Loose wheels

Submitted: Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 14:27
ThreadID: 92585 Views:4199 Replies:11 FollowUps:11
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Just wondering how many bush drivers had my problem. A couple of trips ago I nearly lost my whole rig due to my sunraysia style steel rims working loose . The tyre fitter at broken hill said it was a common problem with those rims , I think its due to the flat stud cutouts . Either way every wheel came loose on that trip and more than once. I mark the nuts to the rim now and check daily - its something I think advisable for anyone travelling rough tracks.
Toyota 100 + K.Karavan
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 15:37

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 15:37
What about using a tension wrench and low strength locktite? Genuine steel wheels are usually the best!! Michael
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 15:58

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 15:58
Would have to be an incompatibility between nuts and rims it seems - I've been checking my hubs on my last two cars, a camper and now the van over 15 years on general bush travel and can't recall one ever coming loose (factory hubs all).
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Reply By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 16:25

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 16:25
NO... shouldn't happen.

Many thousands of ks, often with sunraysias and it's never happened to me...
except when my son the trainee tyre fitter [one week in] rotated the wheels for me and put the nuts on wrong way round!!!!! 12 years ago
AnswerID: 480642

Reply By: Bush Wanderer - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 17:11

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 17:11
George50,

Have come across this a number of times in the bush.
Corrugations can rattle everything loose, including wheel nuts.
Correctly torqued though, does go along way to preventing this from occurring. The correct nuts to matches the rims is very important. You won't be abel to use the factory nuts in most cases with different aftermarket rims.
My sister runs a tyre business in regional WA and rarely a day goes passed where people don't come in with the same issue.....torque settings and wrong nuts are the issue.

BW
AnswerID: 480647

Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 20:03

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 20:03
Check the angle of the chamfer on the nuts is the same as the chamfer angle on the rims & make sure the spigot on the hub is neat (snug) fit on the bore of the rim. Make sure the thread on the studs goes down far enough so the nuts aren't becoming thread bound and make sure there is no paint on the hub or the backside of the rims. Agree with all the other comments.
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Reply By: Member - Ed C (QLD) - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 17:21

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 17:21
Please define "flat stud cutouts"

All of the Sunraysia style wheels that I have ever seen, have the (industry standard I believe) 60º taper seats..
I don't understand what you mean by "flat stud cutouts" ???

As long as matching nuts (to suit rim seat taper) are used, and correctly torqued, there should be no issues...

That said, I got into the habit long ago, of regularly checkin' me nuts....
More so on any trip..

45-odd years driving (and many thousands km on rough tracks), and I am yet to have any issues whatsoever with loose wheel nuts.... (prob'ly jinxed meself with that comment ;-))


:)


Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 17:52

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 17:52
"That said, I got into the habit long ago, of regularly checkin' me nuts.... "

Do it every morning meself when I wake up.................

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Reply By: Mick O - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 17:51

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 17:51
George, Have a read of these two;


Replacing the standard Toyota wheel studs and wheel nuts

Review of Speedie sunraysi steel rims

and a watch of this;




Cheers Mick



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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 21:18

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 21:18
Hi Mick, It looks like in your case, the black wheels have a slightly bigger hole so it allows the taper seat nut to seat on the edge of the hole. I would be surprised if this is good engineering practice. As the knife edge of the hole collapsed from load on the nuts, the nut would loosen and the rest is obvious. Michael
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Follow Up By: spudseamus - Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 at 16:06

Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 at 16:06
yeahh great when you have all the right gear !! but guys why did one of you go under there with only 2 piddlin hyd jacks holdin her up ?? could have been a worse tragedy
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 at 19:13

Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 at 19:13
Spud,

Having all the right gear is not good fortune, rather good preparation and planning. There's actually three jacks under there of which one is a piddleing 5 tonne. The others are a 15T and a 10T respectively. With the wheels chocked and locked, the truck in gear and due consideration given to making it as safe as possible for the brief moment that I was under there doing what had to be done (Placing a 4th piddling scissor jack under the diff as I recall), I considered it safe. Averting an accident through planning and proper assesment is what you do when you're there on the spot.

Cheers Mick
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Reply By: george50 - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 18:00

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 18:00
OK , I'll check the taper on the nuts , but what I meant about flat cutouts was the rims sit flat on the hubs everywhere , not like the factory rims which have a raised section around the studs and hub which would flex against the hub and nuts and I assume give a better grip. By the way I give the nuts a bloody good heave .
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Follow Up By: Skippype - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 22:59

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 22:59
George50
The Toyota factory alloys, that come standard, have a different profile to the Sunrasia steel rims. You need to carry a spare set of nuts that have the same profile as the steel rims if you want to use them.
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Reply By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 19:37

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 19:37
I had an interesting and educational experience. I had been on an outback tour using my steel wheels which I keep for off-road trips instead of the Prado's alloys.

On return I was home in suburbia for a while and swapped the steelies out and replaced them with the OEM alloys. My next trip was all blacktop, so off I went on the alloys. I tow a 2200kg van.

To cut a long story short, the left rear wheel parted company from the Prado about 600km up the Pacific Hwy. Luckily I had felt something like a strong crosswind gust, or the buffet from a passing truck, but there was no wind and no passing trucks, so I had decided to stop and check. Just as well, because the wheel fell of as I was slowing at about 20kph in the breakdown lane. Up until then I had been doing 90.

The reason?

Well, I put it down to the different contact pattern between the steelies and the alloys on the hub and dirt under the alloy that fell off.

During the outback trip there was a small accumulation of dust and grit around where the steel wheels contacted the hubs.

When I swapped the wheels over, the first one I did was the left rear. I didn't wire brush the hub, I just installed the alloy and torqued it up.

When I did the other three I thought it would be a good idea to brush the hubs and wheels, which I did, but I didn't go back to the left rear, remove it, brush it and re-install. Laziness, I guess.

As I always do after changing wheels, after about 100km I re-torqued all the wheels, including the one that later fell off. There was no untoward looseness in any whell at that point. To no avail, apparently.

What I think happened was there was a small amount of grit under LH rear wheel that allowed the nuts to loosen, even after being re-torqued and, as they say, the rest is history.

This has been a big wake-up call. I now carry a wire brush as part of my wheel-changing kit and religiously use it to clean hubs and mating surfaces of the replacement wheel.

Cheers



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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 19:38

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 19:38
I have no idea why the above is centre-justified. I wrote it in Notepad, copied and pasted it.

Sorry about that.

F
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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 19:47

Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 at 19:47
I have had one sunraysia rim and a split rim give way but on the trailer. I put it down to - not checking the studs enough times on a long trip and the weight of the trailer when I have given it a flick with the steering wheel for some reason (road kill or such) puts undue strain sideways on the trailer wheels giving a chance for studs to stretch and nuts to loosen.

Also I was running aftermarket nuts and have a suspicion they where not as good a quality as OEM.

Had sunraysias on the previous car without a problem - well not quite no problems. When I first bought them I found on picking up my car they had fitted 8in wide rims even though not what I had ordered. They assured me that would be alright. In 4 weeks I had split 3 sunraysia rims along the the bend that the bead locks onto. After that the shop replaced them with 7.5 sunraysias and of a reputable brand.

Cheers

Serendipity

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Reply By: Member - *Rusty* - Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 at 00:04

Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 at 00:04
We have completely lost a wheel on our patrol wagon towing a fully loaded camper trailer on a back road in south WA due to the studs snapping on new years day 2011, my parter did very well not to put us on the lid. The factory studs on the alloy rims had a "saftey notice" so we found out afterwards on the rear passanger wheel - but Nissan wanted to have no part of it and said because they didnt issue a "recall" they had no responsibility even though every second person who owns a GQ wagon you talk to it has happened to. Somewhat less with GU's but still an issue - so we found out. Did a few thousand $$ worth of dammage - was 3 months off getting rating 1 on our iinsurance of course....so my premium is rediculous now!.

We also almost lost the rear passanger wheel on our patrol GQ ute a few years ago. That one was due to a misaligned tyre when the nuts were put on.

We now carry complete sets of spare studs for car and trailer! (Try finding Nissan Patrol GU Rear wheel studs on new years day half way between 2 little country towns! Drove home on 2 correct studs and 4 bolts from an old holden head!
AnswerID: 480680

Reply By: george50 - Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 at 13:29

Sunday, Mar 18, 2012 at 13:29
Thanks for all the helpful replies guys. I've had another look at the trims and nuts etc. . The rims are made in Brasil , but apart from the centre hole being about 4mm too large in diameter and not supporting weight on the hub centre as the factory rims do , I see no problems , the stud holes are tapered as are the nuts as supplied. The studs are threaded ok to allow for correct seating. The problem must have been [1] rims were new and I didn't file off the powdercoat or clean the hubs correctly . [2] Nuts were not torqued after installation. [3] 5000Km of corrugations, potholes,etc. and no thread lock means you should bloody CHECK them regularly ! Adios .
AnswerID: 480707

Follow Up By: Member - DingoBlue(WA) - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 at 01:01

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 at 01:01
Just a quickie..the wheel shouldn't bear on the hub. The wheel is supported by the studs and correctly tapered wheel nuts.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 at 09:44

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 at 09:44
Rubbish. The wheel should indeed be firm on the hub. The wheel studs just hold it in place.
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Follow Up By: george50 - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:38

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:38
Have to agree with mrbitchi there , the standard rims sit tight and even have small relief notches for the hub dome clips to hook behind. I'll never buy another rim that doesn't support there.
george.
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Follow Up By: Member - DingoBlue(WA) - Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 at 19:22

Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 at 19:22
Depends on whether your vehicle wheels are Hubcentric or Lugcentric. Often after market wheels have a larger bore than standard and quite often are supplied with plastic rings to centralise the wheel on the hub. If the load was supposed to be transmitted to the hub by the centre bore, I don't think that plastic spacers would cope too well.
I tend to try and get wheels with hub bores as close to the hub diameter as possible but it's not imperative on Lugcentric rims.
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