HF or Sat Phone

Drift alarm now activated.
There is an article on the www.vks737.on.net site (Tab at the top right) that pretty much captures the essentials in my view - also see the articles by the Eoz staff in the communications section here. Cost is only one factor in the equation of course - it's all about what you need the long distance comms for (chat, serious talk, emergencies, SMS, email, GPS tracking etc.) and how effective and efficient the comms will be, when you require them. I choose HF, but many choose Sat - fine by me :-o).

G'day Garry,

if I could afford it, I would have both. Presently however, I have a HF which we have used a lot over the last 8 years. Like others have posted in other similar entries, the HF community when traveling is a great attraction for me. I have used VKS in an emergency only once and it worked very well. Listening in to other travelers each day during the skeds has been useful and interesting and why we keep subscribing. (The ABC stations work well out in the desert too)

We have always been able to contact at least one VKS base - if Adelaide is not available, Charters Towers or Alice Springs usually are.

I guess one advantage of HF over a Sat Phone in an emergency is the VKS community - help may be another traveler a short distance away.

Good luck

John

G'day Garry, I'll admit to being biased and admit also both systems have their merits but I have a HF radio and belong to a club and that fills my communication needs while I'm travelling. It's very rare you can't contact a base station or another member, send a text, make a phone call and send or recieve GPS figures.
The HF Radio Club has a good social network with meetings, tech support and get togethers all over Oz during the year.
rr VKE237 Sel 6678

Thanks for those positive HF comments. I guess I should have clarified my use in the original post. Not really interested in the HF club/chat type environment though I can see it being a real advantage in an emergency. I am looking at a system for its emergency use and staying in contact with home.

Whatever I decide on it will have to be able to moved between two vehicles.

Cheers

Garry

You can make phone calls with a HF, you can not make radio calls with a sat phone.....

Hullo Garry

I think you have answered your own question in your latest post.

However, FWIW, I use a combination of HF and Spot

The Spot is set up to send one of 4 messages, namely "All's well", "I need help with vehicle", "I need medical help" (non life threatening) and "Emergency" - all messages include GPS coords. The Spot is small/light enough to take with me when I leave the vehicle to go on walks, etc. Annual cost $100.

If I am out of mobile SMS range, I use the first option on Spot each afternoon after I set up camp

I use the HF to log on each day if I am somewhere remote and there is no mobile coverage (and sometimes even if there is so as to retain continuity of contact with VKS) Annual cost $115

For me, the huge advantage of HF vis a vis satphone is that it is broadcast, that is, anyone tuned in can hear it and if help is required (or advice re road conditions, etc) there is often someone nearby who responds. The number of instances where this has been of real and immediate help are well documented, these instances being where a satphone would have been no use whatsoever.

Cheers
Andrew

Something else to consider.

If you roll your 4WD or breakdown or have a flat battery, you may not get any use out of your HF unit as it may not have any power. However a sat phone being portable can still be used (assuming it's charged of course).

Thanks - I think the issues raised apply equally to both - satphones getting lost, HF aerials being broken off etc really depends on the circumstances at the time.

Cheers

Garry

G'day, my Sat Phone lives in a water proof, crush resistant case and is easily reached if needed. Makes it easy to grab if car is on fire or rolled etc. Just my two cents worth.

Am I right in saying that HF radios are not very portable? By that I mean the installation in the car is complex and more or less permanent. Not easy to transfer between cars and the aerial is quite large. I have 2 cars as well and use both for outback trips and have wondered about the same question posed by Garry. Cheers.

Garry,

We have an Inmarsat prepaid Sat Phone. We wanted it for emergencies only. We received the Government Subsidy and so it became a less expensive option. We have used it for an emergency and it worked fine. We have sent SMS messages and they work fine. We sent one to our selves to see if there was a cost to receive it and there wasn't.

Our prepaid service runs for 2 years. The phone links to the satellites quickly. Our view is that if you want it for emergencies it is the way to go.

We use an ordinary UHF radio for general communication and our mobiles for other, when in range. The Sat Phone can be used for all others.

People will tell you that there is a problem with connecting to the satellites. We have not found that to be the case unless we are in a building.

We also selected an Inmarsat as we believe its satellites are more reliable.

We have voice, fax and data capabilities.

Cheers,
Di

1. Try putting your HF radio in your pocket when you go for a hike.
2. Can your mobile phone be diverted to your HF?

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

The Sat Phones may be cheap but the calls are something else ,We had an emergency(Medivac) a few years back and we called the flying doctor in Cairns on a friends satellite phone ,cost of one phone call $220 that is one way . With the updated service through H.f. radio to the RFDS (selcall direct)you will not get a better service, W.A.and QLD are the best systems and are being rolled out to the other states in the future i believe . It is explained in detail on the HF radio club web site's.Pandanus Park Veteran.

This always turns into a long debate with no real out come....

Some of our comms are used for business purposes so have a good setup is important to us, our customers and employee's.

We carry 7 types on communications on board:-
1) Next G mobile phone.
2) Next G modem.
3) Iridium Motorola 9555 sat phone with car kit and external antenna.
4) Spot messenger.
5) GME PLB with GPS.
6) Icom IC 7000 HF radio.
7) Icom UHF radio and 2 x 5w UHF hand helds.

Satellite phones are a good idea for travellers as it offer hassle free communications with others and is no different to a mobile phone, our sat phone is on a Pivotel plan as we found this offer the best coverage..... not in distance but numbers able to be dialled, for example 000, 1300, 13, 1800 can be direct dialled.... Most satellite carriers will not allow you to dial these numbers and as more and more places are going to these number with no option of a standard number you will not be able to phone them..... The Pivotel Iridium service unlike the others you can dial a number direct like 02 9979 2457 and hit send, most others will require you to dial something like 0011 61 29979 2457.... the other thing with Pivotel Iridium service is you have a standard mobile phone number like 0417 234 567 instead of the much longer more confusing international number.

Call cost are a bit more expensive then some of the overseas based providers $1.40 per minute on Pivotal with a monthly access fee compared with the others of 70c per minute and no access fee...... the down side of these cheap outgoing calls is very expensive incoming calls.... to phone our Iriduim phone form a land line or mobile is the same call rate as any other mobile you phone..... with the cheaper overseas carriers the incoming call rates for someone phoning you can be as high as $16.00 per minute .

HF radio is good for long range comms and in some cases can be better for an emergency then Satellite phone..... with HF radio you are dealing with professionally trained radio operators who know what to do, what to ask, who to contact and where you are unlike phoning someone on a Satellite phone who is untrained.... usually a friend who will go into panic mood.... as stated above when you call in with a problem to one of the HF radio service providers they will repeat everything you say back to you..... this is not only to get a correct answer but also to inform others close by who can not hear you (remember HF is long range over 30 to 50 kilometres) respond to your request for help..... you might be bogged and instead of calling for a recovery that may cost you $$$$$ (yes thousands of dollars) there may be some one listening 30 k away who can rescue you for less.

The conclusion is....
HF radio is very good but the down fall is everyone travelling with you must have a good understanding of how it works and how to use it and can be more beneficial then a Satellite phone and once mastered easier to use.... HF radio is more expensive and more complicated to set up and install.

Satellite phones can be as simple to use as a mobile phone but can become very expensive to use, may not be as good as HF in an emergency.... Satellite phones are cheaper then HF and are easy to set up and use.

Costs...
HF radio $1500 - $4000 (second hand to new)
Installation cost $300 - $1000
Access fee yearly $70 - $ 110
Incoming call costs $Free
Outgoing call costs $Usually free but can range up to a couple of $$ depending on services required like Email, SMS.
Cost for others to call you $Free

Satellite phone $400 - $1000 Hands free (second hand to new) up to $3000 with car kit
Installation cost $Free if used as a handheld, up to $1000 for car kit
Access fee yearly $0 - $1200 depending on plan ( some plans include calls)
Incoming call costs $Free
Outgoing call costs 40c to $10.00 per minute depending on plan and carrier.
Cost for other to call you $5.00 up to $20.00 per minute depending on carrier (if on Pivotel it's the cost of a Mobile call.



End of the day there is not on type of communications that is 100% perfect but with a HF radio and a sat phone you getting close to it.

HF is no better then Satellite phone and Satellite phone is no better then HF..... it's how you use it and what you want.

Best thing to have for travelling is Next G mobile, UHF, Satellite phone, HF and a PLB.

It comes down to what price you put on LIFE and sense on security.

Sure they seem expensive but it's not unusual for a 4x4er to spend $1000+ on 8 driving lights, $4000 on a HUGH suspension lift and $5000 on wheels and tyres.... plus all the other gear...... suppose a HF radio, PLB and Satellite phone doesn't have the same visual or bragging appeal as the other gear..... no use having all the other gear if you can't live to brag about it.

No matter what comms you have it's still cheap life insurance..... all depends on what's you priorities are.


And before all the knockers reply..... this is my views and I don't really care if you've travelled a million kilometres over 40 years and you have never needed comms and you think it's a waste of money!

All I know is I have most bases covered if some thing goes wrong.

This discussion comes up on a semi-regular basis, and usually there is a plethora of information provided, mostly in support of one or the other.

It shouldn’t come down to a debate over which is better, because the reality is that neither will outperform the other in various situations all the time. So your choice comes to one of two alternatives.

1/ Buy the one that will suit your needs best in most of the situations you feel you will find yourself in, or

2/ Buy both.

Thanks for all the great comments - good pros and cons for both.

As I am not all that wrapped in the HF community type stuff and I need something that can be easily moved from car to car I think that when the $$$ come available I will go the satphone route.

However the general broadcast/listening ability of the HF is a real plus but doesn't over ride my basic requirements.

Thanks to everyone who provided input.

Cheers

Garry