Cape York / Camper Trailers

Hey Des

Just as an aside do you know what DNA stands for ???

;-]

Cheers
Fidei defensor

Rosco

National Dyslexia Association hehe

Leroy

Got it in one.

:-))))))Fidei defensor

Rosco

Join pu do you where?
LOLDare to Lead not to Follow

Eric - you have been a quiet boy lately. Got RSI or computer dead or holidaying again?My Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

Andrew and jen Have been very busey with family stuff and working at that other job building and sending out lots of emails and telephone work for cape york connections.
And yes planing to grt away at the end of the school holidats for about 10 days
That picture looks a lot like the pascoe river.

All the best
EricCape York Connections

Gosh - you must have been there - lol lol
If you click on that photo, I reckon that it will be much harder for you to work out where that photo was taken. I am the person on the right in front of the silver Landcruiser.
By the way, I like your Banner ads.
AndrewMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

Andrew And Jen just read trough tha reply i sent you and I probly sould have bruised up on mi speling over xmas.

About 3 seasons ago just a few meters in front of were you are in the photo it was over bonnet and mooving fairly quick.

In your other photo on the beach at V---- P----t its not a bd spot is it.
Did you go over the southern head land onto the other beach and have a drive along it not a bad spot either. You get plenty of boueys along the other beach, and a nice little swimming hole on the way.
Also did you see any turtiles comming up the beach . The poor things lay all those eggs and @#$# *&^ pigs did them up its a hard way to start life.

All the best
EricCape York Connections

Eric

English was my worst subject so don't worry about the spelling. I reckon that they are not spelling mistakes but typos - you just hit the wrong keys!!

We only went North but sounds like we should have gone south too. Didn't see any turtles and didn't catch any fish!

AndrewMy Toy - 2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

Terry and Hendo

On the issue of broken springs, could you tell me how many leafs you both had? We're off that way this year with a CT in tow so of course this aspect is important, from our point of view.

Our CT has HD springs with 7 leafs which look like they're off a Mack truck (no shockies tho). The idea of carrying a spare spring has appeal ... but I have to say not a lot. But then again we'd be well and truly up the proverbial without one in the event bleep happens ... as it usually does.

Also are we only talking about the main leaf, or the full kit and kaboodle??

Tare weight of CT ... 440 kg + load ..... say 750 kg all up. It's a braked unit but there's only the 2 of us so I intend to put most of the load in the truck.

Thanks in advance.

CheersFidei defensor

Rosco

G'day Ross,
Pardon me for "butting in" here, but....
7-leaf springs on a 750kg trailer????.. IMHO that is way too rigid, especially on corrugations (shake everything to pieces)...
For any suspension system to work effectively, the springs need to FLEX!!
I have a tandem (hardfloor) offroad C/T, tare wt. 1100kg, estimated loaded wt. 1500-1600kg ("legal" ATM 2000kg), and it has 4-leaf springs.. (no shockies)...
Fairly new, so I've not (yet) "tested" it on severe corrugations, but it has done several hundred km's on gravel w/- numerous cattle grids & it has handled that superbly.. On highway (at legal speed), need to constantly check mirrors to see that it is still there.. running 26psi (will go lower as dictated by terrain).. tow vehicle GU 4.2TD...

IMHO (again), a major cause of spring breakages is this misconception that "heavy duty" springs are needed, especially with light-to-moderate loads... the heavy spring simply cannot flex, & the main leaf just snaps from the pounding it receives.. too-stiff coils will usually see a mounting or a stub axle fail.. too-high tyre pressures & speed are also a contributing factor...
I believe that springs should be rated to the max. load expected to be carried (no more), & the best ride will be achieved at or neat that load..
Shockies?? well, I'll probably get shot down in flames here, but with properly rated leaf springs, they should not be necessary.. Certainly have found no necessity to fit them to my trailer...

Regards, Ed.C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand............
Not necessarily mechanic!!"

Rosco

Leaf springs and spring rates? A very complicated issue, but also simple. I have been round the world and back on that issue, looking for all sorts of solutions/ideas. I started with 4 leaf packs, made of heavy steel, and they were way too stiff (they were as originally supplied with the trailer). I now have a much more compliant spring, which has more leafs (can't remember the number) but thinner steel. I also have fitted shocks (and this has calmed it down considerably - regardless of opinions, I have done >30,000 of field testing on my trailer, and I wouldn't be without them off road. Round town don't need them). On this issue I am not confused!!). I have fitted greasable shackles, as the "plastic" ones chewed out after one trip (ie the Cape).

As to the Cape trip itself, I started with the softer springs but no shocks fitted at that stage, and found the suspension bottoming on the chassis. As a result, we changed them for the spares (which were the original stiffer springs). One of these broke, and we also ripped off a spring hanger - which we welded back on. I ended up with the softer springs on again on both sides, and completed the trip in this configuration, taking more care over large bumps and washaways to keep the speed down. Since return have fitted shocks and upgraded shackles. It is now supple, smooth riding, and I haven't broken a spring again. This includes two thirds of the Cape (our problems all occurred early on in that trip) and now another 8,000 km to and through the Centre, including Chambers Pillar, following the Ghan from Maryvale to Finke, and other very rough and corrugated tracks.

I still carry spares!! You will break leaf springs on trailers - it is one of the laws of nature, and indeed I have seen all types of springs/suspension combinations broken, during my travels.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Hendo

Hendo & Ed

Thanks for your responses, more food for thought here. Given the brake and spring configuration on my unit, perhaps I should consider putting more load in the CT on the trip so settle it down. I fully agree on the light load/corrugations aspect and it's certainly designed for a greater load.

I'm not sure how supple the springs are as we've only had the CT a few months and so have not really had the chance to put it through it's paces.
1 trip to Fraser ... which doesn't really count in this regard, and limited dirt road work. The unit tows very well in all tests so far. Greaseable shackles are included. Springs are about 850mm+ long with mostly 8mm leafs. Double main leafs, 1 @ 7mm and 1 @ 8mm. Thickness dimensions approx only. No doubt it's difficult to say, sight unseen, but how would you rate this configuration?

As an aside we completed a trip last year through the centre .... Innamincka, Cameron's Corner, Mt. Dare, Plenty Hwy etc.
Towed an off road trailer I made donkey's years ago, which was well constructed but quite light weight (ply box on steel chassis/frame). Only problem was tearing the spring hangers off the chassis rails which I put down to the rails being too light in gauge (only about 3mm thick C section). That setup had 5 leafs and plastic shackles.

Had an off road CT many years ago in a different life which had leaf springs and shockies and it was bullet proof.

Cheers

Fidei defensor

Rosco

Hendo just wandering if you could shed more light on the
shackel bolt tensioning you touched on above. I have just swaped
trailer leaf springs , and just crancked the bolts tight. Is that
not the thing to do

thanks for the input.

Ed is your camper a Coota Camper, if so i would be interseted in how it goes off road as i was considering them before we brought the KK camper as the tandom axle worried me.Regards Bob
Where to next

G'day Bob & Lex,
I must say that I am a little mystified by your statement "the tandem axle worried me"... Why????
My (our) trailer was custom-made for us by Australian RV Trailers at Caboolture (nth. of Brisbane).. I believe it's the first tandem hardfloor that they have made.. They're online at www.austrvtrailers.com & have pics' there of the softfloor version on (more or less) the same frame, which will give you an idea of the configuration...
Over the last 3-4 yrs, we looked at many different makes & models, incl. the KK & Aussie Swag.. Always came away less than impressed with their rather inflexible attitude(s) to even minor variations/alterations to their "off-the-shelf" models, & of course, none of those to whom we spoke were willing to even consider making a tandem C/T, which, for me at least, is the ONLY way to go... Aust. RV on the other hand will do everything possible to make what you, the CUSTOMER want... Very happy indeed with the service in that regard, also the workmanship throughout...
Off-road performance ??? .. As mentioned above, the closest it's been to corrugations (so far) is the numerous cattle grids we crossed, the roads being in very good condition... I can tell you that the trailer was noticeably "smoother" over said grids than the patrol...
Haven't had it in sand yet (will be seeing plenty of that mid-year), but this is one of the reasons I wanted a tandem, the actual "ground pressure" is halved, therefore reducing "rolling resistance", & I reckon I can safely reduce tyre pressures to as low as 10psi (or less) if necessary... Same applies with the vehicle, as we don't need to carry much (if any) extra weight there at all.. just the fridge & the (ahem) "necessities of life"...
At this stage, I am "quietly confident" that it will go to the places we want to go without problems... Remains to be seen, I guess...
Regards, Ed. C.Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand............
Not necessarily mechanic!!"

I will be interested to hear how it goes mid year. Also are the springs eye to eye or parabolic, the cootas were parabolic & as i am a truck driver thats what i didn't like as the pig trailer we own has parabolic springs & it's a pig to tow as it sways all over the place. Regards Bob
Where to next

Bob,
The springs are a conventional 4-leaf pack (not parabolic), and the axles are load-sharing within the limits allowed by the conventional rocker arrangement in the middle...
However, instead of being eye-to-eye, the trailing end of the spring runs on a solid steel roller (approx. 45mm OD) mounted in the same way as the front spring eye... The end of the main leaf is formed into an elongated loop which comes back over the roller thru the mounting bracket, keeping spring & roller aligned, & preventing the axle(s) dropping down on rebound (should the whole kit & kaboodle ever get off the ground)...
In practice, it works the same as a slipper arrangement (simplicity!), but without the friction..
The roller can of course be on a greasable pin, but I choose to use graphite here, bearing in mind the effects of a grease/dust mix...

As for sway, well I've had this unit at well over the speed limit on the tar, & not a hint of sway at any time... Offroad, I've no intention of taking it fast enough for that to ever be an issue...

Should you wish to discuss it further, feel free to "shoot me a line" at
edjan
at
bigpond
dot
com

Regards, Ed. C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand............
Not necessarily mechanic!!"

Just a comment on "compensating plates" & tearing out spring hangers...
These "compensating plates" actually compensate for poor engineering practice....
I'll bet London to a brick that where spring hangers have torn out, they have been welded "all round".. i.e. front & back as well as along the sides...
Any boilermaker (I'm not one) will tell you that you DO NOT weld "across" box section at any stress point ... This will almost certainly guarantee that the joint will fail (sooner or later)...

In the case of spring hangers welded to chassis rails this way, it may even cause the rail itself to crack up each side... Same applies if these "compensating plates" have been welded across the ends...

Regards, Ed. C.Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand............
Not necessarily mechanic!!"

Ed

100% correct on welding procedure.

I earn my dollars to pay for this very bloody expensive hobby of 4WD'ing as a consulting structural engineer. Hence I can say with a degree of confidence you NEVER NEVER weld across a connection such as this. The welds should always be in the direction of the applied force. Welding across only creates stress concentrations which will contribute to failure.

This applies equally to big time stuff such as steel frame buildings with solid section universal beams etc. Never weld across the end of the splice plate ..... or spring hanger ..... or whatever.

Thankyou gentlemen ... that ends the lesson for the day.

CheersFidei defensor

Rosco

should read " .......... extend past extremeties of thicker ......."

Lizard,
I wasn't having a go at you, & what you say may well have some merit, however, I will stand by my earlier comments, in that in every case that I have seen where such breakages have occurred (spring hangers tearing off, & drawbars cracking, etc.), they have been welded "across" the joint, which, as Ross has pointed out, is a definite "no-no"... May "look" stronger, but is in fact considerably weaker...
(I'd be interested to know if that was in fact the case with your mates' trailer)...
I'm by no means a qualified welder (or anything else, for that matter), rather a self-taught "bush welder", but after 30-odd yrs. in agriculture, one "learns about such things" from hard experience..
I totally agree with you on the suspension, bearings, & tyres.. the suspension being the critical factor IMO...

Regards, Ed. C.Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand............
Not necessarily mechanic!!"