Does an LPG 4WD belong in the bush?

You can hardly blame the LPG system for clogged petrol injectors!

As mentioned in your other thread, I have injected LPG on my Toyota V6 and it is sensational. Costs next to nothing to run ($60 for 400km) and I can drive 700km without filling :)

In one respect LPG adds further complexity to an engine which means more to go wrong but like anything if a quality system is installed & maintained there is no reason it can't be run successfully in the bush.
After being a diesel owner for 26 years I now have my 1st petrol/gas 4by & so far it's all been good. The extra power has been brilliant particually on the sand & fuel cost will see the system paid for in less than 2 years. To get the range, a few jerry's need to be carried at times plus closer attention paid to consumption & distance travelled while in the desert but nothing that can't be managed.
"Does an LPG 4WD belong in the bush?" A few years ago I would have said no. Now with improved systems, engines that are better suited to gas plus more availabilty I've being converted ;-)
Cheers Craig.............

No I don't think LPG belongs in the bush.

You can not legally do any repairs to the LPG system, neiter can a mechanic without a gas ticket...there are plenty of mechanics in the city who don't have gas tickets......how ya gona be out in Outerwhykickamoocow

That alone makes LPG a problem in the bush.

Range is a significant problem, its not like you can just carry a few jerries of LPG arround.

Yes you can refuel LPG from bottles......I have done it.....but it is a complicated process and you need to carry compressed nitrogen as well as the LPG....and the legality is um interesting.

LPG is also one of the least compact fuels to carry. LPG has a low fuel value per litre and the containers are bulky with it....basicaly it occupies arround twice the space once you get it in a container.

Due to carbon pricing polocies, LPG will continue to increase in price over the next couple of years till it is no cheaper than liquid fuels such as petrol and diesel.

Then there is the reliability of supply..sure you will get LPG in major towns and highways, but past that, forget it.

For short trips, yeh fine, but if you are talking about remote touring, forget it.

chrres

Hi Grant, here's my thoughts.

It all depends what you call the bush. If its a National Park 200kms return from home, its one thing.

If its a 4000 kms round trip taking in say the CSR and Gun barrel then that's a entirely different proposition.
Where will you get LPG out there,
What if it needs repair on the track
Can you carry enough petrol to compensate not having LPG
Increased risk of spinifex fires due to increased fuel burn temps
etc etc.

Would I buy a LPG vehicle for remote off road touring - No.

cheers

Grant, I hardly think that your (misdiagnosed?) problem with a $40 switch and obviously sad petrol injectors is reason to give people the wrong idea about LPG's suitability 'in the bush '. Single fuel LPG in remote areas is as silly as a steam power bicycle however a well-specified dual fuel LPG/Petrol vehicle has many advantages for many (not all) people over both single fuel petrol and diesel vehicles

Hi all, this is the graph sending shivers down the spine of LPG users.Image Could Not Be Found
European winter freeze partly responsible for price hike of 20 cents in 3 months , but greedy Aussie wholesalers tacked on another 10c so my local Sydney LPG has gone from 53 to 82 cpl.Melbourne is only 73 but Darwin $1.06. OK all you guys on petrol/diesel throw your rotten eggs now. LOL I know you're not sympathetic.

My two bobs worth on above debate. I have had LPG vehicles since '91, HT Holden 186, Tarago 2litre carby then Spacia 2.4injected? and two Pathfinders 3.3 . Thought it was bullet proof until #6 injector seized open on Pathy #2 last year. Wasn't identified as such by myself nor mechanic. Should have been a mere clean injectors and replace #6 for say $500. Nearly 3 grand later and heads off, seats done and now LH rocker cover seal leaks oil.
Now if injector had gone west of Mt Isa a substantial towing fee plus van and $$$$. I was lucky that it went at home.
Overall for me I have compared a mates diesel Prado for a 10K outback trip and 15K around town. He's ahead by $300 - my petrol/gas bill is $4,300, his is $4,000.
I use the LPG tank - 65 litres - as a reserve so run on petrol using jerries if need be and estimate when to switch to gas to arrive at servo almost empty to refill... Cheers...W

Hi there Grant, (I think I replied to your last post ??) cant remember, but there is no way I will ever go back to LPG, I would sell my 120 prado petrol V6 before I go LPG and buy a vitara if need be just so I can still get out there. I hated it, my own fault not investigating it more in regards to range I lost due to the 90L main been removed. Useless for towing or where heavy throttle was required eg towing a big load or on the beach. The guage moved that quick to the empty position was unbelievable and didnt have the torque/power on the sand. I could tell the difference big time flicking between the two while on the beach to try it out. And now as mentioned the price of the LPG starting to climb north it will take a long while to get the $$ back but the rebate has dropped since i had mine done. Certainly suits others but not myself. And now Im even noticing people with diesels always seem to be after that extra grunt (not if you own a 200 series T/D lol) and with chips been roughly $1500, exhaust the same theres 3g already that people have paid out for more power where I just plant the foot in the 120 have 179kw and 380nm torque and yes use a tad more fuel but will take me a while to use 3grands worth of fuel others have used on there T/D's to get more grunt. There is always the talk/debates of which is better in terms of running cost/servicing etc petrol/diesel/gas/diesel,gas. Ive had diesel/turbo diesel/petrols/ and at the moment am loving the petrol. Few years ago if you asked me I was all for turbo diesel only but not so much now. These new D4D's and things are to the extreme in my opinion for replacement parts,injectors,pumps if they stuff up out of warranty, WOW I'd need to apply for a loan just to get them back on the road again, BUT if I had the $$$ to back me up and could afford one, it would have to be the 200 series 60th anniversary model in T/D, what a vehicle......

For someone who is city based and doing big k's and vehicle is mostly business use then it may be viable as usually business vehicles are replaced every few years and all costs are tax deductible. For a private user that cannot write costs off to tax and is actually paying for the fuel it doesn't make sense despite vehicles being kept for ten years or more. Length of ownership also brings another biggie into the equation, after ten years the gas installation has to have certain bits replaced and the tank has to be inspected which runs to over $1k at current rates which puts a huge dent in any savings. Lower power output, the hassle getting rego inspections each year (not many inspection places do gas inspections) and the problems due to the petrol side of things not being used continuously has led to quite a few lpg setups being removed from 4wd's that I know of.

Re the original post;
Been there and done that and would never go there again. My experience with LPG resulted in poorer fuel economy and less range per tank, where LPG was available. For remote travel I had to rely on petrol, which defeats the whole purpose of fitting LPG.

I switched to a diesel 4wd and won't be changing from this in the near future.

WBS

OzHUmvee, you are incorrect: Cheaper fuel and cheaper overall running costs is cheaper fuel and cheaper overall running costs - no matter what your ATO paperwork, logbook etc has written in it.

The world has moved on from busted-arse LPG systems with the technical standards of a dribbling bathroom tap... Today's EFI systems have none of the old driveability/power issues. Yes, there are tank hardware considerations, but thsi costs, what, $40 and 20 mins extra annually?!!

Kimba, it is a shame you didn't do more research (or were wrongly advised) etc when selecting your LPG hardware and hence lost your Prado's touring range. But once again, you can hardly blame "LPG" for that. If touring range is/was a priority, best practise is to install a long range petrol tank as a main, and supplement it with cheaper, gooderer LPG when in urban situations.

Warrie, mechanical maladies are part and parcel of vehicle ownership - by chance, your "LPG" problem could just have easily been a blocked petrol injector. As frustrating and expensive as that incorrect diagnosis must have been at the time, you can't blame the LPG system for this, your situation is not a reason for someone to NOT consider an LPG conversion.

Anyhow, LPG may not be for everyone, in the bush or not, but there are NO reasons why LPG can't be (and plenty of reasons why it can be) part of the hardware in an off-road/touring vehicle.

In some situations it is a better choice (for performance and costs) then OE diesel (model for model).

I think it is a shame the original poster of this (and another) thread felt he needed to sacrifice all the advantages of LPG for the sake of some routine maintenance and a $40 switch!

Well, there I was reading away, & absorbing the varying points of view on this gas
thing...all good stuff methinks. Then GT says you are all wrong...so I'm back to square one & confused.
I agree with Ohumvee re the difference tax deductability makes to running costs,
& the failure to grasp that theory must make running a business involving vehicles
a real nightmare..IMHO...but apparently ,we are both wrong...there you go..:))))).
cheers......oldbaz.

My truck is dual fuel has an early 90s LPG system so not the most efficent. But it runs and runs and requires little maintenance and provides out safety factor when out bush - two separate fuel systems gives a bit of piece of mind.

I have not noticed much of a loss of power in my V8 but it does use a bit more fuel on LPG compared to petrol - HOWEVER given the difference in cost of fuels it still costs a 1/3 less to run on gas - engine maintenance costs are also better because lpg burns hotter and cleaner so the oil is cleaner and there is less carbon build up.

Yes out west there are not a lot of LPG suppliers so I always take the opportunity to fill with gas - in these conditions I run on petrol until within 250km of a known LPG outlet and then switch to LPG - keeping the gas in reserve provides me with security in case I have issues with a fuel pump or something similar. I get 300km out of my LPG tank offroad and 400km on the highway.

As far as the original posters issues - these were not caused by the LPG.

Garry

I am lucky to have best of both worlds, i drive daily an Ford FG gas only ute, and can say i have been very impressed in its economy and performance, and looking forward to upgrading to the new injected 190kw model later this year when the current one lease is up. My weekend warrior /touring 4wd is a 120s prado 1KZ diesel,which i find has adequate power/performance ,a great touring range and suits my needs as a tourer. When i was replacing my prev V6prado i considered a 120 sV6,then gasing it ,but was turned off by other peoples experiences of gas converted car/4wds and the problems that can present with these converted vehicles . I think most of the problems can be traced back to either poor workmanship in the aftermarket fitting and or poor quality components that may be used on some conversions, like the said $40 switch part. I guess if it was a dedicated system [factory fitted] like Ford and Holden are doing that was fitted to a 4wd then i would consider one for bush travel,but to have an aftermarket kit fitted then i would want to know that the fitter was good at his trade and the kit was the best available, but then finding that out would be difficult i would imagine, especially if the industry was feed with inflated price because there is money to be made when there is a govt rebate on hand.
Russ

I think this is really a ‘horses for courses’ type question. It really depends on what you want to achieve. I think Phil noted earlier it your are intending to go down the CSR, or do similar type of treks, than committing to a fuel system that you can’t get fuel for in many places is probably not the best way to go.

When we rebuilt ‘The Landy’ we looked at many options, including LPG, but it would never achieve the range we wanted if it was a combination of diesel and LPG, as LPG is not available in many of the places we would travel.

On the other hand, if by the bush you mean somewhere close by to where LPG is available, than I’m sure it would be a worthy consideration.

I doubt there is a one answer fits all questions in this instance...

Cheers, The Landy