
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Follow Up By: Member - Joe F (WA) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 10:49

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 10:49
G'day Folks

It can be a real mongrel especially at a very busy service station, having to technically inconvenience the waiting motorist waiting for fuel, while you head into the cashier to pay for your fuel.

With service stations nowdays being a super market/covenience store and fast food outlet that just happens to sell fuels, it can take a good while inside the premises just to front the cashier, so the poor bloke waiting to take your spot at the bowser can get a tad toey.

On a very recent road trip I pulled into the Swagman BP servo in Mount Magnet WA, it was just before midnight New Years Eve, the place was relatively quiet, so no line up at the Diesel Bowser.

I do all the right things to get fuel, but no fuel is forth coming from the pump, I had a second look and on the face of the bowser is a neatly printed A4 sized sign stating Fuel purchase to be paid for at the cashiers ~ prior to fueling up !!

Now I fully understand the service station managers concerns regarding drive offs, but this particular sign and the dumb arse attitude from the cashier wasn't what I needed right then.

I waddled off into the shop to be confronted by a young Japanese woman (the cashier) texting away on her mobile phone ~ I waited for her to make eye contact with me but she just kept texting and then during the text session she says, its al because of drive offs? Still no eye contact.

I asked her if she knew how much fuel I would be pumping into the the Cruisers tank, she says how would I know (we now have eye contact) then I said neither would I !! Then came the "Just leave your card" and go and fuel up, well the proverbial hit the big fan. I'm not saying she was to blame for the rules as she put it, but what a dumb sheila, I pointed out to her very deliberately ~ a Land Cruiser with a roof top camper and a caravan on the tow hitch do not make a good get away vehicle in a drive off situation in the dead of night, in a one horse town in the middle of Western Australia !!!!!!!!!!!

Needless to say, I left my ignition key at the cashiers desk, went and fueled up @ exactly $200 and asked my wife to go in and pay, as I would have been less than cordial to the texting cashier from Japan. I know how difficult it must be to get good staff ~ but this texting cashier wouldn't see " jack diddely" at any time, because she couldn't take her eyes off the phone screen.

On the return journey through Mount Magnet (10-1-12) ~ I fueled up at the oppositions BP servo, bought food and some petrol for the generator all up $234, muttering to myself never to drive into the Swagman BP again.

With me a promise made, is a promise kept.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:34

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:34
you would have to be very tempted to put the copper back in his box.

you dont have to prove intention of paying thats just crap.

woolies dont call the cops for shoplifting if you dont go directly to the checkout after selecting an item do they?
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Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 14:14

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 14:14
Leaving the keys is better than your. rds, drivers or credit card. At least you. Ant drive off and leave them.
Mind you many garages probably would not except the keys either.

No easy answer.

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Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:21

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:21
Barry I think there is no legal ramification but I do see it being very annoying to the console operator..... as illegal as it is some servo owners force the console operator to pay for any drive offs..... he see's you move off and what is going through his mind.

I think people have stop being nice and courteous to others in some situations, if some one in front of me at a servo has to go and pay for their fuel then that's how it is and it's caused no inconvenience to me..... what choice do I have..... getting annoyed with the person in front is no good for my heart LOL.

The other problem is if you have a discrepancy with the price and amount of fuel you purchased it is only your word against the console operator..... you have moved away from the pump and it may of been cleared for the person behind you.

We had a annoying new customer (who won't be our customer) come and pick up his car with his wife..... his wife had a spare set of keys (don't know why) and she jumped in the car and took off then 30 seconds later he walked in.... my wife turned to him and said "is that your partner who took off in your car" his reply was "yeah that's my wife"..... my wife turned to him and said "it would of been nice to come and see us first"...... my wife's first thoughts was someone is stealing a car..... what would of happened if she took off and we still had the car in pieces or undrivable.

Seriously I don't think your doing anyone favors... but I'm sure it makes you feel good, most people who are nice and courteous to 1 person usually inconvenience 10 other.

AnswerID: 474861

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:00

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:00
""as illegal as it is some servo owners force the console operator to pay for any drive offs"" you serious ?? I would tell them to jam it where the sun dont shine if I worked at one of those joints. Not the console operators fault the car drove off. What, there suppose to go and jump out in front of the car and tell them to stop come and pay first ?? Must be some law about them been allowed to do this to emplyee's surely ??..... I have noticed some of the garages the person at the register writing down number plates to every single car that pulls up at the pumps, mustput some of these operators under some serious pressure especailly when there busy..... all this for scum who think they shouldnt pay like the rest of us have to..........And if its a stolen vehicle I wouldnt want to be approaching them anyway. They make enough money from us put on a security guard, dont pay shoot the tyres out lol like they do in the states...............might stop a few

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 00:11

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 00:11
As I said "as illegal as it is"..... some of these scum bag owners demand it and if you were a 19 year old uni student or needed the job..... what would you do shut up and pay or find a new job.

Even heard stories of employees having to pay if they break or damage something.... boss pockets the money and claims the break or damage on their tax or insurance.

Many employees don't know their rights... and this is coming from someone who employs people..... me!
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Follow Up By: Fatso - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:58

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:58
Olcoolone is right.
Some workers are treated very poorly.
We don't all work for the public service or in unionised work places or for employers who have compassion for their workers.
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Follow Up By: ross - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:03

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:03
I guess one day we will have nothing but "pay before you fill" type servos or someone will invent a servo where your car is corralled with an electronic boom gate that wont lift up until you have completed your transaction.
FollowupID: 749848

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 20:44

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 20:44
Was in Vietnam for 3 weeks recently. They have a great system - you park your bike or car next to the pump and a guy comes out and serves you - gives you some fuel and takes your money - what a great system - why don't we do that????

Lot simpler than having a guy inside the building phoning the police.
FollowupID: 749895

Follow Up By: Member - OnYaBike - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 23:57

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 23:57
Re "writing down number plates", you would think they would have a camera system installed.
Mate who works there told me this one a couple of years ago: Seisia servo at Bamaga, guy fills up his rig with diesel, also small container with petrol for the bikes on the trailer. They go in, wife pays for the petrol, he stands behind, pays for nothing and they both walk out and drive off. After a while servo staff notice the unpaid fuel, run the security tapes and work out the scam. They phone ahead to the Jardine Ferry who don't let the vehicle across, don't accuse them of anything but just tell them they need to return (50km) to the servo.
Back at the servo the guy puts on an act saying he thought his wife paid for the lot, pays the bill and leaves after wasting a couple of hours driving time.
Probably thought the local yokels would be an easy touch, and not have such gadgetry as cameras.
Funny thing is, by the look of the rig, boat, bikes etc it didn't look like he was stuck for a dollar. Just a smart a*se.
FollowupID: 749917

Follow Up By: Jarse - Monday, Jan 16, 2012 at 08:34

Monday, Jan 16, 2012 at 08:34
In the U.S. you have to prepay at all servo's. You give them, say, $50 if you're going to fill up. If that's not enough, you go back in and give them more, and the pump re-starts. Any balance left over, you get back. Pretty simple stuff, really...

Inconvenient? Hell YES.

Success rate at preventing drive-offs? 100% :-)
FollowupID: 750007

Reply By: Member - baffle (QLD) - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:31

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:31
I invariably have to move my Navara after filling with diesel to then get LPG for my other tank. No problems so far even though the two bowsers are on opposite sides of the servo.
AnswerID: 474862

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:36

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:36
The problem starts with the lack of staff in the servos on busy days.

When fuel is cheap, its not uncommon to stand in a queue of 5 or 6 people waiting to pay. In the meantime, the driveway is full of vehicles who have already filled up and it's courteous to move forward to let someone else get access to the pump.

I'd expect from a legal point of view, you can only be accused of stealing if you drive off their property. If they want us to wait in a long queue of customers, then its there problem if we move to allow others to fill.
AnswerID: 474865

Follow Up By: p_marns - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 00:50

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 00:50
Not so phil, One day i filled up and went to pay my card would nt work. It was very busy so i offered to move my car so someone else could use the pump and i was told ''to move my car before paying was considered a drive off'' .I had to leave my car ,blocking that driveway till my bank came back on line
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 20:46

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 20:46
Yep, thats what they would have you believe.
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Reply By: Member - Dave B1 (QLD) - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:37

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:37
Sorry, haven't posted recently BUT this is paranoia of the highest degree. (Probably not even worth posting IMHO). The coppers aren't that stupid to turn up at a servo, find you and the missus still there (NOT DRIVEN OFF) and either arrest or charge you. Come on folks, common sense here. Yes, it happens. The baddies drive away and do not pay, you on the other hand are there, card in hand and waiting to pay. If it says on the sign don't move till you pay THEN DON'T. Pay the money, buy your ice cream or whatever and keep going. The cops are not stupid and you are not goimg to be arrested.


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Follow Up By: Member Bushy 04(VIC) - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:55

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 22:55
Well put Dave, since courtesy and manners seem to be a thing of the past this sort of fear seems common.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:01

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:01
Yeah my thoughts too..........................
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Follow Up By: Member - Josh- Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:08

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:08
Problem is common sense isn't common any more.

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Follow Up By: Member - Carl- Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:15

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:15
I'm voting with Josh. Why are we calling this common sense all the time, when it certain does not seem to be all that common.

If you have not left the service station you have not stolen the fuel. All you have done is moved it from one place (the underground tank) to another place. Like shop lifting, you have to leave the store before you have actually stolen something.
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Follow Up By: Member - Morry H (WA) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 21:57

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 21:57
We had a problem from a driveway supposed drive off. The cops came to our house and said we had to pay for it.
We told them we were not in that area on that day. And Luckily I was working at a government place at that particular time and had proof that it could not have been me driving the car as it was at my work.

They even had photos and reckoned it was us. So Yes police do get involved in drive offs when people do not pay for fuel.

So my husband refused to move our car now until I come back out of the service station and know that fuel is paid for. It has caused a bit of agro and one person threatened to shunt him forward.
So Yes the police do get involved. And no way should the attendant have to pay for someone elses account and risk their life trying to get the money from them.
FollowupID: 749910

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:09

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:09
It cant be illegal to move but i understand the console operator 's concern. 12 to 16 pumps to watch and people moving around the servo grounds.. I wouldn't like it if it was me.. Having said that, you couldnt pay me enough to do that job.. I take my hat of to them!! Michael

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Reply By: Member - Allan (ACT) - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:14

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:14
Hi folks, my first post for some years.

I did find this thread of interest and thought I might throw my rusty knowledge on the subject in the ring.

You mention that you are interested in the legal side of the circumstances you mentioned.

You can be "accused" of a drive off (stealing) but that doesn't make it an offence at law.

At law, the offence that would be considered is the criminal offence of theft. For a case to be successful at court the prosecution must prove the identity of the accused person and an "intent" by that person to permanently deprive the owner of the property (fuel).

This is typically proven in court by police and witnesses presenting evidence by way of either an admission by the accused or by circumstantial evidence.

Clearly you have no intent to steal the fuel when you move your vehicle and if asked if you intended to steal the fuel you would honestly be able deny any intent. Having made no admission, the only other evidence to consider is circumstantial evidence.

You would probably be aware that shop stealers are typically not apprehended until either they have gone past the checkout or outside the store. The shop stealer would have been seen in the store hiding the goods under their clothing, or similar. Waiting until they pass the point of payment without paying adds to the circumstantial evidence, but even this circumstantial evidence may not be sufficient to prove intent.

If you move your vehicle at a service station before paying you are legally doing nothing wrong, as long as you intend to make payment. If you remain on the property of the service station there is no circumstantial evidence to indicate that you have formed any intent to steal the fuel. In brief, there is no evidence to indicate an intent to steal the fuel.

I rest my case Your Worship, there is no case to answer, at law.

Remember that in a criminal case, such as theft, it is up to the prosecution to present sufficient evidence to the court to prove guilt "beyond reasonable doubt". In the case of moving a vehicle before paying for fuel I cannot see how a prosecution would ever be approved by the police to proceed to court and, even if it was approved to go to court, I couldn't see a Magistrate convicting anyone.

Disclaimer time: The above is a summary and fits most similar circumstances. There is case law that could be considered and possible specific offences of fuel drive offs in your jurisdiction that I am not aware of. As usual, seek professional legal advice.

So that might be the position at law. Like most incidents with the potential for confrontation, you would need to be mindful of what the normal or expected practice is. Any actions you take outside the norm leaves you open to being "accused" or confronted, but that doesn't make you guilty.

Hope that is helpful, or at least mildly entertaining on a Friday night.
AnswerID: 474869

Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 00:39

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 00:39
well done Alllan and good reply, an interesting point is that when you pull up to the bowser and lift the nozzle off the pump you are "starting a contract", the buzzer goes off inside the servo at the "point of sale" and the operator hits the button and "approves" the "contract of sale" and has then enterered into an agreement with you ..... legally ..... if you are "seen" or "percieved" to be driving off then you are breaking that contract and basically in the poos.......
Be careful and respectful as the margins are really crud in the fuel game, despite what most will say, and they lose a LOT of money with drive offs, every one that gets away will only increase OUR prices at the pump so really if they get up-set then be a tab thoughtful in your responce ..............
FollowupID: 749818

Reply By: Motherhen - Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:55

Friday, Jan 13, 2012 at 23:55
Thanks Allan for your participation. It does make sense that if you have not left the compound you have not stolen.

I do feel for servo operators with this sort of theft becoming common.

What do we do? Well at home it is no problem, we just move the car if someone is waiting, then go in and sign the slate. When travelling, our F250 and caravan takes up a bit of room in the queue. As soon as i know the litres, i walk into the servo to pay, while he moves the vehicle to allow others access. If anyone came and told us not to, they'd probably be lynched by the three or four motorists waiting behind.

A few years ago at Halls Creek, we waited for the driver of the vehicle with trailer in front to fill, then go in and pay. After quite some time, he never returned, and his wife sitting in the passenger seat was copping the glares from the line of waiting motorists. Why doesn't she get out and move the vehicle, my husband said quietly as it was getting late and he was becoming impatient? She must have thought the same thing, as soon she got out, and as a semi-paraplegic started slowly staggering her way around the front of the car, when the driver turned up. He must have had a bad dose of Delhi-Belly or something. With an error then made when charging us, all in all we were delayed over an hour and had to find our campsite in the dark, not waiting to let down eight tyres when onto the dirt road, which had more consequences.

My nephew works for a Perth technology company that is setting up high tech. servos in India. The charging all works automatically - way way in front of any technology used in this country. I can't remember how it all works, but drive off thefts just can not occur. There is hope for the future.


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AnswerID: 474871

Reply By: Member - Bucky - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 04:22

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 04:22
Barry P
Never move your vehicle, till you pay.
I never do, no matter what !

That is common corteousy to the Console attendant, who needs to track the movement of vehicles vs pumps, at any servo, and not the drivers.
There is more than the person behind you to consider

It is getting to the stage that we will have to pay in advance, before we will be able to fill up, or at least hane over our credit cards, as security, just liike in most Motels.

I once had some moron at BP in Stawell, Vic, go off his head at me fo not moving my vehicle along so he could fill up. I can look after myself, so he got told.


AnswerID: 474873

Follow Up By: Hairy (WA) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 15:04

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 15:04
Gday Bucky,
Well said.......If Im in a situation were I think I should move I just get the consol operators attention and let them know what I want to do, If they give you the thumbs up I move, If they dont Ill leave the car there and go in and pay Its only courteous.

Im sure people dont load there shopping into their cars and then go back in and pay for it?

I think Barry just mucked up, moved the car and no one went in to pay? Must have been a long crap too or the ccops are really on the ball there! LOL

Did your mate at Stawel pull his head in? Hahahahahaha I bet he did! LOL

FollowupID: 749861

Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 06:32

Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 06:32
Cheers Hairy

I am not allowed to dribble on, on the forum, But how are you going ?

FollowupID: 749920

Reply By: patsproule - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 06:51

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 06:51
I used to move to allow others to fill but got thoroughly abused by my local servo one day for doing it. So I dont do it anymore despite death stares from others. Dont use that servo anymore either - they could have handled it better given I was a regular and well known customer.
AnswerID: 474877

Follow Up By: Life Member - esarby (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 07:30

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 07:30
The last time I travelled the Nullarbor The Roadhouse pumps were locked. A sign said, please leave your licence at the office. But I can understand that one. I always move at my local servo if it is busy but not at any others. Wiluna W A was a good one, Pumps locked, Forecourt service, escorted into the Supermarket to pay at the checkout. Could just imagine being chased up the CSR by the local police.

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Reply By: snapper49 - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 07:55

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 07:55
To be charged with stealing they have to prove intent to steal
Just moving your vechicle isnt intent to steal
AnswerID: 474878

Follow Up By: ross - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:59

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:59
Correct,I think you would have to at least leave the boundaries of the service station to be accused of doing a runner.

Some time back in WA,if you drove off without paying and they got your number,you would get a polite phone call from the local police asking you to return to pay your bill based on the assumption you forgot to pay.

If they did want to charge you ,you could always blame it on an anxiety attack like that Liberal senator Mary Jo Fisher in SA LOL

I drove off without paying at my local servo and went back and paid later in the day. The owner said he saw me drive off but knew I would be back when I realised what I had done.

Sadly,he shut down last month,unable to compete with the larger servos owned by Woolworths.
I always supported him as I found it preferable to have to cross a major roads and waiting in long queues to save 3-4 cents a litre.
FollowupID: 749847

Reply By: Ray - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:16

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:16
I had an instance where I was filling with LPG and petrol. Because the pumps were so close to each other I filled both tanks at the same time. Next thing I know was a voice coming over the loud speaker that I was only allowed to fill one tank at a time from a person supposed to be the manager. I ignored the loud speaker message and went in to pay my bill where upon this manager confronted me. I told him that there was no sign stating that I could not use two pumps at the same time and that if he wished to speak to me speak to me face to face and not over the loud speaker system to which he became very irate. I complained to the servo operator about this man's manners, until then I did not know the man was the manager and the servo operator said that he was like that with everyone.
I complained to the servos owner regarding bad manners by the manager and have not seen him there since.
AnswerID: 474879

Follow Up By: Ray - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:23

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:23
I would like to add that I was in the NT and wanted to fill up with LPG. The pump was unlocked but would not start. I was into the office about this and was told that I had to give them my keys, debit card or $50.00 before they would turn on the pump. I told them they could shove their LPG where the "Monkey Shoves His Nuts" and drove off. You should have seen the look on the servo operators face.
FollowupID: 749828

Follow Up By: GrumpyOldFart - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:58

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:58
Me thinks there is far too much acceptance of "ADVISORY" signs as law by servo workers/owners. They are just that, advisory. If the sign was not obvious before you lifted that nozzle to fill up it can not form part of the contract for fuel supply.
Like "remove helmets before entering" I have had numerous discussions with console operators over this and my wearing of an open face helmet. They all accepted my money with me wearing the helmet, the alternative was they kick me out making it impossible for me to pay.

I could go on about bag inspections in shops, but.........

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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:32

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:32
On many occations I fill my LPG car at the gas bowser & walk across to a diesel or petrol pump with jerry cans to fill for my farm equipment.

I then carry them back put them in the car & pay for it all together. Only had a slight issue once when I went in to pay for it all & the operator thought someone had driven off from the diesel pump. She told me she had one of those bosses that makes em pay for drive offs so she was real happy that it was just me filling my jerry cans.
FollowupID: 749836

Reply By: Kris and Kev - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:45

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 08:45
It all started when the servos and companies decided to sack all of the drive way attendants and become self service. I am totally against some suggestions that we should go in and pay before placing fuel in your car. As with all matters, because of the low life in all communities the good people are expected to make sacrifices. The criminals should be held accountable. Drive Offs are treated by the courts as a simple offence. There is no real deterrent. The offenders are criminals, they are stealing!
I do feel sorry for the small business owners, and at the end of the day, we all end up paying!
A few places in the Kimberley they require things prior to getting fuel. At Turkey Creek my wife had to go inside the shop and give them her license, then they turned the browser on and I was able to fill up. They were very nice and apologised but said they had been getting so many drive offs.
Stealing - Yes, you need to prove that the person had the intention to steal (state of mind). But as with shop stealing, you do not have to leave the building as long as the intent can be proved. (Asportation – example - removing the item from the sealed package and placing it inside your bag.)
AnswerID: 474880

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:28

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:28
There is no point in moving your vehicle before paying.

Very few service sations would have the ability to turn the pump on for the next vehicle in the queue, before accepting payment and cancelling the current transaction on the pump.

The only thing that annoys me is when some "brain dead idiot" orders a coffee and shops for their potato chips, bread, newspaper and chocolate before returning to their vehicle.

It makes me want to drop them on the spot. But then who would move their vehicle out of the way:-((


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AnswerID: 474881

Reply By: mikehzz - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:35

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:35
Knowing margins like I do, 1 drive off would probably cancel 8-10 paid for tanks of fuel at least. As a small business operator it would certainly get up your nose big time. Also, anyone operating a till is responsible for the cash in the till being equal to the registered takings. The register people have been known to pocket some of the takings as well :-) The business owner can be facing crooks from all sides of his operation including the government.
Running a small business is awesome fun :-)
AnswerID: 474882

Reply By: Member - Lachy T - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:36

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:36
I haven't moved my truck off, but have had people in front of me do it at local servo's near home, I have moved up and been unable to fill up until the other person had paid. Seems all the servo's near home won't zero/reset the pump until the person has paid for their fuel, good in the way that if you need/want to dispute your fuel you still have 'your' physical evidence on the pump, as apposed to the servo's record on their computer. Long story short, seems to defeat the purpose of moving up anyway.

AnswerID: 474883

Reply By: Stu & "Bob" - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:40

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:40
When we were in the US a few years ago, the fuel had to be paid for before the operator would turn on the pump to fill the car.
It was a standard procedure right down the West Coast, and was quite disconcerting at first but we got used to it eventually. The procedure we used was to hand $50 to the consol operator, go out and fill the car then return to collect the change. If you gave them a small amount, then that is all the fuel that you would get.
I don't remember how they kept track on who paid what amount at what pump, but they did and it worked quite well.

AnswerID: 474885

Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:58

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:58
Yep same happened to me when i went there.
In addition to this if you wanted to pay by card they would put your card in a numbered rack corresponding to your pump number. When you went back to pay then they removed your card from the rack & debited it to the amount shown on the pump you used.
FollowupID: 749838

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:33

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:33
Change from $50?? :-) Soon we will have to leave a kidney. :-)
FollowupID: 749849

Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:42

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 09:42
Hi All

We drove into the BP at Emerald on a Monday morning it was a very busy servo.

I queued behind this earth moving contractor who filled his vehicle and then proceeded to fill the tank on his traybody.

After he finished he moved his vehicle clear of the pump area and went into the shop.

I moved up to the pump and checked for the zero dollar / litres on the pump and started to fill our vehicle.

When I finished I went into pay.

There was a line of people waiting to pay, and I noticed the guy who fueled up ahead of me at the food counter.

When I got to the console operator I gave her the pump number and paid the bill with my eftpos card.

For some reason I didn't check the receipt until I got out side near our vehicle.

I compared it with the total dollars on the pump and I had been over charged by $145.

I went back in to the console operator and explained what happened, she was able to check the recent history on the pump and gave me a refund.

I pointed out the guy with the work truck who was still at the food counter and she called him over and made him pay for his fuel.

So it goes to show that you have to be vigilant at all times.

I was day dreaming and nearly got caught out.


AnswerID: 474886

Reply By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:38

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:38
I only ever move up a little bit.. still in range of bowsers.

Hey Barry... Could your have a go at using sentences... Capitals and fullstops? It's really hard to read otherwise.

No offence intended. :-]]
AnswerID: 474888

Follow Up By: Member - Krakka - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 18:14

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 18:14
Hmmmmm, I don't understand what form of punctuation this is Royce!

... ... ..

Looks like Morse code to me hahahaha, couldn't help it mate.
FollowupID: 749879

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:22

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:22
Ah well Peter... they're called 'ellipsis'... see here:

I doubt whether I'm using them strictly as prescribed. You only use three dots though. More than that and Word picks you up.

I really find it a bit rude to not even try to separate sentences so that we can all read it easily. Meanwhile the meaning is often lost with no puntuation.

I'm not a stickler for punctuation. I don't mind a few contractions, slang words, smiley faces etc. [hate 'ect'... but that's for another time!]

Cheers Royce

FollowupID: 749884

Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:36

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:36
Some people don't know. Don't dwell on it.



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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:46

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:46
That's not what I meant to say!!

What I meant to say was

Give the guy a break!

How many screw-ups of their/there/they're, to/too, colons, semi-colons, no caps, stream-of consciousnous(sp?), etc do you see here?

Let alone punctuation, grammar and sentence construction.

Don't pick on one guy. Pick on the education system - and then make an allowance for those who struggle with it but who may have other talents.

Off my soapbox now.


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FollowupID: 749887

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:50

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:50
Gday Frank. I agree... some people don't know how to use puctuation.

Everybody can have a go though. You did.

I'm a teacher. EVERYBODY has learned about how to make a sentence. Some people have problems... but everyone can put an effort in. That was my point. Sadly it has now been dwelled apon a bit much. I agree.

I had simply asked that when a post is made, that it is made readable.

Okay, as a teacher I'm a bit frustrated. I have taught primary kids for nearly 40 years. Of the thousand or so children that I have taught, I don't believe that ANY can't write to be understood. Lot's will make spelling mistakes and use an apostrophe where it isn't required, but ALL can separate thoughts into sentence like structures that allow you to read with understanding.

Ahrgh.... now I'm dwelling even more. I'm going outside to do some work while it's still daylight.
FollowupID: 749888

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:57

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 19:57
Check back... I asked for an effort to make the post readable. Nothing more.

Simple sentences. Nothing more.

Even incorrect sentences are better than none.

The poor bloke now has a giant discussion going on, which of course made things worse.

Spelling, grammar, punctuation was not really the point.

Meanwhile the education system in Australia is excellent. You don't think so?
FollowupID: 749890

Follow Up By: landseka - Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 09:51

Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 09:51
"Member - Royce posted:
Lot's will make spelling mistakes and use an apostrophe where it isn't required, but ALL can separate thoughts into sentence like structures that allow you to read with understanding. "

Surely Royce, in this context there shouldn't be an apostrophe in "Lot's" should there?

FollowupID: 749926

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 09:58

Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 09:58
Almost got me there Neil..... I had to think a while before I could find a way to wriggle out of this contraction...

Of course it could have read: " a lot of us" .... but then again ... maybe I was tongue in cheek using the apostrophe where it wasn't needed as a lead in to my 'sook' about apostrophe's. See..... I just did it again. My sense of irony and humour often miss the mark.

Cheers Royce :-]]
FollowupID: 749928

Follow Up By: Member - Krakka - Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:08

Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:08
Ahhhhh sorry Royce, I'll keep my mouth shut next time. But I do agree with what you are saying, although he may not have been educated in Australia.

FollowupID: 749940

Reply By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:44

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:44
All pumps at caltex and most fuel stations has a two zero system, its where you can put two ots of fuel on computer. this is called memory. you have to be on the ball in a servo, i know spent 3 years in a few, mainly caltex. and when people move it makes it harder to keep track, also you if you move and not on the ball you'll pay somebodies elses,


and stuff the queue. otherwise somebody has to pay, or get charged for theft.

simple i know. but people still move out of courtesy. don't please
AnswerID: 474889

Reply By: Madfisher - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:37

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:37
Yes but dont you just love it when the servo is quite and some moron pulls up at the first available pump, when another pump is available in front.
When refilling work trucks I will move them up a bit if a semi is waiting behind as they block the whole servo anyway.
But the staff all know me anyway.
Cheers pete
AnswerID: 474890

Reply By: Fatso - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:42

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:42
Interesting responses.
It is just typical of how the fuel supply chain has gone to the pack ever since the federal government legislated to take away the restrictions which prevented the fuel retail to be dominated by the big companies.
I believe prior to this change fuel companies were restricted in how many servos they could own. Now Coles & Woolies dominate the market & the quality of service is deplorable.
The way the servos are treating their customers with contempt is amazing. What other business can treat a customer like some of you have mentioned & still stay in business. If I got treated like that I would spend my money elsewhere and if not able to I would give up buying fuel & take up some other means of getting around that didn't require me to deal with such a---holes.
At the end of the day we collectively as consumers who have the final say on demand are to blame for the slip in standards. We have been gullible enough to swallow this sh-t & come back for more.
Some think you are getting a better deal by waiting in line with your pathetic supermarket discount voucher. Fact is you are not. Coles & Woolies are hooking it in to you because we have totally disregarded the independent servo up the road thinking we are getting a better deal from the big 2. Now some have no choice because that independent & all of his mates are gone.
There was an article on TV some rears back where a Woolies servo outsold a small retailer down the road by 9 times on literage, even though the small retailer was cheaper.
That's the power of mass marketing.
When it comes to driving the fuel market it is a matter of" You bend over Woolies & Coles are driving".
Just get back in the queue & don't complain. You lost your chances by not supporting the independents.
That's my 2 bobs worth. Fuel in Cairns, where I live, is 10 c/l higher than Townsville. The reason is that Townsville has a more diversified retail chain & there is more competition. Cairns customers are too eager to supplier the big 2 & have driven the independents out. The few that are left can't afford to start a price war with them. They have become too big to deal with.
I won't buy fuel from Coles or Woolies. I buy from a retailer who gives me a better service than them. He also gives me a better price & a monthly account. I even get a Christmas card from them & the console operators know me. They are real people. Not nameless, faceless drones behind glass security screens.
AnswerID: 474891

Follow Up By: Fatso - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:59

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 12:59
I got so carried away I forgot to mention that the servos I use don't yell at you over the PA that you will be charged if you move your vehicle.
It's quite a common practice at the servos I use.
Even the police do it.
FollowupID: 749851

Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 09:58

Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 09:58
I also won't buy from supermarket owned fuel retailers.
They are the ones that have driven up the price of fuel so that they can offer their ridiculous "discount coupons".
Anybody that uses those coupons must also believe in the 'tooth fairy & Santa Claus.

Boycott the supermarket owned fuel retailers & watch the price drop!

FollowupID: 749929

Reply By: Stretchlizard2 - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 13:14

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 13:14
Hi all
The method used in a lot of supermarket branded servos in Europe is to have multiple pumps but only one exit lane. This exit lane has a cash booth operator. You join the queue to pay as soon as you are finished fuelling. The servo is minimalist with no water, air or brush for your windows but very cheap fuel. Only sells fuel, nothing else, even oil has to be purchased in the supermarket. Similar to cheap airlines.
Does this sound familiar here? You get what you pay for and we have showed the servo owners we do not want to pay much so we will not get much in return.
I will be surprised if we do not soon adopt the prepay model for cash purchases, seeing more servos that have credit card readers on all pumps, and only open for cash purchases between 9 and 5. Happens other places!
AnswerID: 474892

Reply By: Olsen's 4WD Tours and Training - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 13:27

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 13:27
I move anyway. If they want to call the cops they can. By then I'll have a receipt for payment and they can all waste their time.
AnswerID: 474893

Follow Up By: Hairy (WA) - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 15:54

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 15:54
As long as you dont stop for a crap on the way too pay you'll probably be alright. LOL
FollowupID: 749868

Reply By: SDG - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 20:49

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 20:49
The last time I got yelled at over the PA system, was because the console operator did not like me cleaning my windows. He told me (over PA ) that this was a servo, not a car wash. Being able to see is just as important as having fuel in the car.

BTW. There was no where else in the servo to move car to, to clean anywhere else.
AnswerID: 474919

Reply By: Bazooka - Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 22:32

Saturday, Jan 14, 2012 at 22:32
Somehow doubt there is any offence on the statute books anywhere in Australia which deals with moving your vehicle before paying. As someone said it's an advisory. This sort of publicity doesn't help though:

I move my truck whenever I think it's appropriate and haven't been chipped for doing so, ever - Sydney, Melb, my own large town or on the highway. Must have been lucky. Despite the boredom, poor pay and risk for servo till workers I've only ever encountered one who needed to find other work, and maybe he was just having a bad day.
AnswerID: 474930

Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 08:37

Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 08:37
It still has me wondering why Australian servo's don't follow the rule of USA, it's easy , pull up at the pump, go in and pay $50, go out and put in $50 worth of Gasoline, if it fills before the 50 bucks is in then you go back and get your change.

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AnswerID: 474938

Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 16:46

Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 16:46
All this comes down to the short sighted, ignorant and plain cheap and nasty way that most service stations are designed.

They mostly still insist on laying out forcourts like they did under full service.

They put a pump with a specific type of fuel behind another with a differing type...frequently one pump in the line is actually doing anything.

At my local there is a diesel pump with an unleaded behind it..very inefficient.

If the service stations were laid out with a single row of pumps and a single lane entry & exit for the property, the whole issue of drive offs could be iliminated.

There are a few highway srvice ststions laid out like this.

Some service stations in japan you pull up to the single row of pumps, infront of you there is a tyre cutter........when you pay the tyre cutter retracts.

drop away barriers would be just as effective as tyre cutters.

there is no need to move because you are only occupying one single pump.

If there is a single lane entry & exit to the service station it can be more effectively surveyled by cameras., and controlled by boom gates, drop away barriers or the like.

Most sites this would be easily possible but the shop would need to be on the front or back of the block and not to the side.

A single line of pumps properly arranged gives nowhere to hide.

But, just like so many things, instaed of doing things properly these people would rather inconvieninece the customer or the staff and continue to complain about the drive offs.


AnswerID: 474975

Reply By: Member - Richard H - West NSW - Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 17:23

Sunday, Jan 15, 2012 at 17:23
I used to move off if someone was behind me. I think it's just simple good manners.

However, I've had a console operator almost commit 'hari kari' in front of me, thinking that I was going to do a runner. What with a 17 foot van behind, yeah right.

So I don't do it now, and I'll go to the driver behind me, apologise, explain the situation, and go & pay.

Speaking from experience as frequent viewer, well I was, of service station forecourt video's. I know why the operators can be leery. Usually the video tape is that old even expensive video enhancement won't bring much stuff up that is good enough for a court to see and believe, and how much is a tape?

The other thing is a lot of the times the video is not focused on the pumps, and when viewed you get a terrific view of the side a building, or concrete.

And I do believe that some servo owners will make the operator pay for runners. Even stolen motor vehicles.
AnswerID: 474983

Reply By: get outmore - Monday, Jan 16, 2012 at 03:22

Monday, Jan 16, 2012 at 03:22
my local servo and the servo at yalgoo have the best simplest system

you swipe your card, enter your pin then fuel up and just leave

no problems with spending a couple of hours in the dunny, or buying overpriced crap because all it has is all you need, a card swiper and fuel pumps
AnswerID: 475044

Follow Up By: Member - Matt M - Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 at 14:25

Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 at 14:25
Couldn't agreemore get outmore. Some places here work that way and many in the US. Best way to avoid drive offs as you can't fill up until you have presented a card, and completely negates the need to go into the shop at all if fuel is all you want. Move the point of sale to the pump seems to be very efficient. Similar to supermarkets now with the self-checkout lanes; although I often notice more staff standing there supervising than are on the checkouts themselves.

Probably will not be long until some kind of embedded RFD technology allows you to pull up, enter a pin and then fill and go. Alternatively, move away from the pump, park then visit the heads or line up for your chips. Any process will only move as quickly as the slowest step. Seems to me to be little gained by moving out of the way to allow another vehicle access to the pump, when the owner of that vehicle just has to spend extra time in the checkout line. Some interesting comments above about workflow and station design as well.

I know there will be people screaming that they want to pay cash and fair enough. But maybe handle that the way tolls do, specified lanes for cash payment and keep the express lanes for those using cards. Usually filling up to 180 litres of diesel, can't even remember the last time I carried that much cash on me.


FollowupID: 750150

Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 at 19:52

Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 at 19:52
paying cash should always be an option especially at the yalgoo one as you cant njust go elsewhere.

I actually like the train station ticket machines at perth, take anything.

of course they have transit gaurds and anything holding cash in yalgoo at 2.00am would be fair game (or anywhere else for that matter)
FollowupID: 750185

Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:20

Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:20
On the question, I guess it is well covered, intent to steal would need to be proven before you find yourself fronting the judiciary on a fraud charge...

But the thread had me asking the question, are we that time poor that the 3-5 minute wait, maybe even 10 minutes at times, is that big of a deal that we need to concern ourselves with it to this extent? Not worth stressing over too much I wouldn’t think...
AnswerID: 475184

Reply By: howesy - Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 at 21:13

Tuesday, Jan 17, 2012 at 21:13
few places I came accross in NT outback and nothern WA wouldnt turn the pump on until you prepaid for the fuel and if you wanted to fill you had to leave your licence or credit card at the counter until you paid.
AnswerID: 475234

Reply By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Thursday, Jan 19, 2012 at 19:42

Thursday, Jan 19, 2012 at 19:42
thanks for all replies so far .spoke to a policeman a few days ago and his reply was if you did not go outside the perimeter or boundary of the servo before paying for fuel you should not be in trouble ,its only if you go past the boundary line without paying its called stealing eg a drive off bye barry
AnswerID: 475438

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