Insurance and Tyres

Submitted: Friday, Jan 09, 2004 at 23:49
ThreadID: 9626 Views:2798 Replies:13 FollowUps:12
This Thread has been Archived
I was just sitting down watching the cricket and then thought about a post I read earlier about tyre size changes and insurance. I am curious to find out if anyone has actually had insurance refused due to having a different tyre on the vehicle than is deemed to be standard.

We all talk about the the issues of having the standard tyre and the fact that insurance will be a problem if we do change but I want to know from you all if it really happens? Also If you have had a claim processed and the tyres were not standard was there any questions?

Personally I have never heard of anyone that has ever had a claim refused based on this. So is it really a problem or just hype?Regards
ExplorOz Team - David
--------------------------
Always working, not enough travelling ;-)
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Reply By: Member - Ed. C.- Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 01:42

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 01:42
G'day David,
Damn good question!! .. I too would like to know the "real deal" here...

When shopping for new tyres for the GU recently, I wanted to make the minor change from the original 265/70's to 265/75 A/T's... Was told by a few of the tyre dealers "No can do, it's illegal"...
Went to Bo's & asked the specifec question (re legality), & was told "No problem, not an issue".. So I ended up with G/Year Wrangler A/T's.. So far, no reason to be disappointed with these...
I have yet to inform the insurance co. of the change.. Maybe should do so...

Perhaps there's someone who hangs out here who has connections with the insurance industry, & who may wish to give us their perspective on thes...
Anyone???

Regards, Ed. C.

Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand............
Not necessarily mechanic!!"
AnswerID: 42429

Follow Up By: Member- Rox - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 02:11

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 02:11
Tell the insurence co in writing as well as a ph call and keep a copy.1991 80Series Std Diesel
2003 Down Under Camper
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FollowupID: 304865

Reply By: Member - Bruce (San Diego) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 02:21

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 02:21
David,

Over here in San Diego I was watching the ad for the new Nissan "Titan" 4WD last night boasting 33" mudders as an option and thought of all the trouble Aussies have with their addons and options.

Talking to a few folks up The Cape last year I was amazed at how overregulated Australia has become since my job moved me to the States 10 years ago. Makes me wonder if I want to move back in a couple of years.

I was doing some work for a General Motors dealer the other day and they had a "factory produced" 4WD Pick up with 33's AND a 10" lift, the door handle was at eye height.

Bruce
AnswerID: 42433

Reply By: Chris Larsen - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 07:36

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 07:36
Thought that I had better inform my insurance about changing tyre sizes on my GU to 265/75 from the standard 265/70 (after reading in this forum and elsewhere all the excuses that insurance companies are giving to avoid paying out on claims) and all they wanted to know was it legal according to Qld transport regs. Approached local Qld transport dept who were vague about this change but finally found someone there who said that I was still within the limits allowed. Returned to insurer and informed them of this and they have now noted on my vehicle policy details that this tyre change has been done and is OK according to Qld transport guidelines. Am now running Goodyear Wranglers MTRs after trying both Coopers and BFGs .These Wranglers have now outlasted both of the latter sets of tyres which had to be replaced because of extreme chipping. Now have an indicated speedo error of 1kph higher than GPS reading.
AnswerID: 42438

Follow Up By: Member - Eskimo - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 19:19

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 19:19
Ask for that in writing Chris and then you'll know for sure its Legal
but...I bet you dont get it!Wow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
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FollowupID: 304915

Follow Up By: Member - Eskimo - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 19:20

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 19:20
mmm...guess i should have read on a bit ....like the reply belowWow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
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FollowupID: 304917

Reply By: SupaMav - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 08:14

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 08:14
Chris has been given the same advice from his insurer as I have. Queensland Transport actually produce a pamphlet called "All about modifications to motor vehicles." They state that a legal change to tyres and rims is . . . "The rim diameter may be varied from the standard size but the overall diameter of the tyre must not vary by more than +15mm or -26mm."

I guess it is up the the insurers discretion as to what modifications they alllow with their policy, but at the end of the day, if Qld Transport deem the car illegal I seriously doubt that the insurer will cover the claim.
AnswerID: 42439

Reply By: Member - Peter- Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 08:56

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 08:56
As the last couple of posts have said the insurance companies will only buck if the tyre size fitted is different to what is on the tyre placard or is not considered to be an equivalent.
Any tyre retailer worth his salt will not fit a tyre that is an illegal fitment as you would have redress upon him if you were later refused rego or an insurance claim.
I had a vehicle (Rangie) refused rego because of larger tyres last year, we had to fit the original rims and tyres to get it passed for a pink slip.
Basically if the tyre/wheel does not comply with the tyre placard or RTA regs(there is an allowance of around 25mm I think) then it is illegal and you could be in trouble.
The wheels should have the correct offset other wise you change the loading on wheel bearings and suspension components with possible dire results.
AnswerID: 42448

Follow Up By: Member - Nigel (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 23:28

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 23:28
My wife purchased a van secondhand that had passed roadworthy with illegal tyres for the vehicle - upon approaching the tyre company involved they blamed the previous owner for requesting that particular tyre (not true as we know the previous owner and she had no interest in anything to do with tyres - just wanted cheap and legal). But they did give me full credit for the tyres on legal ones.

I also did my block at the company who had performed the roadworthy (it was a rather large well respected statewide company).

So I don't beleive that tyre companies are always aware of what's legal and what's not - I think they are more interested in selling tyres.
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FollowupID: 304941

Reply By: guy (sydney) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 09:00

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 09:00
Not sure about over in WA but on the RTA site it has the regulations on changing your tyre diametre and what legal and stuff like that. The thing to be wary of is the load speed rating and if you put tyres on that are under you original load speed rating doesnt matter if the diametre change is legal the tyres are considered unroadworthy.
Not that ive had a problem with insurance companies regaurding this but it would only take 5 seconds to check this out,(if an assessor comes out to check a claim out) and if your tyres are unroadworthy your whole car is so no payout, im sure it would be one of the first things theyd check and it could save the company anyware from $0 to 50 or 60k.
This is all just my way of thinking of course so i wouldnt risk it but if anyone has had any dealings to correct or agree with me please do tell as im very interested in this discussion.
Guy
AnswerID: 42451

Reply By: jemima puddle duck - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 09:14

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 09:14
the law in vic and most states i think is.
look at your tyre placard and see what is the biggest tyre option on that sticker.
look at the tyre placard and see what is the biggest rim option on that sticker.
what ever the biggest tyre is your only allowed +/- 15mm in diameter.
what ever the biggest rim is your allowed +/- 1 inch some states state 26mm.
when i was selling tyres i used to tell the customer there illegal to go that big but if they want them we still fitted them vacc has a form customers can fill in for things like this and also if you notice something dangerous(ball joint falling out ect)they sign the paper to say they have been told the vehicle is unroadworthy/dangerous and they have been informed of it.you reckon your cute
richard(eskimo)
but im a lot cuter

AnswerID: 42453

Follow Up By: Geoff - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 19:19

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 19:19
JPD

According to the reg's (Vic - and I've got a copy of them, they are worth a read), you are allowed "15mm OD over the largest tyre size specified by the vehicle manufacturer for the vehicle model or series" (not necessarily the size on the placard).
In the GU Patrol wagons case, for example, the largest size offered by the manufacturer is 245/85x16 (owners handbook). The approx OD of this size is 830mm (placard size is 265/70x16 - 780mm OD).
285/75x16's are about 835mm OD, a whopping 50mm larger than the size on the placard, but only 5mm larger than the 245/86x15 and therefore OK.
The reg's say nothing about the size shown on the placard.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 304916

Follow Up By: jemima puddle duck - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 21:47

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 21:47
gday geoff.
when i did my road worthy course it states in the vsi book about having to go of the tyre placard i dont have the vsi or adrs here but will check monday.
when doing roadworthys i would get hastled all the time about big wheels on commodores ect and i said look here in the vic roads book about tyre placards and they would go on about oh a hrt commodore comes out with 8inch wheels ect so i would tell them go get a tyre placard of a hrt commodore ect.
it also says in the vsi that if the vehicle dosnt have a tyre placard fitted to go off the tyre and rim book wich tells me what size wheels and tyres were fitted to what vehicle.
cheers

you reckon your cute
richard(eskimo)
but im a lot cuter

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FollowupID: 304927

Follow Up By: Geoff - Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 07:52

Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 07:52
Thanks for the reply JPD,

I have an engineers certificate for the 285/75x16 BFG TA's on my GU Patrol because I don't want any insurance problems if I ever have to make a claim.

When talking with the engineer he agreed that I technically didn't need a certificate, however he did say that the insurance companies may argue for ages if I didn't have one. The certificate actually states "the diameter of the tyres fitted is less than 15mm larger than the diameter of the largest tyre offered for the vehicle series".

My previous follow-up was based on VSI No 8, part 8 - Wheels and Tyres - which states:
"Replacement wheels and tyres may be fitted provided that they comply with the following requirements:..............................
- The overall diameter of any replacement rim and tyre must not be:
more than 15mm greater than the largest tyre specified by the vehicle manufacturer for that model or vehicle series; or more than 15mm less than the smallest tyre specified by the vehicle manufacturer for that model or vehicle series..............

The engineers report cost $155. Cheap, for the peace of mind , I thought.

Cheers

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FollowupID: 304952

Follow Up By: jemima puddle duck - Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 13:07

Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 13:07
gday geoff.
$155 for an engeneers report is pretty cheap.
what state are you in.
im in the process of geeting an report to be able to fit 33inch to my patrol but ive been quoted in vic about $190.
the guy ive been talking to said all i need is a brake test and make sure the mud flaps arnt to high.
ive also had to get another tyre placard sticken through nissan wich says my vehicle came out with 15x7 inch wheels with 31x10.5x15 tyres so i can legally fit 8inch rims that i need to fit 33x11.5x15 tyres.
was there any thing esle you had to do to get the certificate.
thanks
you reckon your cute
richard(eskimo)
but im a lot cuter

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FollowupID: 304971

Follow Up By: Geoff - Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 18:20

Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 18:20
Howdy JPD,

I'm in Victoria (Werribee). The engineer is in Melton.
I didn't do anything other than gather the relevant data (tyre OD's from tyre manufacturers web sites) and present the car to the engineer.
No brake test or new tyre placard because the 285/75x16's are only 5mm larger than the largest size offered by Nissan in the owners handbook. Well within the 15mm allowance.
It took about an hour or so for him to inspect the car and then write the report. I then trundled off to VicRoads to present the certificate to them.
No drama there either. I called the RACV and they weren't interested in the tyre size if I was using standard size rims and it was roadworthy and legal.

What model Patrol do you have?
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FollowupID: 304989

Follow Up By: jemima puddle duck - Monday, Jan 12, 2004 at 13:00

Monday, Jan 12, 2004 at 13:00
gday geoff.
i have a 3ltr gq that came out with 750x16 on 16x7 rims.
750x16 are the equivelent of a 32 inch tyre thats why i got to get report
and the tyre placard i have only says 16x6 rims so the new placard 15x7 allows me to go to 8 inch wide.
thanks fore your reply.you reckon your cute
richard(eskimo)
but im a lot cuter

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FollowupID: 305022

Reply By: ExplorOz Team - David - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 11:52

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 11:52
Guys,

Thanks for the replies so far however I am looking for people who have actually had a problem with a claim or had a claim passed. I know the rules are a little different everywhere but has anyone actually had a claim refused based purely on tyre size modifications? Or had a claim passed even with a different tyre fitted?
Regards
ExplorOz Team - David
--------------------------
Always working, not enough travelling ;-)
AnswerID: 42468

Follow Up By: Member - Rohan K - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2004 at 17:19

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2004 at 17:19
David, you have probably seen my (definitive) post on this issue (at least as far as NSW is concerned). My investigations were born from a desire to remain "roadworthy" per the RTA rather than specifically avoiding insurance problems.

I have not heard directly of an insurance claim being denied on the basis of un-roadworthy tyres. However, I have had personal experience with having re-registration refused on that basis. If I had subsequently replaced the "un-roadworthy" tyres after rego, and had an accident, and the insurance company started asking questions, it could have been ugly. But, none of that happened. I have also had 2 mates suffer rego refusal on the same basis. For one of them, that led to a more thorough inspection and a trip over the RTA pits.

I don't believe all the hype about insurance companies looking for any excuse to avoid payment. I've never experienced that attitude. However, if an assessor believes tyres may have contributed to an accident, and they discover the tyres fitted are "un-roadworthy", I have no doubt they will review the validity of the claim somewhat more closely.Smile, you're on ExplorOz
Rohan (Sydney - on the QLD side of the Harbour Bridge)
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FollowupID: 305148

Reply By: Member - Russell S - Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 21:31

Saturday, Jan 10, 2004 at 21:31
I have a Prado RV6 which was involved in a bit of a prang - young bloke came through a stop sign at me. Not my fault so his insurance company had to cough up. The RV6 came out with 215/80 R16 tyres which are hopeless on a Prado, so I had put BFG A/T 265/70 R16 tyres on it with GXL Prado rims. Nobody blinked an eyelid or asked any questions. Vehicle was fixed and off we went. Not a good example, perhaps, but there you are.
Russell S
Prado RV6
AnswerID: 42514

Reply By: Member - Peter- Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 07:15

Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 07:15
Good point nigel, I always deal with a local independant tyre dealer Mr Tyres in Asquith if anyone is interested, it is owner operated and as the 'buck stops there' any owner operated place isn't going to stick there neck out. They will advise customers of what is right and wrong. A large chain is going to hide behind the "wasn't me, he doesn't work here anymore" to wriggle out of any litigation.
David our local club has an underwriter from the NRMA coming along to our next meeting and we intend to get an answer to all these curly grey area questions in black and white. Some of the more common ones like tyres, suspension, steering wheels and seats have already been asked and he will provide answers to on the night so we might have some idea later in the week.
AnswerID: 42540

Reply By: Member - Rob- Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 23:28

Sunday, Jan 11, 2004 at 23:28
David,

Sara rolled our Pajero a few years back on the road to our farm. Had put new tyres on 2 months before. At the time of purchasing these tyres I discussed with our local mechanic come tyre dealer about getting higher profile tyres as I wasn't happy with the ground clearance and he advised me not to put the tyres I wanted to put on as they were too far outside the manufactures specs (don't ask me for the facts and figures it was too long ago) so I put some others on that raised it approx 15mm.
The point is the insurance investigator asked a bucket load of questions about the tyres and if I had of gone against the advice of my mechanic and got the bigger tyres I got the distinct impression that our $42000 claim would have been in jeopardy.

Regards Rob
AnswerID: 42624

Reply By: macca - Monday, Jan 12, 2004 at 13:15

Monday, Jan 12, 2004 at 13:15
Interesting isn't it David, that there is only a couple of replies to the original question and that is not concrete but plenty of replies,follow ups. Still would be interested to know the answer if there is one out there :-)
AnswerID: 42664

Reply By: Member - Melissa - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2004 at 14:19

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2004 at 14:19
David,

We have 265/75's fittted to our GU. As stated on a previous post, standard is 265/70. I had a very minor, single vehicle bingle awhile ago and had absolutely no trouble getting the claim processed and approved through SGIO. In fact, they didn't even ask or look at the tyres. Perhaps the minor nature of the accident was the reason they weren't interested in the tyres...I don't know. Had I had a major prang incurring major $$$ damage maybe it would be a different story but I can only tell you what I know.

:o) MelissaPetrol 4.5L GU Patrol &
Camprite TL8 offroad camper
http://members.westnet.com.au/flatdog
AnswerID: 42808

Follow Up By: Member - Rohan K - Tuesday, Jan 13, 2004 at 17:09

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2004 at 17:09
Melissa, I think its a combination of the extent of the damage and whether or not the assessor considers the tyres (std or otherwise) a contributing factor.Smile, you're on ExplorOz
Rohan (Sydney - on the QLD side of the Harbour Bridge)
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FollowupID: 305147

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