Dust in the air intake
Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 14:50
ThreadID:
9417
Views:
3068
Replies:
6
FollowUps:
4
This Thread has been Archived
Jonesy56
I have a 3l Nissan Patrol ST diesel. It has 18,000 km on the clock. On a trip from
Broome to Kalumbaru (Dusty) my mate had engine problems. He has the same vehicle as me. His air intake sensor broke and he lost power. We changed air filters in an attempt to rectify the problem as we did not know that the sensor had died. In doing so we noticed that dust had got past his filter and into the intake tube.
I had my vehicle serviced and checked when I got back to
Broome and the report read - in part - "No evidence of ingress of duxt into the turbo system." A few months later driving to
Perth the engine warning light came on. - No evidence of contaminated fuel but the light went off after draining the fuel filter. This happened a couple of times when the I was overtaking - a slight loss of power - and the light came on. It would go off after stopping.
I reached
Perth and checked the air filter and I notice dust had got past the filter. I cracked the turbo intake tube and sure enough it is dusty! The dealer says 'no way dust can get past that filter!' I fear I may be in for a fight hear. Has anyone out there experienced the same problem?
Regards
Reply By: Doylie - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 17:13
Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 17:13
A lot could be said of course, but the important things are: 1. Fix the problem now yourself - don't expect the dealer or the parent to be interested - they should be, but all you will get is bullsheet in return (verbal or written). 2. Consider an after market filtration wet foam type filter....it may not be suitable for your engine but the Unifilter on my 99 TD 3.0 Jack works really
well. Performance is great.... and the dust has to try and pass 3 layers of oily foam.... it rarely gets past the first layer. Servicing the filter takes a bit of patience, but I've cracked the method now.
As said, some engines don't like the tiny droplets of oil from the filter that may run past the inlet sensors, but the Jack is happy. If wet foam is no-go, try making some top and bottom seals for your filter cannister, and then moving to a different brand of paper element.... sealing should be easily achieved if you muck around with it. If we saw these vehicles being churned out on production lines all over the planet, we would probably not be surprised at this level of fundamental error. I noticed the other day that the Hilux is built in about 15 different world factories, simultaneously. "This is a situation, up with which, we should no longer put ! (W. Churchill, on plans to reduce 4WD access in some parks).
AnswerID:
41450
Follow Up By: Member - AndrewPatrol - Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 01:12
Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 01:12
There has been several incidences of malfunctions in the air flow meter in Patrols put down to useage of these oiled foam filters. Better NOT to use than gain "potential but not proven" benifits.
FollowupID:
304003
Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 10:12
Monday, Jan 05, 2004 at 10:12
The only problem with oiled foam elements is when owners get a bit exited when oiling them, Especially with the thick finer filter oil, it is hard to squeeze the excess back out of them. I prefer the castrol filter oil as it covers readily and squeezes out easily so the element is not over oiled.
I lost count of the amount of finer filters that i fitted to diesel rodeos under warranty at Holden, because the standard elements were not sufficient and a lot of motors were getting "dusted". Holden were happy with the extra ability of the foam units.................
And every time you do a service, you can give the hotwire element in the AFM a squirt with some carby cleaner if you are concerned with any oil particles on it.Moo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)
FollowupID:
304244
Reply By: joc45 - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 17:25
Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 17:25
I have been told that if the filter element is mounted with the soft rubber seal downwards (the other side has a firmer seal), the element can sink a bit due to its weight, causing dust ingress over the top of the element. Despite this, I find that there is a very fine deposit on the air duct, even when the filter is correctly fitted.
I had a problem with my 4.2TD, where the plastic air duct into the turbo came loose, air completely bypassing the filter. This was in the
Pilbara of WA - the motor had sucked in quite a bit of dust. It had only been serviced 10k beforehand by Nissan. I put it down to Nissan not tightening the clamp properly at the service when changing the air cleaner, but Nissan reckoned that they don't remove that clamp when servicing the vehicle. Hmmmm.
I asked if they had had this problem before, and they said no, but they were "aware of the problem" (!!?? if it hasn't occurred before, how are they aware of the problem?) They also reckoned that the clamp needs regular checking, as oil from the breather softens the rubber in the duct, and as such the duct has a limited life and should be replaced periodically (!!). I asked if they had put out a bulletin on this, or if their service schedule had been modified to this effect, but they said there were no directives to this effect.
They did a compression check, and all was normal, thankfully. Oil consumption no change, so I may have been lucky.
So now, according to them I must check the clamp every few thousand and replace the duct periodically.
So 4.2TD owners, check that duct into the turbo to see if it is coming loose. Would be interested to know if anyone else has had this problem.
Gerry
AnswerID:
41452
Follow Up By: Goran - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 18:35
Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 18:35
All paper filters do let a bit of fine dust particles trough. That is why oiled foam filters are so popular. Nearly every enduro motorcycle comes with this tupe of filter from factory. They do work but they are not idiot proof. Providing you take care when cleaning and fitting they will perform 100% better than paper filters. Once you learn how to service them properly you will be glad you swiched to them.
FollowupID:
303993
Follow Up By: desray - Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 23:10
Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 23:10
JOC 45 is right on with the air filter /seals , the filter is sometimes fitted upside down and lets a lot of dust through. Ryco make a filter with a stiff foam top and bottom and is compressed when fitted , works a lot better.
FollowupID:
304036
Reply By: Jonesy56 - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 21:08
Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 21:08
Thanks for your responses guys
Jonesy
AnswerID:
41457
Reply By: Mike - Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 23:39
Wednesday, Dec 31, 2003 at 23:39
Sounds like there could be a fair bit of bull dust in the answers from the service agent. Problem is determining which is worse, the dust in the tube to the turbo or the bull dust from the service agent. I think you are wise to investigate the matter thoroughly, and quickly.
Mike & Jan
GU 4.2td.
AnswerID:
41459
Reply By: 10 Para- Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 11:04
Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 11:04
does this dust problem only happen with diesel engines or with petrol as wellHome For Xmas
AnswerID:
41466
Reply By: brad in West Aust - Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 13:22
Thursday, Jan 01, 2004 at 13:22
I have just bought my 3lt patrol 77000 km the other week and it to stuffed the air intake sensor on the way home from a short
camp. After reading all the negative reports I did think the worst for its out come. I have dropped power and it would not pull the skin off a rice pudding. Our local dealer said it has happened before and will happen again to other cars because the sensors they use are not the same as the ones they are replacing.
I drive on dirt roads alll the time and all the other owners in this area also do too, and with my car being the first to have a problem of this sort. With our small town it has 5 turbo diesels here and there has been 2 faults in the past 3 years I know off,
mine and a broken fuel filter wire. With so much negativity out their on these vehicles, I am supprised there is still a big market for them. I feel it is just a few badly made vehicles that have burnt the so few people.
With dust beating your filter you should see evidence of it passing the seals if that is a cause because their will be a trail their. I would see how the piping is connected or any cracks before changing out a filtration system.
Brad
AnswerID:
41476