Custom Slide on Camper Design Advice

Leisha,

If I have read this post correctly, you want a slide on camper plus a trailer.

It will be all to much for the Mazda. The vehicle is too light in the chassis to carry all that weight.


Wayne

It looks very good but I agree with the others, are you sure the ute is going to carry all of it? I looked up the specifications on Mazda's site and the highest carrying capacity for any 4x4 model in that range was 1411kgs. The manufacturer has no idea what any owner is going to put on the car so the specified weight is for a bare cab/chassis with a near empty fuel tank. From that you have to deduct the weight of the custom tray, your own weight, a full fuel tank, your water tank weight plus its contents, the tow bar weight, the weight on the tow ball, your camper weight, any other accessories plus anything you put in the camper or the cabin of the car. I think you are going to be well over the car’s capacity.

The areas you intend taking the car could also be a problem. Maximum towing and carrying capacities are for good highway type conditions only and should be reduced in many off road situations. Volume selling cars of this type and size should not be stretched to the limit in the worst conditions they are likely to encounter. Few people pay any attention to this which is why the Outback service centres do a roaring trade repairing broken chassis, diff housings, wheel bearings shock mounts, wheel studs etc.

Regarding a shower: I have seen permanent ones built into slide on campers but the majority don’t have them due to restricted space. A simple idea that my wife and I have used successfully for many years is a fibreglass tray placed temporarily in the centre of the floor. Ours measures 650mm square and about 100 high. It has a drain tube glassed into one corner which goes down through a bath plug in the floor. A shower curtain attaches to velcro around the top inside edges of the tray and hangs from the roof with elastic loops. A bucket of water is more than enough for both of us while the shower is just a cheap 12 volt hand held one from a camping store. The tray sits on the bed while travelling and is placed inside the car overnight.

I noticed that it is 2 meters wide, will you get it registered that wide as the widest I could make mine was 1.8 meters
Andy

Hi again, now to get away from the chassis bit i will list a few things for you to think about after reading the top and having a think about what i see here every day ..... we live in Doomadgee Far NQ and it is remote, also lived halfway up the Tanimi and in Arnhem Land so we have a good idea of what does and does NOT work ......
First ..... sorry to give you the bad news but the cat wont be able to go with you, if it is simply a MUST then cut your travel plans in half..
50mm insulation seems a bit excessive, every 2" added takes away storage space and 2", overall 4" is a LOT of space ... in a van where you actually "live" in it yes insulate but it is a camper and all going well you wont spend much time in it, dont kid yourselfs that you will not stay in accomodation, you need a break from the "camping" after a while ....
Keyless lock will stuff up with dust abd viabrations, "KISS" ... keep it simple ...
The "stuff" that uses water seems excessive for a couple, a washing machine can be the same bowl you wash dishes in and seems like you want all the stuff a caravan has in a tray camper, it simply wont happen ....
In short it is a good plan but it all adds up to a good camper trailer needed and you say you want to tow a trailer so i would start looking at good camper trailers, the market is getting tight at last and some good deals out there, you CON NOT build for what you can buy it now unless you are fully set up to do so, a heap of camper second hand are on the market now as people have brought them and find they hardley use them and quit then at half the cost and some even have simple showers and toilets in the, the ability to un-hook and set up and drive off and leave it ALL set up is priceless in the bush, having it on your tray even if it is a "slide off" is a major pain in the butt, slide it off and you have an empty tray, you want to go fishing or what ever you have to get it out from trailer or camper and re pack it on the ute then all in reverse when you pack up, un-packing and packing up are the biggest curses of travelling .....
My advise is go hire a camper trailer and spend some weekends away .....
Cheers
Joe

Thank you for all of the informative replies, this is a great forum!

Weight:
This has been the most troubling aspect of the design, and one we have given quite a lot of thought to.
We are intending to use the single cab with a 1415kg rated payload.
We have estimated the dry weight of the camper at 470kgs , with 430kgs of gear (fridge, power stuff, personal effects, etc), 150kgs for the two of us , 60kgs of diesel, 90kgs for tray, giving us a total payload of approximately 1200kgs.
We had originally hoped to carry water on the ute/camper however this would push us too close to the 1400kg max payload, so we came up with the idea of towing a small trailer of approximately 400kgs to carry water , generator, 2 x 20L jerry cans and rubbish.
When we setup for an extended time with the camper off the ute we can do a "water run" every few days to fill the 150L tank in the ute + tank in the trailer while the camper stays put.
Our plans so far is to travel slowly, mostly on sealed roads with no crazy 4WDing.
Thoughts?

Width:
QLD Transport website states a load on a ute must protrude less than 15cm either side of the width of the vehicle. The width of the ute is 185cm giving a maximum possible width of 215cm. We have gone slightly less than this to accommodate a change in vehicle if required in the future.

Splits : Thank you, thats a fantastic idea for the shower!


Thank you for the replies so far!

As said by others, I would be looking to shed a few kilos. Do you need 400ah of battery plus solar panels plus a generator??

Agree with the others none of the mid size utes will handle the load long term, even a Cruiser or Patrol will know its on the back.
No mention of cooking facilities but as you are already fitting a Webasto thermo top fit a Webasto diesel cooktop as well.
If you increase the solar and batteries to around 500w and 480ah you will have the same capacity as we have in the Oka and can leave the gennie at home. We use a 240v 1000w electric jug and a normal 240v toaster through the inverter as well as all the plugpacks to charge camera, laptop, Kindles etc.
You could get away with a smaller 1800w PSW inverter too as we have found it is more than enough.
Think about just using the insulated panels without a frame, just stuck together with Sikaflex, a couple of Oka owners have just done that and it is extremely strong.

All sounds fantastic but the BT50 won't carry much more than 500kg continuously and especially if it is used anywhere off road where road conditions will work it well past it's capacity. Land Rover derate their towing/carrying capacity by half in these conditions.
Just because it may be rated 1 ton ,that means in the most favourable, least stressed situations it may survive.

The rear axle strength and the chassis cross sectional area isn't anywhere near what is required.
If you look at BT50, not the new one, you will see the chassis is smaller and thinner than Colorado/Dmax/Nissan and they have been known to fail when overstressed.
Me thinks a rethink is on the menu.

Leisha a few things to consider:
*With so much of the camper protruding out past the ute, fuel consumption will be poor.
*The width & height will cause issues on narrow tracks or cleariance from trees.
*For a camper of that size I'd suggest it will weigh as much as 200kg more than your estimate.
*Rear access doors are historically difficult to dust seal.
*A cat will restrict where you can travel. As the majority of attractions around Oz are in National Parks you either can't go there or will have to find catteries. Not fair on the cat either locked up in the car for that time.
*Towing a trailer defeats the advantages of having a slideon. May as well just tow a van if just sticking to sealed road.
Good luck with your project & travels.
Cheers Craig................

why don't you consider a (GRP) foam/end grain balsa sandwich construction all bench tops cupboards etc can all be made using the GRP foam sandwich construction making it even stronger & light at 920 kgs its too heavy, , I've had problems with linear actuators & would not use them on any project again & would not fit a roof air con, you need to get as much weight as low as possible
you may even find by having the slide on that extra bit back can cause some driving conditions dangerous EG, on my old l/cruiser & patrol if i slip the camper back 300mm to fit extra crap near the head board on a dirt rd they both had a bad habit of loosing steering & pushing fwd
Good luck I,m on my fourth slide on & presently making my fifth

Joe n Mel n kids:
Thanks for the heads up regarding the lock. KISS definitely sounds like the way to go.
The sketch was done in "Sketch Up" a free 3d surface modelling program thats really easy to use. What do you mean when you say we'd have to halve our travel plans if we bring the cat? We are aware he will need to visit a cattery when we're visiting national parks, but is there something else we're not yet aware of? Unfortunately, not taking him is not an option.
The 50mm insulation was chosen because we're planning to do tasmania / the snowy mountains, and some hot places. The slide on will fit in a shipping container so there is the possibility of international travel too . We figured the more the better as anything we can do to save energy heating/cooling the camper is a good thing. The frame is 50mm square box section so the insulation should fit inside it nicely.
We will be living full-time while working so the washing machine is appealing.. The water consumption is quite high (50+L/load) so we wouldn't be able to use it while in remote locations. We found the hand operated wonder wash ( http://www.laundry-alternative.com/products/Wonderwash.html ) , however this doesn't appear to be big enough to wash bed sheets. Does anyone have any alternatives ?

Ozhumvee:
We've been umming and ahhing over taking a generator vs carrying additional batteries and are leaning toward the generator for a few reasons.
A second "alternate" source of power compared to all our eggs in one basket is desirable.
We should be able to do all of our "high power" tasks within 1-2 hours (cooking dinner, washing machine, charging batteries ) while the generator runs.

Inflataduck:
What problems have you had with the linear actuators? We are planning to have the mounting points externally accessible so that in the event of a failure they can be removed and roof opened manually.

All:
What vehicles would you recommend we look at to handle anticipated load?

Thanks for the great feedback!

Hi Leisha Shannon,

Good on you for doing the work planning your trip, and actually planning on doing it! However I have to agree with many of the other replies to your post in that the Mazda is just not up to it regarding weight.

I currently have a Mazda BT50 freestyle (2007) and carry a slideon camper that weights approximately 400kg's unladen. Even with upgraded suspension the chassis on my Mazda cracked on the Canning Stock Route last year, and subsequently I had the chassis strengthened and wheelbase extended. The next failure was the rear axle housing which resulted in the LHS wheel & axle leaving the vehicle. Even though I was under the vehicle GVM this happened. Everything has been repaired, but I have and will not carry any load in this vehicle again and are currently looking at replacing it with something stronger.

Consider seriously everything you plan on carrying, I can't stress enough about minimising the weight. The BT50 may do the job for you if you stick to the bitumen, but that would mean missing much of the fantastic places off the beaten track.

Good luck with your planning, and have a good trip.

Cheers, Geoff

Kiss is the way to go - Mine is home made out of alloy sheeting.

Once you start fitting these out you will add weight quicker than you can calculate.

Mine has a Roof top tent with storage below and swing out kitchen. I have rear compartments that I have no issue with dust.

My seal design has worked very well

I carry everything on our ute and we take it everywhere.

Slide on

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab331/Tony_Bristow-Stagg/CopyofIMGP2402.jpg

Reply if you want greater detail for this type of design

Regards Tony

I guess by now, you are doing some rethinking. In my opinion you need a 4.5 or 6T truck (like a Canter or Izuzu 4wd) to fit what you've planned. If you still are interested in this concept, then google Earthcruiser or All Terrain Warriors - a lot of ideas crammed into those two even though they are not slide-ons.

I'll fess up to not being a fan of slide-ons. From what I've seen, 90% of slide-on owners give up sliding the thing off - too much effort required and even more effort to get it back on.

Thanks for the feedback regarding the choice of vehicle. We are currently looking at Ford F350s as these appear to have a payload of around 1900kgs which would mean we can ditch the trailer and carry our water on board safely.

Is there any other similar vehicles we should be looking at?

Thanks all for the replies. We have decide that a ute based solution isn't appropriate due to our weight requirement so we are investigating light truck based 4x4s and associated camper bodies.

Back to the drawing board!

Hi!
We have taken the comments regarding weight onboard and decided a 4WD light truck configured as an expedition vehicle is more suitable for our needs.


Truck:
Isuzu NPS300 or Mitsubishi Canter (we are leaning toward the NPS based on feedback so far)
Single Rear Wheel conversion , ATW suspension
Bullbar, over cab storage rack, winch

Subframe / Tray :
Steel subframe, spring mounted (Army style)
3 x 150L external water tanks, 1 x 150L grey water tank.
Storage boxes

Camper:

Slide-on
lightweight aluminium base frame with aluminium angle covering edges.
Hard shell 50mm van glass composite FRP panelling for the floors, walls, roof, and internal divisions
Sikaflex glued construction
4.2m long x 2.1m wide
Camec Jupiter windows with second acrylic sheet for double glazing
Fully enclosed annex (2.5m x 2m)
externally accessible storage area

LED lighting throughout
webasto dual top diesel hot water and air heater
sink with mixer tap and lid
sump with 12v pump for grey water
150L internal water tank
Thetford Cassette Toilet
North-South Double bed over lounge area with pulley system to raise and lower.
Wall mount airconditioner
130L 12v fridge, Microwave convection oven, washing machine, misc appliances.
4 x 190W solar panels , 12v 750Ah AGM, 3000w inverter/140a charger


Floor Plan: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2UXqGAkJVXebVBfeThBWmJMdFE
Left Side: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2UXqGAkJVXedFhQSlJSRWhVa3c
Right Side: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2UXqGAkJVXeSUtneUJUVVQzc3c


We are looking for any ideas, opinions, improvements, and anything that we've missed. Any and all feedback appreciated.

Thanks again,

Leisha n Shannon