Canning Stock Route Tyres - Split Rims v Steels, What tyres

Submitted: Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 21:36
ThreadID: 94921 Views:11103 Replies:15 FollowUps:6
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Hi All,
I will be doing the Canning & Gunbarrell in the next few months and was wondering what tyres & rims people who have have actually done the route have used and their relative
successes/failures.

Planning on taking 5 new tyres plus one extra spare - the 6th tyre either on a rim or just the tyre itself - also have an R&R Beadbreaker & tyre repair kit.

The vehicle I am taking is a 90 series Prado and currently have the std 16x7 steel rims (15" wont fit), but I am considering buying split rims and using appropriate tyres. The tyres I am looking at are either 265/75R16 or skinnier 235/85R16. It has been suggested that the skinnier 235 tyres may be better as they don't balloon as much and are less likely to get "staked". I currently have the std 16x7 steel rims but am contemplating buying a set of split rims.

As mentioned I am interested in people who have done the canning and what they use and recommend
cheers
Andy
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Reply By: Bush Wanderer - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 22:08

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 22:08
Andy,

I used my factory rims with cooper st 285/75 16.

Had two spares, and no flats. Tyres pressures that worked my vehicle was 23 cold in rear and 20 cold at the front. Every vehicle will be different based on weight and driving style.

I would use my splits for more remote areas (csr is remote but the track is not bad when compared to some of the tracks I have traveled) where I have had greater risk of staked tyres.

Did get to use my bead breakers for others on the trip, who thought 35 all round was a good pressure.....big reason for corrugations when those drive with too high tyre pressures.

You will receive plenty of advice on this from fellow forum members.

Have a top time.

BW.
AnswerID: 483231

Follow Up By: Bush Wanderer - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 22:15

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 22:15
Andy, what part of the gunbarrel were you planning to travel ?

BW.
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Follow Up By: AndyMort - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 23:08

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 23:08
Hi BW,

From warburton to leonora via laverton and Yeo Lakes at this stage but are pretty flexible as we are lucky enough to have 3months off work (any suggestions welcome)!!

cheers

Andy
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Follow Up By: Kanga1 - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:28

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:28
Hi Andy, maybe you have confused the Great Central road with the Gunbarrel Hwy. Cheers, Kanga.
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Kanga.

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Reply By: The Rambler( W.A.) - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 22:25

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 22:25
Don't know about the Canning S.R. But I can tell you that I have been travelling in the out back (cape york 3 times) the gulf -many times, the kimberly many times,across the centre and Tasmania--all on split rims with 235/85/16 tyres and would never change to anything else as I have seen so many tyre failures with the wide tyres while I have had very few problems.Remember if you are running split rims beware of dropping tyre pressures too low as the tubes can spin within the tyre causing problems.As long as you understand this you will find that you will have very few problems running splits on 235/85/16.
AnswerID: 483233

Follow Up By: Member - Justin O (QLD) - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 21:49

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 21:49
I'm with you Rambler. I knew this topic would create a discussion!
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FollowupID: 758578

Reply By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 23:25

Sunday, Apr 15, 2012 at 23:25
I don't understand the attraction with split rims. More dangerous things were never invented in my view and in these days of really effective bead breakers there's just no need for them.

Paul B Kalgoorlie

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AnswerID: 483236

Reply By: Ross M - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 00:06

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 00:06
The selection of tyre size is one thing but the use of split rims is a BIG BACKWARD step. 16x7 yes, appropriate tyre size of choice based on advice from people who have been in that area with similar vehicles.

The tube type tyres will deflate instantly if punctured by something and the tubless will not. Far safer with tubeless.
Tube tyres develop more heat due to internal friction and you can't deflate them as much with the same safety margin.

If you wish to resell the rims and tyres after your tripping, tube and split rims are almost worthless. Most people give them away.


Blow up two balloons. Place a patch of sticky tape on one balloon.

Prick through the sticky taped section of the balloon and see what happens.
Prick the other balloon. Don't bother. You know what happens.
Which type of tyre do you want to use?

Ross M
AnswerID: 483240

Reply By: Member - Bucky - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 06:02

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 06:02
Andy
We carried an extra 2 spares, on the roof racks, which later on went on the Poootrol as new tryes when the others wore out.
We also carried 2 tubes, just in case, and a plug kit.
Have had a Tyre Plyer kit for 5 years, and practice being good at it, in the shed at home.

Do not change to split rims, they are just a pain. Your original rims will do the job, just fine.

I will start a tyre war here....
Get B F Goodrich tyres and not Coopers. You will never look back.
Not sure what size tyres Viv and Ray had on their Prado, but they were B F G's as well and neither of us had trouble on the Canning.
Me being the only one to have a puncture, on the trip

Ballooning of tyres is secondary to what you want !
Yoou actually want the footprint to be longer, not wider.

Check it out at home on the concrete, at home before you go.
That's what I did, and came up with 12 psi front, an d15 psi on the rear, and never had an issue.
Again I have covered this in previous posts.
Keep at least 1/2 to 3/4 a tyre width over from the ruts going up the dunes, and this will stop you porposing (bouncing) up the dunes, and causing damage.

You can contact me if you want.
All information is on my profile
Cheers
Bucky



AnswerID: 483248

Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 07:38

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 07:38
Andy,

I have guided all types of vehicles on the Canning, some with steel rims and some with splits and the best advice I can give is to have tyres as new as possible, Maximum amount of tread.
Lower you tyres pressure and look at where you are driving.

If you have steel rims now invest in good tyres to go on them, BFG, Coopers or any other brand it does not matter.

I have found that getting to and from the Canning will cause more tyre problems than the track it self.

I do have a Troopie, I run steel rims and use new 265x75x16 Coopers STT, I have also taken at least 45 vehicles, tag-a-long, over the last 7 years.

Wayne
AnswerID: 483255

Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 13:17

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 13:17
Wayne
Too true !
The real test is getting there, especially the eastern leg of the Gunbarrel, and once you get into Willuna Shire, then the roads are like glass.

The ability of thinking your way along the CSR is by far the best way of the lot.

Cheers Bucky
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 08:41

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 08:41
Andy,

I won't comment on the type of wheels and tyres you want for the CSR except to say that when I do it (still in the future) I will use the original wheels that came with the car and the best tyre I can get at the time. Whatever that may be.

I will comment on your bead breaker. I think you have made an excellent choice, the R&R is every bit as easy to use as the guy at the show makes it look. BUT you do have to practice.

Also reseating the bead is not always easy to do with the small compressors we usually carry in our cars. Practice this too. I was forced to refine my system, with a little guidance from the local tyre shop. With that help I managed to make my system reliable and repeatable. It wasn't at first.

It looks like you are putting some effort into planning, nearly as much fun as the trip, so I think you should be ok.

Duncs
AnswerID: 483261

Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 13:20

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 13:20
When I purchased the Tyre Plyer kit, I never thought I would struggle, but the old arthritis is creeping in and I find it awkward these days.

By the way a fair bit of soap helps everything slip over.

Cheers Bucky
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FollowupID: 758521

Reply By: Member - Alastair D (NSW) - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 08:49

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 08:49
Andy,
I support Wayne's comments. Having good tyres and lowering the pressures to suit conditions is the key. I have travelled a wide range of conditions over the years and the majority of tyres problems I have seen have in my opinion been caused by poor tyres from the start, too higher pressures and driving too fast.

There will always be cases of rock damage, stakes etc but I find that we have fewer problems than most and I put it down to our tendency to travel on the slower side so we can look at the scenery, birds and animals but also it gives you more time to have good wheel placement and avoid potential damage.

I am amazed at how fast some folk travel on dirt roads both from the enjoyment point of view and ability to avoid rocks which cause most of the tyre damage.

When in remote areas I now carry 1 full spare and 1 unmounted tyre. I used to carry 2 full spares but have found as tyre technology has improved we can save the extra weight with little inconvenience.

Have a good trip.
AnswerID: 483262

Reply By: gke - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 10:57

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 10:57
Hi Andy- I consider your 16x7 and 235/85 to be a very good combination. We run a 80 series. The first 220 000 km it had splits and 7.50/16 tyres. We do quite a bit of remote touring and beach work. I was plagued with flats, often caused by chafing by sand getting in.

Since changing to 235/85 on 16x7 I have not had a flat in 220 000kms.(touch wood ) The 85 aspect gives good clearance too. Also a nice long footprint at lowered pressures.

Cheers, Graham.
AnswerID: 483268

Reply By: pop2jocem - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 17:19

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 17:19
Andy,

When we travelled the CSR we did it in 2 HZJ75 Landcruiser utes both fitted with the standard split rims and 7.50x16" tyres. Although we did quite a few side excursions from the main track we had 1 puncture each, both from small stakes. I believe if you stick to the main track, use sensible LT construction tyres on your existing rims, lower your pressures and most important speed you shouldn't have any dramas. Make that not too many dramas...lol. If I was to do the trip again I would use the same split rims with 235/85x16 LT tyres as I have for the last 10 or so years and run on about 28-30psi but that is going to depend on vehicle and weight. Yes I know the standard splits are supposed to be slightly narrow for the 235 tyres and I am told that 6"-6 1/2" are more appropriate so your 7" should be ok.
Alot of people are of the opinion that splits are not the best option but I would much rather repair a puncture with a large screw driver and a rubber mallet than struggle with bead breakers. How do I break the beads? I do that at home and make sure the rims are clean so easy to remove.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 483294

Reply By: splits - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 17:27

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 17:27
Andy

Have you used your bead breaker yet? You won't have any problems breaking the bead with an R&R but not everyone can get the tyre off the rim easily after that. Practice at home as Dunc suggested and if you have any problems, then try a split rim. They are designed to be easy and they are providing the tyre has not been left undisturbed on the rim for years and rust has developed.

It was only yesterday at home that a friend came around with his new R&R. I have seen them demonstrated at shows so I decided to try and get a 205 x 16 Bridgestone 694 on and off a one piece rim. Both of us had a lot of trouble so I showed him the old tyre lever and rubber hammer method. I can still do it easily enough even though I am getting on a bit but I still find a well maintained split rim 100% easier.

If you do decide to use them then seal them with a cheap low strength silicon sealer. It is easy to place the sealer around the valve stem and the gap in the band. You then run a tiny bead right around between the band and the rim and run your finger over it to smooth it out and push it into the grove. This only takes a few seconds and will stop the entry of sand and water.

Make sure you use plenty of chalk inside the tyre and you should not have any tube problems. I have sealed them and used chalk for many years and have never had a tube problem.

If you have never inflated one before then don't worry they are easy and safe providing they are not damaged or very heavily rusted where the band sits into the grove in the rim. Start by inflating the tube just enough to remove any ripples in it. Push it into the tyre then add the rubber rust band. Lubricate the beads of the tyre. I use Rema Tip Top lubricant rather than try and make my own. Put it onto the rim and fit the retaining band. Don't stomp it on with your foot and put dirt inside the tyre. Make sure whatever method you use is clean.

Start inflating slowly and watch the tyre slowly expand and seat itself. It should not take any more than about 5 psi to fully seat a clean lubricated tyre on a rust free rim. The tyre bead is now sitting on top of the removable steel band locking it into the recess in the rim and there is no way in the world it is going to come off after that as you put the rest of the air into it.

You won't need anything wider than a 235. There is a bit of information on this site http://www.outbackcrossing.com.au/FourWheelDrive/Truth_About_4WD_Tyres.shtml on skinny tyres on sandy tracks. They found the Troopy they bought with 13 inch wide tyres needed a lower gear to run down a nearby beach than the 235s they replaced them with. I noticed Beadell Tours http://www.beadelltours.com.au/tyre_information.html also use skinny tyres. They use two different types of 7.50 x 16 street tyres for all of their on track and off track cross country desert trips although they are not your ordinary everyday streeties. I have seen a few of the all steel radials on small trucks in Sydney but not the other one.
AnswerID: 483295

Reply By: get outmore - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 17:36

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 17:36
the advantage of split rims is you can fit and repair heavy duty tryres like all nylon construction 14-16 ply tyres

i wouldnt bother fitting radials to them as often all radial need is a plug to fix them although they do puncture much more easily

the canning being a well used desert route i couldnt see being very hard on tyres

most of my tyre issues have been from travelling little used heavily wooded bush tracks

the idea split rims are actually dangerous is a myth continually perpetuated due to failures of split rims on heavy machinery causing deaths but there construction is not simular.

Ive asked many tyre fitters and my own experience and no one has seen a light vehicle split rim failing on re inflation.
Even an internet search i could only find an anecdotal story of a death during inflation of an LV tyre and that was a radial tyre on a one piece
AnswerID: 483298

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 21:28

Monday, Apr 16, 2012 at 21:28
The 16x7 factory steel wheels are the ideal wheel for your 90series Prado.
Best size is 265/75R16 rather than 235/85R16 because the wider tyre seats more easily on the 7 inch rim when reinflating and the wider tyre is less likely to roll a bead off the rim at low pressure.
You're unlikely to have problems on the tracks you are planning.
AnswerID: 483316

Reply By: andoland - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 08:50

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 08:50
We did a trip last year across the plenty highway, Great Central Road, CSR, Tanami Track, Oodnadatta Track and Birdsville track. 9 vehicles in all.

Two vehicles were running BFG mud terrains, one ran Cooper STT's, a couple (including mine) had BFG AT's, a couple had Coopers ST, the 80 series had some Kumho or similar AT's which were more on-road than off-road oriented and the 200 series had Cooper ATR's. There were only three flats on the trip - two of these were mine. One was the staked tyre on the GCR and the other was a flat on the Birdsville track where it looks like a sharp rock had sliced a tread block and penetrated the carcass. The other flat on the 80 series was from a piece of wire.

I think the range of tyres here and the relative lack of flats is an indication that tyre pressure and driving style are the biggest factors in tyre performance - when I first saw the two vehicles with the Kumho and Cooper ATR I was worried about the tyre damage they were going to experience but it didn't happen. My BFG's came out looking worse for wear with a lot of chipping of tread blocks and so did the BFG AT's on the other vehicle too, so I was somewhat surprised and a little disappointed about that. The Cooper STT's probably performed the best in this regard.

Anyway, my point is don't stress too much about the which is the absolute best, as others have said above make sure you have good quality tyres and look after them when you drive.
AnswerID: 483334

Reply By: AndyMort - Wednesday, Apr 25, 2012 at 14:05

Wednesday, Apr 25, 2012 at 14:05
Thanks all for your great advice and useful suggestions - the exploroz website is such a great forum to get help so hats off to the guys that run it.

I investigated split rims and found that they are a bout $300 ea from Toyota (not keen on buying 2nd hand ones) so will stick to my steels instead. Not sure what size to go for yet - either the 235/85R16 with less sidewall bulge or the more common 265/75.

Will take 6 rims with me - 5 new tyres - possibly 6 as overkill.
Have had two sets of BFG AT's & 1 set of Coopers ST and found the coopers chipped less on my old leaf sprung 60 series so am going to try STmax for the Prado.

When we did the simpson in our old 60series we ran a tyre pressure of around 16-18psi so for the sand dunes on the canning will probably run about the same. The southern end of the canning I understand is more gravel & rock so was planning on running between 28-30 psi - any thought??

I will also be taking an ARB tubeless tyre repair kit, a couple of spare tubes just in case and the R&R Beadbreaker so should cover all bases.

Six weeks to go cant wait - once again thanks for all your advice

cheers

Andy
AnswerID: 484156

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