tow vechile

Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:39
ThreadID: 97422 Views:2676 Replies:8 FollowUps:19
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hello,
I have just purchased my first caravan which is a 19FT traveller sun seeker.
I am yet to purchase a tow vechile and was hoping to hear from people what are the better towing vechile..The tare weight is 2,300kg and i was looking for a diesel motor.I was looking down the landcruiser path but they are expensive,then maybe heading towards a prado or nissan patrol.Any feedback would be appreciated.I just want a strong towing vechile with good fuel economy and reliable.
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Reply By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:59

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:59
One thing to be very consious of, is not pushing the towing capacuty to its limit.

So many peopel tow vans and trailers with vehicles bordering on their legal towing capacity....not a good idea at all

If you are expecting to do serious highway work or any off road work at all, best to stay well under the towing capacity like 75% tops.

remember too many vehicles to achileve the declared towing capacity you have to reduce the load carrying capacity of the vehicle.

you need to work on
declared towing capacity
declared maximum combination mass
declared maximum ball weight

they don't always work out like you would think.

cheers
AnswerID: 492907

Follow Up By: disco driver - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 15:24

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 15:24
There is another issue to factor in as well.

That is the MAX axle loadings, both front and rear.
Failure to stay within the stated limits may result in bent diff housings or worse.
If the rear axle is overloaded, and it can be where everything else is OK (GCM, GVM within limits) it will be extremely unstable under all conditions.

Disco.
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FollowupID: 768526

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 16:43

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 16:43
oh yes indeedy, the whole vehicle combination loading needs to be looked at as a whole.

Also consider that ine the recent crop of vehicles the towing capacities have been incresed considerably on vehicles that are not very different to those past that had much lower towing ratings.

there are many of us just shaking our heads and asking HOW???


Then we see the reports and pictures of light utes ( various brands) with bent rear chasis...apparanly being used within specification.

certainly towing with plenty of spare capacity up ya sleve is the smart and comfortable thing to do.

cheers
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FollowupID: 768531

Reply By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:08

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:08
Stevo,

Following Bantam's advise you are looking at a towing capacity of 2875 plus in a vehicle.

Remember, Discovery's, Pajero's, Proado's, Challengers, Rexton, Pathfinders as well.

If you are happy with a ute, it will open open up a larger choice of towing vehicle.
AnswerID: 492909

Follow Up By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 16:57

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 16:57
Hi Tony,

Pajero's are limited to a ball weight of 180 kg if the loaded weight of the van is above 2.5 tonne. Just something to be mindful of.

regards,

Heather
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:43

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:43
Thanks for the heads up Heather, I am sure Stevo will appreciate your input.

I only provided Stevo with a list of vehicles that could be considered, with no preference, just a 3 tonne capacity, Stevo would need to drill down on the other aspects such as tow ball weights.

However that said, the Pajero original tow package is rated at 250kg not 180kg, see archive here and Hayman Reece specs

Where I did make a mistake is the Pajero can only tow 2500kg not 3000kg (specs here)

So Stevo, cross the Pajero off your list or possibles mate.

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Follow Up By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:53

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:53
Hi Tony,

The current model AD Pajero can tow 3000kg, but between 2,500kg and 3,000kg the tow ball cant exceed 180 kgs! We know this because we own one and have been looking at updating our caravan.

regards,

Heather
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 13:06

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 13:06
Thanks aqain Heather,

But with all due respect, you are talking soley about the AD Pajero I am talking Pajero's in general, but anyway.....

From Mitsubishi web site quote: "The Pajero has a maximum towing capacity of three-tonnes and a maximum tow ball download of 180kg; however, when towing at 2500kg or less - as is the norm in most towing scenarios - the maximum tow ball download increases to 250kg."

So towing up to 2500kg the ball weight is 250kg as I have said.
Towing between 2500 and 3000kg reduces the tow ball weight to 180kg.

So any Pajero (prior to the AD) 2500kg towing capacity and 250kg tow ball weight as per the specs and therefore as his van is closer to 2800-2900kg loaded, not suitable.

Unfortunately this is not adding to Stevo's original post.
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Reply By: Member - IanB - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:43

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:43
LC200 GXL TTDV8 - you'll never look back (except to see the vehicles you pass on the road!)...

Some good reading about towing with Landcruisers (various) over on lcool.org.

Real opinions from owners. 70 series, Prado's and 200 series - lots of bedtime reading on the iPad!


---IanB
AnswerID: 492912

Reply By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 14:01

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 14:01
Stevo, keep in mind that if the Tare Weight of your van is 2300 kg, this is its unloaded weight. Once you fill water tanks, gas bottles, your food and clothing plus other necessities like a bit of grog your Gross Trailer Weight, which should be listed on a compliance plate, may push you up to the 3000 kg mark. Also as has been mentioned pay close attention to the downward force applied to the vehicle tow ball via the vans drawbar once you have loaded up.
In my humble opinion it is not just the tow vehicles ability to tow the van but having enough "bulk" to stop and control the van in side winds and wet/slippery conditions.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 492916

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 17:47

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 17:47
Just to foolow on pops comments.

In the not too distant past, it was not permissable to tow more than the vehicles unladen weight.......this limited the tail wagging the dog syndrome.

only recently have the design rules changed and towing capacities above the unladen weight been pesmisable for pasenger vehicles.

Just think on the physics of towing somthing heavier than the tow vehicle...Hmmmmm

cheers
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FollowupID: 768537

Follow Up By: Rockape - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 20:17

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 20:17
Dam there goes my roadtrain rating
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FollowupID: 768546

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 23:22

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 23:22
Yeh it all gets a bit different when we start talking heavy transport.

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FollowupID: 768560

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:38

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:38
Nup,
No different at all. Heavy load and light prime mover, just the same as a car and trailer.
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Follow Up By: Flighty ( WA ) - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:04

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:04
Rockape
Pure gold mate pure gold !!!!!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 15:38

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 15:38
yeh road trains and other heavy combinations are very different.

To start with the tow vehicle is designed with the primary purpose of carrying towing large loads.

Heavy vehicle trailer braking systems are very much more highly specified and fundamentally fail safe.

To drive a heavy combinaton or a multi-combination you need specifc licences, meet specific health requirements and a zero BAC

AND

they are not long high centre of gravity pig trailers ballanced on a single axle group.

cheers
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FollowupID: 768594

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 17:36

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 17:36
Nup,
they are the same.

The brakes on the van should be as good as the brakes on a triaxle trailer when stopping their respective loads.

Prime mover with single trailer all up 42 tonnes. Prime mover between 8 and 9 tonnes. You can also push that out to 46 tonnes all up with accreditation.

What the hell a special licence and zero BAC has to do with it I will never know and don't want to as the question was asked about a tow vehicle.

AND

tell that to the guy carting cattle in a double deck or running a pan around a roundabout.

I am finished with this as I don't wish to annoy the Original Poster.

RA. Ex dumb steering wheel attendant.







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FollowupID: 768603

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 20:36

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 20:36
So Rockape according to your post followUp a, lets say Landcruiser with a Tare Weight of around 2 tonnes should be ok with a van of about 40 tonnes as long as the driver has some sort of accreditation. Hmmmm.... interesting thought.

Cheers
Pop

Ex dopey diesel/truck mechanic/driver now thankfully retired
Yeah I too have had enough and will gracefully withdraw so as not to offend those with delicate constitutions.
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FollowupID: 768615

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 20:43

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 20:43
Sorry couldn't help myself, how much of the trailer weight is transfered onto the prime mover at the turntable? 44,000 lbs was a figure that stirred something in my rusty memory banks. I believe a maximum of around 350 kg 770 lbs on that 50mm ball.
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FollowupID: 768617

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 21:25

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 21:25
Pop,
To start with my post referred to a respective weight in comparison to a heavy vehicle. Simply look at the weight of a light vehicle tow vehicle combination and a heavy vehicle combination.

As for the weight I believe you are talking about the diffs. 44000 lb diffs, SP40 diffs and 38000lb diffs. These are now old school from my time.

Sorry for the miss interpretation about the loads. Here goes.

No a landcruiser can't tow 42 tonne. The Prime mover can. What I typed was the prime mover can move 42.5 tonne legally when it weighs around 8 to 10 tonne and the landcruiser that weighs around 2.5 to 3 tonne can only move around 6 tonne. This is nothing to do with ball weights or anything else. It is to do with the statement that a lighter vehicle in this day and age can't pull a heavier load than it's weight.

Ra.





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FollowupID: 768620

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 22:01

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 22:01
Rockape mate I could buy into your foolish argument....but I will not.
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FollowupID: 768624

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 22:18

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 22:18
GOOD. No Argument at all.

get over it and don't have a foolish argument just a different point of view.

That is not what the forum is about and if you had done as many miles as me in both trucks and caravans then you can say I don't know crap. Learned google one.


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FollowupID: 768625

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 23:20

Thursday, Aug 16, 2012 at 23:20
helpfull and informative as always
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FollowupID: 768628

Reply By: Member - Broodie H3 - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 15:04

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 15:04
Hi Stevo, We had a problem with our original tow vehicle 2007 Toyota Hilux, it could only tow 2.25 tonne, so we had to upgrade and after a lot of research came up with the Nissan Pathfinder ti 550 v6 diesel, towing capacity of 3.5 tonne, fuel economy on our recent trip to Lake Eyre, according to the vehicles computer was 13.8 l/hklm, and that was towing a 23ft 1996 Roadstar caravan, fully loaded at 2.6 tonne. Our speed was around the 1ooklm mark depending on who was driving at the time, My wife did have us up to 115, while I had a sleep for a while [about 2 hrs] and the fuel economy went out the window but as she said we covered some distance in that time. we left from Perth. I hope this helps.
Broodie H3
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AnswerID: 492921

Reply By: Stevo.63 - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 15:22

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 15:22
Hi there,

thank you so much for the information you have all provided to me..
It has bee invaluable ..Vey much appreciate your time.

Once again thank you all

Stevo
AnswerID: 492922

Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 15:35

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 15:35
Seems you need a vehicle that: A. Is rated to pull 2800kg + -* (or whatever your van's tare + payload figure is). B. Can take a download on the towball of 280kg* (*some vehicles can pull a lot but can't take 10% of that on the ball !!). C: Has enough payload remaining after accommodating that towball load for passengers, fuel and all the other goodies you will put in it. The whole issue needs to be thoroughly researched before you buy the car - if not sure on the topic, take expert advice - from posts seen here and elsewhere at times, it seems best to avoid caravan and tow vehicle salespeople for this advice (such as... auto versus manual transmissions make a difference in capability for some vehicles) - get it right yourself. Oh.... and as mentioned above.... with the indicated loads behind you at times, plus a van size that catches a fair bit of wind, it's safer to have a chunky, weighty, sure footed vehicle with a towing capacity that well exceeds the minimum requirement.
AnswerID: 492925

Reply By: ozjohn0 - Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 16:50

Wednesday, Aug 15, 2012 at 16:50
With a TARE of 2300Kg the Prado is out of the picture as are a number of other vehicles.
The loaded weight of the van will most likely exceed 2700Kg.
Ask the manufacaturer to give you a payload of at least 500Kg or better still 600 to- 700Kg
i.e. The van needs to have an ATM of at least 2800Kg. (500Kg payload).
So you'll be looking at a tow vehicle with a 3000 - 3500Kg tow capacity.
Ozjohn.
AnswerID: 492927

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