Mazda BT50 (Ranger) not suitable for carrying loads on rough roads

Hi Muzbry,

Thanks for the reply. The new meduim duty utes (like the BT50) just don't seem to be strong enough to carry a camper on corrogated roads. Now I need to decide on a replacement and save up some dollars.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Will,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I thought the BT50 would be a vehicle that would serve as a great touring vehicle, but unfortunately I have been proven wrong. It looks like only the heavy duty 4WD utilities will cut it in the outback.

Cheers, Geoff

Mazda BT50 Freestyle Cab Chassis with steel tray. Build date Nov 2007.

Hi Ash,

No I don't run rear airbags - had been warned against these in the early days and had seen plenty of chassis breaks. Unfortunately this didn't help me.

I did the chassis extension as part of the full repair of the chassis. I had though of doing it when I first purchased the vehicle but was put off by the high cost. In hindsight, probably should have done it.

Talking with the specialist repairer, they are seeing plenty of bent axle housings coming through their doors. Cause in their opinion - overloading. First sign is premature failure of rear bearings. Right across the range of 4 cylinder utes but particularly Hilux's.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the reply. The BT50 is all fixed and good as new - unfortunately good as new just doesn't cut it!

I am looking closely at the Landcruiser and are well aware of their problems (several friends have them), but they seem the only viable option for carrying a slideon camper at present. Yes, I've looked at the Patrol and Defender but they both have greater potential issues than the cruiser.

I've looked at the new BT50 (prior to this last failure) and they do have a larger chassis, but they seem to still have the same rear running gear and Mazda have struck me off their christmas card list! No new Mazda for me.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Geoff,

Not wanting to start anything, but what greater potential issues do you see with the Defender?

Kelvin

Hi Kevin,

A good friend I regularly travel with has a defender. While it is a great vehicle off-road, it is uncomfortable to travel in especially if you are taller. Also Land Rovers (in my opinion) require specialist treatment - need servicing at dedicated outlets - whereas Toyota's/Nissan's are pretty well known throughout the country.

I think you are either born a Land Rover fan or not - unfortunately (or fortunately) I am not.

Cheers, Geoff

Like Phil we've seen some horrible things happen to most of the midweight utes on outback roads and tracks. It scares me when I see twincab utes loaded to the gunnels and then towing another 1500kg's of camper off the back as they are an accident waiting to happen.
The worst we've ever seen was on the north coast of NSW earlier this year we caught up with a vehicle towing a caravan on a hill (a mean feat in an Oka!) and as we went past noticed at least a 250mm gap between the top of the canopy on the ute and the cab.
About 20 mins later we both pulled into a rest area and when I came back from the loo he was standing looking at his very new Ford ute with a look of horror. We had a squiz underneath and the chassis had bent under the rear of the cab.
He remembered hitting a dip on a back road earlier in the morning but this was the first stop for morno's.
He didn't seem to be overloaded as the only thing in the ute was a little gennie and some fishing gear and the van was an older single axle poptop about 16' long.
Wasn't helped by his wife's comment that they should have kept the 60 series!!

Hi Rags,

Hopefully other's will have a better run out of their vehicles than I. I believed the marketing and reviews when I bought my BT50, unfortunately to my detriment.

The bottom line is that if you are going to load a load in rough conditions, any of the medium duty 4WD's such as the BT50 will not cut it.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Rags,

The above story is all a little worrying! I recently bought a 2010 Ford Ranger & are in the process of planning a Simpson Crossing in July, including Birdsville, Oodnadatta Tracks etc.

Fingers crossed it fares better than the above mentioned BT50. I do not have a slide on camper, but will obviously "living" out of the car for 2 weeks, carrying additional fuel & water etc.....

Will keep you updated upon my return.

Cheers,

High Geoff and Jo Q

sorry to hear that you have had such a bad experience with your Mazda. We purchased a 2008 Ford Ranger XLT twin cab and have had no concerns what so ever.

Last year we travelled the Oodnadatta, Birdsville, Camerons corner etc fully loaded and towing a fully packed trailer. The Ranger did what we needed it to do and we had no troubles what so ever. It's a shame, maybe you got a Friday special.

Cheers Steven and Kerry

Hi Steven & Kerry - good to hear. I am looking forward to the trip with hopefully no car problems! :)

Cheers,

Hi Steven & Kerry,

I wish you well with your Ranger. My BT50 has been a great car to drive, and the extra cab terrific for space on trips. Unfortunately the vehicle has not been up to the task of carrying our camper in the outback, so it is time to move on.

Keep a close eye on the chassis and suspension components, minmise the load you carry, and hopefully you don't have the same experiences I have had.

Cheers, Geoff

Thanks Geoff,

Shall keep an eye out for any problems. Will be off on a 3 month trip this June, mostly sealed roads this trip with some outback adventures. Being forewarned is being forearmed.

Cheers and all the best with your new vehicle.

Steve and Kerry

Hi Leanne,

Thanks for your reply and comments. The BT50 is all fixed but no good to carry our camper - unfortunately time to look for another vehicle!

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Glenn,

I have had the vehicle weighed and re-engineered when getting the chassis extended last year. The weight with all accessories fitted (bullbar, winch, side steps, roof rack etc) was 2300kg. The GVM of the BT50 is 3050kg and the slideon camper I carry weighs 400kg. Fully loaded I am still well below the GVM.

The tyres have even wear, perhaps it's just the photograph. After this event the suspension was also checked and no problems found.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Geff,
To Clarify you coment.
2300kg plus 400kg for the camper then two people Fuel water, fridge and food etc. Wouldn't this put you close to your GVM. Then corrigations...
I am to the understanding that the maximum GVM is based on on-road higway conditions and when taking the car off road one should make allowances for the conditions.
I have a 2003 Hilux duel cab with rear airbags (used when towing my caravan on sealed roads to a maximum of 20psi). My car is used for severe off road driving and has never to date had a issue. Its limitation is that when I pack I never come close to the GVM.

Craig

Hi Craig,

Yes, you are right about all the extras but it still comes out below the GVM. In hindsight I have expected too much of the BT50 - it (and other medium duty utes) are just not suited to carrying a slide on camper in the outback.

I pushed my previous vehicle (dual cab Hilux) a lot harder than the BT50 and basically had many trouble free years of travel with it. The places we have taken the BT50 are pretty sedate compared to stuff I've done before, and we have really used the BT50 as a light duty tourer. Unfortunately the new vintage of utes are designed differently and not as strong as before.

Hope you get many more years out of your Hilux - I managed 15 years from mine before I changed to the BT50.

Cheers, Geoff

The new BT50 does look a little stronger, but my opinion is that it will not hold up much better than my model. The drivetrain still looks the same, so I doubt that anything has changed there.

I agree that all brands and models have problems. My main point is that the BT50 and other medium duty 4WD utilities are not suitable for carrying slide on campers in rough (outback) conditions - you need a heavy duty 4WD to do this task successfully.

Cheers, Geoff

I think in the current model the new drive train bears little resemblance to the old,new 3.2 motor ,6speed auto or manual ,locking rear diff. I think it has been unfortunate the problems that have plagued you with a now superceeded model, and may be a good warning for people who may be looking at one of these models as a used vehicle, but to make the assumption that the new current models may also be no different is a little unfair, i do beleive that these new models are a vast improvement over the old

Hi Rags,

From what I've seen the new model looks better, however time will tell on how robust it is. I still believe that it will not be suitable for carrying loads in rough conditions - again time will tell. I certainly will not be taking that risk.

Another point is that Mazda have not been interested in assisting me in any way once the warranty expired. I suppose I expected that, nevertheless it is disappointing.

Cheers, Geoff

"As far as I know, GVM is designed/tested/calibrated for on-highway driving only (no extreme stress due to corrugations) ...but I'm not sure if any manufacturer ever publishes a 'reduce by' or percentage (eg: reduce weight by 50%) figure for off-road conditions. "


Your comment reminded me of the email below that I received from Mitsubishi after asking a few questions about the towing capacity of the Triton. I would say that would apply to all vehicles, unless specifically stated by the manufacturer, and would include carrying capacity as well.

---------------------------------------------------------------
We acknowledge receipt and thank you for your recent enquiry regarding the Mitsubishi Triton.
Please be advised that Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd (MMAL) only release towing specifications for vehicles being used under normal conditions such as highway driving. We would not recommend towing this amount while driving on 4WD tracks or surfaces of this nature. The 3 Tonne towing capacity is a statement of the maximum permissible towing weight possible for this vehicle.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Kind Regards,
Simon
Mitsubishi Customer Assistance Centre
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back in my National Service days, I drove an old WW2 6x6 Studebaker truck at a driver training school. It was rated at only 2.5 tons carrying capacity despite having three axles, ten big wheels and a chassis like a tank. I initially thought it was an over cautious limit placed on it by the Army. I discovered years later on the net that it was the capacity specified by Studebaker. It was the maximum it could reliably carry in the worst conditions likely to be encounted.

This is just common sense. You can't expect a vehicle to carry and tow the same loads along a bush track as easily as it will do it on a highway.

The Army's solution to carrying a lot of gear with its Landrovers was to use a trailer instead of trying to beef them up. The little number 5 that has been in use since the mid 1960s weighs about 360 kg and will carry 500. That means it will carry close to the entire capacity of a Landcruiser and, when fully loaded, is only one quarter of its towing capacity. You would have to go out of your way to try and break a Cruiser in the bush with one of those hooked up behind and just mum dad and the kids and about 100 kg in the back. If you put the lot into and on top of the car and strengthened the sagging suspension, that is when you can expect chassis cracks, broken wheel studs and cracked diff housings.

The other issue is the weight/mass problem that Collyn Rivers was stressing in those links I posted in thread 93028. Weight is static only. It is way above that as the car is bouncing along rough roads or is swinging at the ends of a long caravan. I think Collyn said it increases by the square of the rate of acceleration or something like that.

Whatever is behind the axle on those utes becomes a huge moving mass and slams down hard on the suspension and diff housing when the wheels drop into a depression in the road. It then has to be caught by the housing and heaved back up again a split second later. The further it is from the axle, the worse it gets.

We had a Colorado at work that carried a constant , but under GVM load that suffered from spring sag and the bump stops sitting half an inch off the spring. When taken to Holden to ask what is going on we were told that loads on or near the GVM should only be intermittent and definitely not long term. We informed them that it was 300kg's under the GVM, they measured and ho-hummed and pronounced it within specs. So if you want to carry a decent load for extended periods I don't see many of these light 4wd's being usable.

Splits , far as I know the 'Green Machine' still follows a rule that they have allways had ,,, If a manufacturer claims 10 ton carry weight for a truck the Green Machine calls it a 5 ton truck and pity the poor private who dares to overload it .....

Hi Tezza,

Thanks for your reply and good wishes. Have started weighing up the various options and seeing how far the finances will stretch. Our plans for any trips in Autumn have been shelved for the moment, hopefully can get something sorted in the near future.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Robin,

Thanks for your reply and good wishes. The vehicle failures on the BT50 could have been much worse - at least we were not injured and have managed to get things repaired in the end. It's just the bank balance that's taken a hit.

Time to look for something more suitable for outback travel.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Ralph,

Thanks for your reply. The last failure on the BT50 was the straw that broke the camels back - time to move to a stronger ute. I was hoping to get a few more years out of the BT50 but that is not going to happen. Time to save up and start looking.

Cheers, Geoff

Geoff, you always have to wonder which straw it was. Ralph, there have been bent or cracked Nissan chassis talked about on EO many times in the past. Coil ones in particular have bent spring towers, but one notable member was towing his CT to the start of a Simpson crossing cracked near a tray support. Nissan differentials have caused our family some pain too, as well as bent spring towers.

Hi Dave,

I wish you luck with your new vehicle. As I have stated in other replies, the new BT50/Ranger does appear to have a stronger chassis, but I still believe that it will be unsuitable in the long term for carrying a camper on the rough outback roads. Again time will tell.

My model BT50 won the 4x4 car of the year when released, and all the magazines were full of praise for the vehicle. I too did a lot of research on what vehicle would best meet may needs - unfortunately I was wrong. I think that the new BT50/Ranger matches up well with the other meduim duty utilities on the market, however I don't believe that any of this class now has the strength to cope with outback conditions.

Cheers, Geoff

Well said Rob,
Vehicle choice is usually a compromise of one one thing or another and we need to be realistic with expectations. We would all love a bullet proof rig that can go anywhere, run on the smell of an oily rag, carry everything including the kitchen sink and have the turning circle of zero turn ride-on mower - but it just aint gunna happen. I'm happy with my BT50 and understand its limitations (which is pertty similar to its other stable mates D-max triton etc) but in general, the compromise suits our needs.
As Geoff has said many times in this thread - the BT50 & other medium duty 4x4 utes are not up to the job he has asked of it. A lesson that I'm happy to learn the easy way rather than try for myself.

Ash

To be fait to Geoff he has stated that the chassis was modified AFTER it broke.

Peter

I hope that you have a better run with your vehicle than me. The chassis does look stronger, but I would be ensuring that you keep your loads down especially in rough conditions.

I used Tough Dog shocks which have been good - maybe give them a try.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi J&D,

The chassis extension was done by wide bay motors, and they cut the chassis just behind the cab on the freestyle. It was then extended and re-inforced by more than a metre both sides of the cut point - they did a really good job.

The extension was approximately 400mm to bring the rear axle into the centre of the 2200mm tray.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Murray,

Thanks for your reply and comments. I think you have done the right thing going back to a single cab and getting the load central - I was hoping that the chassis extension would do that for me but last failure with the axle has tipped me over the edge.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Mick,

Thanks for your reply and comments. The idea of this post was to highlight the problems that I have had that perhaps others may learn from my mistakes. The main mistake was thinking that the medium duty ute such as the BT50 would handle rough conditions with a constant load of approximately 600kg.

I have taken the BT50 in rough areas but no-where as tough as I put my previous vehicle through (Hilux Dual Cab 89 model 2.8 turbo) and it lasted 15 years. The majority of the BT50's life has been travelling to work and back unloaded, but 4wd trips include the Simpson desert, CSR and a few vic high country trips.

Hopefully anyone looking at carrying slideon campers will steer away from the medium duty 4WD utes if they are thinking of travelling to the outback - my experience is that they just don't cut it.

Cheers, Geoff

Hi Carlo,

Keep an eye on the chassis - mine cracked on the bend section just past the cabin (have an extra/freestyle cab) and I was carrying about 600kg. As mentioned in this post, the axle housing also gave up the ghost.

The BT50 seems OK if you mainly do the black-top, but it's a different matter if you hit the outback roads.

No warning for either big failures.

Cheers, Geoff