4WDers need to to slow down

Submitted: Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:19
ThreadID: 94891 Views:3121 Replies:14 FollowUps:21
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Tell me what it is with these guys and there flash 4WDs with every thing set up to the max,some of them just think they own the road,I'm not here to bash those that have got every thing but there are few out there that they think they own the road,twice on on our travels through the Gorges last week end up around Parachilna we incounted 2 4wds on the wrong side of the road on a bend coming towards us {you reckon he's eyes did'nt lit up when he seen me} on the road going into Blinman and going like the shower of u know what ,i just don't understand it hay, maybe it's the ego thing or is it,i'v got the best set up on my rig so i can do what i like and as fast,in the end one day these drivers will come unstuck it just annoy's the crap out of me cause it's these kind of people that will put some one in hospital in a bad way.cheer's GREENDOG
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:56

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:56
Did you really never feel the need for speed Greendog - some of our speed limits are so slow and out of touch that the bigger danger is of going to sleep thru boredom.

Still , staying on the right side of the road would be appreciated and I agree that shower others with stones is not acceptable.

I was out putting the latest BT50 thru its paces today and even on dirt roads it was able to pull up very fast and straight at sight of on coming traffic.
Robin Miller

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AnswerID: 483110

Reply By: cookie1 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:17

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:17
Know what you mean, we were there last week and it was the buisiest I have ever seen it, we likened it to Rundle Street, it may have been the Landrover event up in Blinman.

There are some really nice things to see if they slowed down enough to see them, we were only there for one day and that was enough for us.


AnswerID: 483112

Follow Up By: GREENDOG ! - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:28

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:28
Yeah Colin, we went into Blinman on the Sunday and it was a struggle to get a park,as we were having a Frothy in the Pub a group came in and one of the ladies ask where the Balfours Bakery was LOL just about spat me beer out in laughter.cheers GD
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Reply By: Ross M - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:26

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:26
Didn't you know, while they are on the road it is theirs, and you are expected to respect this fact.
If it is any consolation the 4wd forums are full of troubles being had by people who go fast and wear out their vehicles prematurely and experience the most unusual faults.

Their, I've gotta have it now attitude is normal for it feeds their ego.
It is just a matter of mind over matter. They don't mind and you don't matter.

Ross M
AnswerID: 483115

Follow Up By: GREENDOG ! - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:19

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:19
You got that right.cheers GD
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Reply By: mikehzz - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:29

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:29
There's a place where you should be able to speed and a place where you should obey the limits. The limits are not taken seriously in Australia because they are too low on motorways for modern cars. Police sit on motorways catching people driving safely in a lot of cases and giving them a fine. Those people think of it as revenue raising, not road safety and that is regretable. What is needed is a culture change, higher limits on dual carriageways, lower limits in built up areas and proper education about why the limits are what they are and limits that make sense. It's not going to do much about the idiot in question but statistically there aren't that many bad crashes in that situation because usually there is a safe driver such as Greendog on site who is able to dodge the bullet. When 2 idiots meet....that's a different story. Cheers.
AnswerID: 483117

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 20:39

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 20:39
I would like to know myself who sets the speed limits ?? Some one must have no idea. The M7 here in Sydney would have to be one of the best built roads in NSW, yet its only 100k, then you can jump on some of our roads and their like goat tracks and its a 100k limit ?? I got pinged on the long weekend (well Im sure I did just waiting for the ticket in the mail, by one of those territorys) wife was driving and had done a few hours and was getting tired while I was snoozing, so she gave me a nudge and said your turn. she dabbed the brakes to cancel out cruise control the slowly pulled over for me to take over. No problems, I jump in, take off get to about 95k and hit resume on cruise control which took me back to 110k, the limit so I thought. Saw the territory sitting there from 1/2 a mile away so to speak and thought bloody hell who's he going to catch ?? I had the GPS system up on the windscreen purely for the bluetooth for the phone, but I turned it down as the 4 year old had dropped off and new my family were about to ring us (as usual when were travelling) to see where we were but I new we would see it flashing to let us know some one was ringing. Didnt need it for directions new where we were going. Next thing just as I was approaching the camera car I noticed the GPS flashing red displaying 111/100, thought oh oh, said to the wife whats the speed limit, she said 110, then she went oh no, just where she had pulled up for us to change around was just past a sign saying 100 which I obviously didnt see as I still had eyes shut waiting for her to pull up. I did a uturn further up (where allowed of course) then went up past where we had swapped drivers did a uturn again and checked out the situation, yep sure as hell 100k. Oh well sh#t happens as they say. So that will be 6 point thanks for coming, Will be the 3rd fine in 27 years, last speeding fine was in 96 and last warning for a yellow light was in 06, dont get me started on the yellow light. Now the speed limit went from 110k to 100k to 110k within a 1km, for what reason I have no idea. Nothing around, no houses, double lane either way with trees and stuff between either sides.

Point is how doing 110k in this 100k zone was dangerous ?? (in my case 111 by my GPS). Why wasnt he sitting in the 110 zone ?? obviously this is a trap and a good money spinner for these mobs. Dont see how where he was sitting was any more dangerous then if he was sitting in the 110k area ??
At the end of the day it was my fault and probably should have asked the wife what the limit was instead of presuming it was 110k just cause she had cruise set at that. She was been so careful as well and I was the one telling her dont go over the limit even by 5k (not that she normally does anyway) but due to double point was been more carefull then ever, then its me that gets pinged LOL, she reckons she saw at least 10 cops if not more in the first 3 hours so we knew they were out and about like they said they would be. My winge for the weekend. Have a good one.............
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Follow Up By: splits - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 23:05

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 23:05
"Point is how doing 110k in this 100k zone was dangerous "
I think the difference in speed between all the cars and trucks on our roads would have a lot to do with it.

The hand book in my non turbo diesel Lux for example says don't exceed 138. It feels like it is flying at 110, particularly with mud/rock tyres, so I usually keep it at around 100. If I was towing a van, it would probably be closer to 80. A car passing at 110 would be 30 ks faster and things can go wrong in situations like that.

It was a big problem in the early days of the October race at Bathurst when cars like HO Falcons travelling at around 220 kph came up behind Corollas and the like going as flat as a tack at about 150.

The worst example that you are ever likely to see of what can happen when cars of different performance levels are on the same road together can be seen in this video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEk85gKJN6k&feature=related The driver of an Austin Healey moves over to pass a D type Jaguar that was slowing down and fails to see a much faster Mercedes coming up behind him. The result was over 80 people killed.

We don't have the space on our roads to separate trucks or have designated high speed only lanes. Some of them may look good and appear to be safe but they are not up to the standard of Europe yet.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 23:37

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 23:37
Hi there Splits, I know where your coming from but we are talking 10k difference on an open road, Same road, same surface, same lane set up, nothing different from the 110k we were in to the 100k section, then the 110k section again. I have absolutely no idea why this section of road varies in speed over say klm distance and needs to have a 10k variance, for what reason I would love to know ?? Im not one for going on about revenue normally, but this situation here to me it is. OK yes there is obviously 100k sign posting and its not hidden in any way, clear as day, but why the change and he just happens to be in the 100k area of it, as I mentioned before why doesnt the operator sit in the 110k area either side of it ?? Anyway at the end of the day Im sure Ive been zapped and will learn from it, but they wont be getting another cent from me for speeding. Even today going down the south coast I sat cruise on all the way, what ever the speed limit thats what I had it set at, on the dot, and had the GPS displaying it as well. But what I did find was I reckon 70 to 80% of people were passing me. 2 weeks ago I probably would have been one of them, may only be 5k over the limit but I dont give a rats any more about keeping up with traffic flow. They can sit up my date as much as they like. I will and always have kept left unless overtaking, and if they get too close they will have a hayman reese tow bar wegded in their front grill. I had a 2.8D hilux before so know where your coming from in regards to how it feels behind the wheel in regards to speed. I know myn will exceed the speed limit in first gear (in a 60k zone) and is certainly capable of 200k if given the distance and a gamer driver then me to try it out (at a race track of course) but even in the rain I will knock off 10k generally in the higher speed areas due to visbility, tyre grip and fact Im in a 4wd that is higher then your average sedan so stability comes into it as well. End of subject, will wait and see what I cop, pay up and get over it.............Cheers
FollowupID: 758387

Reply By: JimDi - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 20:07

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 20:07
Not too sure about higher speed limit recommendations. I drove from Brisbane to the Gold Coast on a weekend recently. Speed limit from roughly Beenleigh was 110klm and a four lane freeway to boot.

I travelled at a constant 100klm, not my sedan and used the cruise control when safe to activate. I did not change lanes and stayed in the left hand lane. Also tried to keep the three count reaction distance from the vehicle in front.

End result was that by the time I got to the Nerang exit I had been involved in four very near misses from other drivers who for some reason could not control either their lane changes ,speed or braking. All of these near misses involved drivers unnecessarily changing lanes at high speed for no apparent reason other than to put other drivers behind them.

I wish that people would realise that one blink of the indicator does not give you right of way nor does it make you bullet proof.
Indicators are for signalling ones intentions, they dont give you right of way.
Thats my spit done.
AnswerID: 483126

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 20:57

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 20:57
From the RTA website in regards to
""I wish that people would realise that one blink of the indicator does not give you right of way nor does it make you bullet proof""

Not give sufficient left change of direction signal $147 2 Road Rules 2008
Rule 46 (1)&(2)
Give left change of direction signal (less than 5 seconds) $147 2 Road Rules 2008
Rule 46 (1)&(3)
Not give right change of direction signal with lights $147 2 Road Rules 2008
Rule 48 (1)
Not give sufficient right change of direction signal $147 2 Road Rules 2008
Rule 48 (1)&(2)
Give right change of direction signal (less than 5 seconds) $147 2 Road Rules 2008
Rule 48 (1)&(3)
FollowupID: 758362

Reply By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:08

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:08
Hi Greendog,

Had 3 brand new 4bys overtake me on the Simpson last year. They said they were doing the crossing in one day and they thought it was a badge of honour or extension to their manhood or something like that. They said they didnt know what the big deal was.

Poor simpletons it was their 1st crossing and they didn't take the time.

Cheers Wilko
AnswerID: 483133

Follow Up By: GREENDOG ! - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:23

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:23
Just brain dead Hay.cheer's GD
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:43

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 21:43
What an absolute waste of time, we had some glorius nights in the Simmo, one day we travelled only 60k's pulled up for lunch and stayed the night - just perfection.

Really I don't get why people bother going all that way and not take in the ambience of the surroundings both day & night.

Sure I can get very far in a short space of time - we're going from Adelaide to Kalgoorlie in 2 days ( 2 x 10 hour days x 3 drivers) but we will be ambling up the Canning for over 2 weeks followed by a leisurely pace back to Adelaide.

I work for a living and will suck in as much of the outback as I can, as I damn well earned it and do not see the point in racing to the finish.


FollowupID: 758382

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 17:02

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 17:02
Know the type. Had to pull up in a narrow swale to clamp down a bit of gear that had worked loose.

Heard a group of vehicles for a while chatting on channel 10 about what they'd ate last night, price of petrol, what the kiddies were doing, wanting to make Birdsville by tomorrow morning etc. etc. .... called out on channel 10 twice that I'd stopped - didn't have much room either side....

Next thing three brand new Disco's came hurtling over the sand dune at a rate of knots, didn't even slow down and managed to miss me by about 6 inches as they went past in a shower of dust. They were literally flying !!! It was only good fortune that I was behind my vehicle and didn't step out to the side or they would have cleaned me up.

Had the satisfaction of catching up with them in the Birdsville CP a few days later. Both me, my father, and two of my traveling companions ripped the living snot out of them.

Classic Mosman/Toorak tourers with all the expensive bits and no idea of dune etiquette ...
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 18:57

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 18:57
Good on you, I would have probably reported them to the Police and let them know that they are staying in the CP, only for the reason that it probably was like water of a ducks back to them but being challenged by Police it makes them really take note that they can't act like idiots out there.

Don't know about Qld but here in SA you can make a report and the Police will act on it providing you are prepared to testify, given that you had 3 others they would have been stuffed.

Again, good onya and lets just hope that they did heed some of the rightly derved bollocking


FollowupID: 758547

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 20:29

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 20:29
Colin, wasn't really sure they got it - just a blank stare, but it made me feel better.

They were tailing us for a while and spent ages on Ch 10 talking constantly about what they were going to cook for dinner that night. A couple of our group asked them to keep the channel clear as they were blocking out the oncoming vehicles ... didn't slow them down much. As I said, I just don't think they got it at all.
FollowupID: 758556

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 20:35

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 20:35
In fact, when we first heard them on the UHF earlier, we aksed them if they were East or West bound and they told us it was none of our business!!!! Tried to explain we were only trying to avoid smacking into them on a crest of a sand dune ... their respones? "well... that's what we got sand flags for!!"
FollowupID: 758559

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 21:03

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 21:03
You know what, I reckon that as soon as there is a really bad accident, the powers that be will reason that they need to close these tracks or make them East West or West East in an effort to ensure public safety as the minority always stuff it for us majority.

Sandflags won't make much difference at speed over a dune apart from letting people know that they are now parked on someone elses bonnet

Blank stares - I guessed it, I have met Neil ( local Birdsville copper ) and he is a really good guy who I am confident wouldn't suffer these fools so lightly, people like this really REALLY need to be put in there place for the common good of all of us 4wd'ers

Cheers again

FollowupID: 758566

Reply By: ross - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 23:16

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 23:16
Im forever amazed at some of the skidmarks I see on Perths freeways. Perfectly straight,2 or 3 lanes and there will be skidmarks from someone going sideways down the freeway.
Often you will see cars abandoned in the nature strip at extreme angles,upside down or facing the wrong way.
I not convinced they were all drunk drivers or drivers that fell asleep at the wheel.
Either they cant cope with existing speed limits or they are exceeding them.
AnswerID: 483137

Reply By: Member - Travelinglew - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 07:07

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 07:07
I always wonder why people have this obsession to speed. The time that is saved over a trip is negligible. If the time is important, leave a few minutes earlier.

Some examples.

remembering that because it is almost impossible to average the top speed, these differences are in fact less than stated here

distance traveled speed 100 110 time difference in minutes

30 18 16.4 1.6
50 30 27.3 2.7
100 60 54.5 5.5
200 120 109.1 10.9
300 180 163.6 16.4
400 240 218.2 21.8

So the best you can save over a 30 kilometer trip is 1.6 minutes. The increased risks and fuel costs and wear and tear on the car etc .....well why say any mor.

AnswerID: 483150

Follow Up By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:49

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:49
600 km Kalgoorlie to Perth can save half an hour if you're really lucky and don't get pinged by the cops.

But you use half as much fuel again and when you arrive, you just sit around cos you're too buggered to do anything!

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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 08:14

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 08:14
What is this thing of whining about others speed ? One mans idea of driving "to the conditions" does not mean that we must ALL drive at his/hers perceived safe speed , each vehicle and driver are variables ,and not every driver is on holiday .
AnswerID: 483154

Reply By: KevinE - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 08:22

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 08:22
G'day GD, it seems to me to happen more often on dirt roads/tracks that are reasonably close to the bitumen. I was up in the Flinders in March & had similar probs. We were in the Gawler Ranges at Easter; not another car on the bloody track till we get back near the dirt access road, then around the corner sideways comes grandpa in his white Pajero that still has the CV mirrors & hitch on it. Like you said, his eyes were as big as pie plates when he sees us coming the other way lol! Had the same issues going in/out of the Bungles last August, only worse! a group of red necks in Jeeps overtook us doing about 100kmh on the way in & we got overtaken twice going through water on the way out, one was a D22 towing a CT bouncing from wheel to wheel as he overtook us. I waved nicely as we passed him a bit further on stopped with a snapped trailer axle ;) The other was some goose in a Vitara; we passed him later too! He had gone through deep wheel ruts & was bottomed out with all 4 wheels off the ground. I waved nicely as I drove past him too lol!
AnswerID: 483155

Reply By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:42

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:42
Don't ever go to Mitchell Falls by road then Greendog - never seen so many crazy drivers in my life. Mainly 100 series hire vehicles with the blue signs on the doors all goin like the clappers.

AnswerID: 483172

Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 12:48

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 12:48
Its all part of a modern social disease.

Now i'm not going to argue that driving fast is not fun, and in the right place and time perfectly safe.

There are plenty who just cat get past the idea of being more important than everybody else, being in front, wanting to get there faster, affraid of being late and just the whole go fast hero thing.

Its always been there but it seems to be getting worse arround the cities or in places where people from the cities go.

Get out of the major population centres in other than holiday times and it all seems to settle down.

There are a whole pile of things to bleat about on the roads....but off road..well there are so many good reasons to slow down, so many nasty surprises and the wear and tear on man and machine.

Most of the time it is a waste of breath trying to explain this to those who cant keep a moderate pace off road.

AnswerID: 483177

Reply By: Kalebjarrod - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 16:04

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 16:04
The speed limit is set for the worst driver on the road

Until everyone can achieve the same skill level that's the way it is

People should slow down, full stop
AnswerID: 483190

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 16:15

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 16:15
And by the same token some people should speed up and not hold every one else up , not everyone is on a holiday tour and is on the road /track to see the sights and smell the roses ,
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 16:22

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 16:22
Couldn'tagree more.
It's also the ones that think they are good, that aren't!

Anybody that thinks that speed & injury or death aren't related, must have their head planted firmly up their fundamental orifice. Tell me the last time that a stationary vehicle killed somebody.

FollowupID: 758435

Follow Up By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 08:12

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 08:12
I agree, but remember, speed alone does not kill. It is usually the person in control of the vehicle. By most state laws, speed alone does not constitute dangerous driving (operation) otherwise racing car drivers would be charged at every race.
Most will also bring up the argument about drink drivers being so dangerous on the road. No doubt they are a danger, but statistics will show very few are actually involved in collisions. (Note, I do not call the incidents accidents as that word does not fit most collisions.)
I understand the point you are trying to make, but people have been killed when a vehicle has been relatively stationary. Working under a vehicle when the jack or stands give way as one example. I know speed has an effect on the amount of damage and injury in collisions, but the problem is a lot more complex and should start with driver attitude. While we have vehicles on the road, we will have collisions and people will be killed. We need to limit the carnage.
I speak with a certain level of experience, spent many years investigating serious and fatal collisions. Not claiming to be an expert, just been there, done that.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 16:45

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 16:45
According to TAC stats 25% of all fatal accidents involve drivers over .05.

I say accidents because I hope that the incidents weren't intentional.

I knew somebody would bring up the jack or stand scenario, but the vehicle isn't stationary if it's moving downwards.

A fact of life is, the faster you hit, the more it hurts, speed does kill.

Race drivers are competing in controlled events, as far as I am aware we don't have flag marshalls on our roads to warn us of dangerous conditions. Also as our roads haven't kept up with vehicle technology, neither have race tracks kept up with race car technology, which is why Formula One cars have been denied the use of all available technology.

FollowupID: 758535

Follow Up By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 19:46

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 19:46
I understand where you are coming from and don't mean to get into an argument, but, I know all about statistics, I use to compile heaps of them for fatal, injury and non injury collisions. I have investigated more collisions then I can remember. I have tested numerous drivers involved in collisions. Ask any Police officer how many drivers involved in collisions they have tested and how many have gone over the legal limit and I think you will be surprised at the percentage.
If you examine how the statistics are compiled you will see how the questions are framed and that may answer the 25% you refer to.
If you look at the legal definition of the word accident you will see why we have not used that term for a number of years. If all collisions were accidental, then no driver could ever be charged with any offence.
I will not argue the fact that you believe speed kills as I think you missed my point. Yes, I agree with the following - speeding can kill. There has been court cases lost because speed was the only evidence used for one of the most important elements of a dangerous driving (operation) charge.
So the matter is complicated. I do not speed and I do not drive under the influence. Both I hate. I am not saying I am perfect and have never done both, but one does silly things when young.
Maybe we will have to agree to disagree.
FollowupID: 758551

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 21:34

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 21:34
Kevin, maybe I just enjoy a good discussion, thanks.
I must add that it infuriates me when drug or alcohol abuse is used as excuse for killing somebody.

I remember when I obtained my CAMS licence, we were instructed to use the term incident & never use the word accident.

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Follow Up By: Kalebjarrod - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 05:28

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 05:28
Unfortunately alloy its not a perfect world, if someone does not feel they have the driving skills to go any faster in the conditions presented to them they should ( within reason) have the right to go slower

My best mate and his brother where driven over by a truck on the way home from there grandmothers funeral , that was a bad week. The truck was speeding to get to a designated drop off on time

In the police statement he said he thought he was driving to the conditions
FollowupID: 758587

Reply By: Rockape - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 19:26

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 19:26
How the hell did your post about someone travelling toward you on the wrong side of the road on dirt (and you stated they were travelling like a bat out of hell! see how I can change the post.) end up with people debating about how much alcohol, I don't do that , Why should you tell me I should have to travel at your speed I will never know. Road speed limits are way to low and all the policemen are out there to trap me.

Mate I know where you are coming from and yes it happens time and time again.

Many people now just don't or won't have enough time to do it easy.

Have a good one,

AnswerID: 483307

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