WARNING - PURCHASING WINCHES PROMOTED BY MAGAZINES

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 09:56
ThreadID: 98556 Views:4765 Replies:13 FollowUps:16
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Beware of buying wiches promoted by a leading 4wd magazine - I ordered and paid for one over two months ago. It was puportedly shipped over two months ago and has not been delivered. The expected email follow up has beenignored and the email address is no longer attended. Phone follow up has resulted in the expected "freight company is looking into it" "we will get back to you". Of course they haven't. They don't care, they have my money. Off to small claims court next I suppose. This is a strange approach - you can imagine most people giving up if it is only a $100 or so, but $700 odd for their top of the line winch is worth fighting for.
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Reply By: Member - Kris E - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:06

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:06
Did you pay for it using a Credit Card?
If so that is your first port of call. They will investigate and if they are not happy with the response they will refund your purchase.
Kris
Never forget: cars have owners, Defenders have field service personnel. The other car is my crumple zone.

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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:52

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:52
if its over 2 months ago it may not be an option.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 15:56

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 15:56
Kris is right, up to 12 months ago is usually fine. Get on to them, straight away. They deduct the money from the sellers account until it's resolved. That will make the seller jump very high. You could even expect your winch in 48 hours :-)
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Reply By: Patdog - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:22

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:22
Thanks Kris, I did not think of that avenue.
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Reply By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:46

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:46
Patdog - don't forget to drop consumer affairs and the 4WD mag a quick line. You never know the mag might actually care about their advertisers and readers and give you some help. Irrespective, at least you'll be helping other potential 'victims'.
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Reply By: Patdog - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:58

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:58
Yes Bazooka good suggestion - I have alerted the magazine very early this morning and suggested they at least distance themselves from the supplier.. Rumour has it they purchased or part purchased the Winch/4ws accessories supplier. I have had no response from the magazine, notwithstanding I have been a subscriber for many years.

My main concern is that there are no other victims .

It is amazing to contrast the treatment with what you get from some of the suppliers that support this site - I have had fantastic dealings with ABR Sidewinder and I know there are several others regularly mentioned on this site as providing excellent service and I trust members and visitors will actually be encouraged to deal with these companies as we know they are reputabele. They should not be tarred with the same brush.
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Reply By: gbc - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 13:28

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 13:28
If it's who I am thinking of, and the winch company is not a Lionz but another big cat ;) then I think you'll find that the 4wd mag announced on their forum that they had a financial interest in the aforementioned pussycat winch importing company, so it might be difficult for them to distance themselves from it. Might be worth jumping on their forum because I think you'll find you are not Robinson Crusoe - there is a gathering wave of disappointment.
AnswerID: 496788

Follow Up By: Member - John Baas (WA) - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 21:37

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 21:37
Hi all.

I purchased a batterypack plus subs to the mag plus a 'Pantherz' 'hi-lift' jack about 10 weeks ago. The subs and the batterypack turned up tout suite.

However, after 8 weeks I complained about not recieving the jack. The reply was: "We sent out the high lift jacks aust post they sent them back to us saying that they were too heavy for them to deliver, we are now in the process of resending them via courier so you should see it probably in the first 2 weeks of October sorry for any inconvenience."

The jack turned up 2 weeks later so maybe not all is lost??? (it's for sale on Gumtree if anyone's interested - I was only after the BP but the extras made the deal attractive).

Cheers.
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Reply By: Member - Steve R (NSW) - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 14:05

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 14:05
As Kris E said, If you paid by credit card and you haven't received the goods by now get straight onto the bank that issued the credit card. They will raise a disputed transaction and should give you your money back within a week.
Regards
Steve
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 14:08

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 14:08
Unless it was signed for then it was not shipped. They have a legal obligation.
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Reply By: Patdog - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 14:44

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 14:44
Glad you got the message GBC - I do intend to put the cat amongst the pigeons. Thought I might be wasting my time on that forum and that my post would be removed. Will have a go 'though, plus a couple of more popular 4wd forums where more hard core off road orientated 4wders lurk as opposed to less hardcore tourers visit. I am still keen to get the message across here 'though. I don't visit the magazine forum much at all so did not realise that I was not alone. Might have a look and see what's happening there!
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Reply By: Ozrover - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 15:04

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 15:04
That's a shame Patdog,

Hopefully it's only lost in transit & it turns up.

Thats no excuse for not returning your e-mails tho'

I've buoght two of these winches so far & other than being a little slow in turning up they both arrived fine!

AnswerID: 496794

Reply By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 15:54

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 15:54
I purchased a winch from the afornotmentioned company. It was delivered within 5 working days to Perth. When I went to install the winch I noted that the free spool didn’t work. I sent an email to a man named Paul. He responded to my email within minutes and we continued back and forward until we had identified the issue and a resolve at which point it all went south. I could not get a confirmation that a replacement part had been sent as per our email stream. This went on for close to 4 weeks. Being told it had been sent then the following week told that it hadn't. What really annoyed me was that I needed to strip the gearbox and requested that I be sent a new seal "in case" I needed it. Was assured that it would not be needed and that one would not be sent. On stripping the winch I found that the seal had been damaged when originally built. I then rang them back and said I wanted to BUY the seal as I was sick of dealing with the Warranty side to be told that. "We don’t have the seals and do not know if or when we may get them but please try calling back in three months" hence why I was told it wouldn’t be required. Since then I have removed the seals and used gasket goo.
I will say though that for the price I paid I am happy with the final product and as much as I hate the thought I would buy again and recommend them to others.
The winch is cheap, I have stripped it and am happy of the quality of the gears, solenoid and motor and after extracting a Jeep from the surf (Lancelin Beach for WA locals that know how soft it can be) the winch pulls like a mule. (for how long I shall see).
To the original OP call them and give them hell. I spoke with Nick he was very well trained in dealing with pi55ed of customers and knew what to say to make them happy. Which I did find irritating as I wanted to fight not have somebody agree with me. However he did return my calls and followed up as best he could in my opinion.
Regarding the mag, it’s not only the Pussy cat company that they have partnerships with its also the KangaROO that is in bed with them now.
AnswerID: 496796

Follow Up By: Muddy.au - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 17:56

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 17:56
That Mag and all the animals are in bed together, don't be sucked in by their product tests and comparisons, give the whole lot a wide berth.
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Follow Up By: Member - John Baas (WA) - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 21:46

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 21:46
You're not having a go at our mate ROO-theee are you Craig??? :-)

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 09:56

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 09:56
Hi John,

you can leave off the - theee. Products are pushed more than the pussycat.
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Reply By: River Swaggie - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 16:06

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 16:06
I have bought an awning off them recently and it arrived as stated..But a few months ago when the Big Sale was on they did state they were waiting on a shipment and it was around two months from memory to wait..

I dont believe you'll be ripped off..Just wait a bit longer and see how you go..I would give it till December.Sure contact your credit card peoples and see if you can do this to cover your ass..


Goodluck
AnswerID: 496798

Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 16:10

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 16:10
more patients than me.
Unless stated when purchased that it is on backorder (which they do) 10 day to the middle of nowhere is all I would wait.
You can be assured that they got their money ok and that the warranty count down has started.

Craig
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Reply By: Patdog - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 17:53

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 17:53
Well, it was delivered today! Got to agree that for the money it is a great winch - some of the guys in our club have them and reckon the top of the range model is really well built, but that the cheaper ones are not worth getting - quality is nowhere near as good.

I am just annoyed that I had to get so abusive to get things moving. They did make good in the end and I will quote the following email I received:

Good afternoon Simon,

I have been back in contact with the freight company yesterday & today, I have just heard back from them now informing me your winch was delivered at 1622 this afternoon at your address.. I am extremely sorry for the Freight delay. 20 days in freight is clearly unacceptable. We have taken this up our freight company, as a further apology I would like to offer you a $50 credit on your next purchase with me.

Talk soon,



Regards,



N***

I am not complaining about the initial 30 day wait to shipment as they were up front about that, it was the month after shipping when nothing was happening and lack of any follow up to a few complaints. Haven't heard from the magazine either!
AnswerID: 496808

Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 20:40

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 20:40
If it wasn't for the fact there's been a number of poor service complaints along the same line then maybe it was a slack freight company. (NOT)
Craig.............
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Follow Up By: Ozrover - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 18:20

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 18:20
Good to hear that it turned up, both of the winches that I ordered took at least six weeks to be delivered by ****express.

I'm now waiting on a roof rack for the 100 series to show at the BILs place, hopefully it doesn't take that long to show!

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Reply By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 22:13

Tuesday, Oct 16, 2012 at 22:13
Yeap... thats why I only use Warn winches bought from ARB..... one - I know I can get parts and service, two - I don't think ARB is going anywhere soon.

Yes I know I have paid a premium.

All you have to do is look at all the bedroom based importer who are popping up on forums and ebay..... there must be at least 47,000 so called business here in Australia who sell 4x4 gear.

As for magazines..... toliet paper is cheaper to buy, the more they get paid from a seller the better the gear is until next month when another seller pays more.

Patdog.... cut your loses and put it down to experience, claiming your $700 may cost you $1500 with no out come.
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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:27

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:27
olcoolone,

I waited 4 months for a replacement part from ARB for my winch Bar.
They too blamed everyone from the freight company to the distributer. In the end it was a clerical error on ARB's part and their arrogance held up the process because they blamed everyone before themselves.
As for the bedroom based importers... I think you would find that the company in question has supplied a lot more winches over the last 5yrs than ARB have.
The cars in the 4wd club I am a member of predominately all have winches and they get used several times a month. Tigerz, Ironman etc are used by a lot as they are constantly getting submerged to spend 3 to 4 times the amount on something that is not warranted for water ingress is not viable. Most would be shocked at the abuse these so called cheap winches have endured.
I do question how a small minority of company’s can claim that their product is worth more than 4 time that of another that is more than capable of doing the task.
You will even find that Warn now do a "cheap" winch as the "Avenger" has taken most if not all of the sales. When I questioned what have they done to get the price down I was informed by the shop owner, "Nothing they just want to get back in". So are they selling at a loss or just reining in a massive profit?

If it wasnt for the smaller importer I would hate to see the prices that the Bigger shops would charging.

Craig
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 15:21

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 15:21
"there must be at least 47,000 so called business here in Australia who sell 4x4 gear."

You may well be right....................

A Google search for "4x4 gear" produced 4,530,000 results within Australia!


Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 15:44

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 15:44
"...Warn now do a "cheap" winch as the "Avenger"..."

Thats odd, I thought that Avenger winches were produced in Thailand and imported & distributed by 'Avenger 4x4 Australia Pty Ltd' of Chelsea victoria.

Warn eh? You learn something new each day!

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 16:03

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 16:03
Alan read it again.

You will even find that Warn now do a "cheap" winch as the "Avenger" has taken most if not all of the sales. I was told this by a leading 4wd supplier.
It is called the "Tabor" and labelled as their Value Series the 10000lb winch is around $1150.

Alan please take the time to absorbed somebody’s comment before you race of to take a pot shot. A question to clarify might have been warranted. Not your snide remarks. Be mindful that it is ExploreOz not a literature forum

Out of interest I goggled ARB Australia and got - 7,970,000 results (0.60 seconds) Unless one was to refine the search I see little relevance in the figure.


Regards
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 18:03

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 18:03
Sorry about that Craig, I did misread it. Easy to do, just like misreading "Allan".
Not a snide remark. What has "literature" got to do with it?
But anyone can make a mistake..... by even spelling "Goggle".

Incidentally, the Google results were to humorously support olcoolone's expression that "....there must be at least 47,000 so called business here in Australia who sell 4x4 gear." Nothing more.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 19:05

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 19:05
Allan,

It is not the first time that you have replied to somebody’s comment without taking the time to read it.
You cant even take it on the shoulders that you miss read my comment and leave it at that
“Warn eh? You learn something new each day!” I would consider a snide remark.
And by memory I spelt your name wrong last time..

Nothing More..
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 20:34

Wednesday, Oct 17, 2012 at 20:34
Craig, I told you that I was sorry for misreading and therefore mis-understanding your post. I do not have a winch and I am not well informed about the differing brands. I thought you were saying that Warn were manufacturing a cheap winch called 'Avenger' which appeared to be made in Thailand. A Google search for Avenger brought up 'Avenger 4x4 Australia' who I figured were distributing the said winch in Australia on behalf of Warn which seemed odd. It was news to me and as I said, I learned something new. I cannot understand how you can perceive something sinister or snide in that.

Cheers
Allan

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