Tire Spiking

Submitted: Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:02
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Is there any way of reducing tire spiking in the Great Sandy Desert?

Are there spike-proof tires?

What is the best way to repair them in the bush?
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Reply By: gbc - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:17

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:17
Get onto some MRF steel tyres. They only fit split rims, but are 12/14 ply of all steel belts. Air is pretty much optional on those babies.
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Follow Up By: gibson - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:50

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:50
Thanks.

Am I right in saying that a split rim is never unsplit during repair and repaired similarly to a tube tire puncture?

How close to 100% spike-proof would they be with burnt mulga and sharp stones.

Could they be repaired if spiked in the side wall? How?

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Follow Up By: splits - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 21:10

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 21:10
Have a look through this site.http://www.beadelltours.com.au/tyre_information.html It contains enough tyre information for on track and cross country desert travel to keep you reading for an hour or two.

Another section of the site contains tyre reports from their trips. It includes all the punctures and the methods used to repair them in the bush.

Thread 98857 on the 4th of November has some information and photos on split rims.

Note the photo of the tyre on the Patrol. That is about as close as you will get to a puncture proof tyre. The same tyre, but in highway tread pattern, is used by Beadells for cross country driving.
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 08:08

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 08:08
Nearly puncture proof but at a cost in certain situations particularly sand. As I recall those tyres were run so low they got sand passed the bead and chewed out the tubes and or allowed the tyres/tubes to rotate tearing the valve stems.

Have a look at the Toyo Open Country MT. Its sidewall construction makes it a lot more resiliant and many of those on this forum that do a lot of the rough stuff swear by them. A very credible "party Balloon" as Mr Hutton calls them

Toyo Open Country Review
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Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 15:29

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 15:29
hi
once you get to 10-14ply tyres you will find it gets very hard to get a plug into them as they are quiet tough with those sort of plys stick in patches are the way to go
they are availuble in many sizes and put a tube in as well
if the stake was the size of a small tree like in the pics
but from then on they are usually only suitable for more bush driving
cheers
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 17:13

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 17:13
Hi Mick,

In your review of Toyo Open Country tyres you say......"It operated well in soft sand at pressures below 20psi (but I wouldn’t want to be doing that all day)"

I am interested in these but what is the issue with being below 20psi all day Mick? I have found it necessary to run at 18psi all day crossing the Simpson Desert. Or will I get the same flotation at a higher pressure with the Toyos?

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Mick O - Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 00:16

Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 00:16
For a blatant troll this isn't a bad thread actually Alan. No the trade off with running the tyres at low pressures is HEAT. While this hasn't happened to me with the Toyo tyres, I have found that constantly running the tyres of a heavy vehicle at low pressures in sand or anywhere for that matter can lead to issues like radial cracking near the bead.

I qualify this by saying that my truck is extremely heavy (another reason for using Toyo's in the first place) and it is mainly the tyres carrying the greatest load (read rear tyres here in my case) that have the issues. I tend to run them low for the shortest amount of time before airing up a little to get them around the 24-28 psi mark.

You should get good flotation on most tubeless as pressures decrease. Again the factor determining whether you will do any long term damage is usually sidewall construction and strength and the load ratings of the tyres. They will always run hotter. I must admit the only time I've had to run anything lower than 20 psi has been on some stretches of the Canning and getting myself out of the odd bog situation be it sand or mud.

Cheers Mick.
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:28

Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:28
.
Thanks Mick, I figured that generated heat was probably the answer but wondered if there was other unbeknown factors.

My Troopy is pretty heavy too and I find it necessary to run at 18psi on soft sand such as Fraser or the Simpson. Have even had to go down to 15psi on one Simpson dune at the end of a warm day. The Tyre Pressure Monitors (internal) have not shown particularly high temperatures under these conditions, possibly expected due to low speeds, but they are reading the air temperature in the well of the wheel whilst the sidewalls may have experienced a significant temperature rise within the rubber. And my Cooper S/T's do show a couple of small cracks in the sidewall rubber within 10mm of the bead.

I chose the Coopers particularly for their flexibility so I could run them at low pressure in sand but that has come at the cost of tread wear on rocky roads. They are now nearing replacement and I was considering BFG or Bridgestone but your blog on Toyo Open Country has me interested. As I do little driving off-track sidewall strength is of less importance than flexibility at low pressures. The newer Copper S/T Maxx claims a stronger sidewall but the tread rubber is probably no different.

Ahh, it's all a compromise and difficult to make a choice.



Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:19

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:19
Tubeless tires and a decent plug kit is the best way to repair them but i dont know about spike proof tires, maybe 10 ply tires!!!! Michael
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Follow Up By: gibson - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 20:18

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 20:18
When you inflate a tubeless tire, especially if it's been bent out of shape after a puncture, is there any trick to ensure the bead is airtight - if my meaning is clear?

Will a cheapo compressor from a $90 jump starter do the job?

I suppose a wise traveller takes spare tubes?
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Reply By: get outmore - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:32

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:32
if you find the answer I think you will be rich
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Reply By: ABR - SIDEWINDER - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:42

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:42


Some can't be fixed.

Regards

Derek
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Follow Up By: Old Dave - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 20:05

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 20:05
Hi Derick

I had one like that in the kennedy ranges i used a kris cross patch

on the inside and put a tube in it for a good spare.

Regards Dave.
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 20:59

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 20:59
That's fixable and to Aust standards as well. Just need someone with a side wall vulcaniser. I know that the job can be done in Adelaide and Melbourne.




See you and raise you one Derek lol



Cheers.
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: mudbro2 - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 23:12

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 23:12
You guys have a strange way for collecting firewood.
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Follow Up By: Member - Markthemilko - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 00:06

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 00:06
Dave,
it would be far better to fit the repaired tyre onto the rear drivers' side (easy for the driver to check periodically) and use it immediately to test its' reliability, and if that fails then you have a reliable spare which will get you home!

To anyone thinking of putting a tube in a tubeless case, practice it at home. Can you lever the tyre off the rim, for starters? Make sure there are no sharp edges on the rim, especially around the valve hole, and is the valve stem long enough? Ask your tyre supplier for a demo!

Happy travelling!
Happy 4WDriving
Mark

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Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 15:21

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 15:21
hi
guys there not stakes there small trees
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:56

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 19:56
The tyre preferred on some of the Kimberley bull catchers was a Khumo 16 ply rag.
just don't try driving on the bitumen with them.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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Reply By: equinox - Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 21:14

Friday, Nov 23, 2012 at 21:14
You'll have no problems in the Great Sandy with tyres, easy country. Easy Peasy mate.

The Gibson Gibson, is where you will have your dramas.
Check out some of Mick O's blogs, he has a few pearler stories for you to look at.

Chees
Eq.

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.



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Reply By: Rockape - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 08:20

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 08:20
Yes!!!! you can eliminate it if you have a strong back.

With these.




Then again I destroyed one when it ripped part of the carcass open and the tyre started to distort as the foam started to try and force it's way out.

RA.
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 09:36

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 09:36
Hi Gibson

It all sounds great, but speak with any person that has travelled true off track remote desert travel and there are no tyres and are puncture proof. Many have tried various types and brands but at the end of the day given the right type of terrain, they will all get punctured.

I have posted this picture a number of times that shows the means that very big companies that have more money than you and I to spend on trying to stop punctures in Mulga country. The picture was taken in the Great Victoria Desert when a US based company were looking for oil around 40 years ago.

How successful were they??????????

I never heard.



If you do find an answers, there will be many here on the forum that would love to find out about it.



Cheers


Stephen
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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:49

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:49
Try a set of these ???? :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wAvxQfusWU
AnswerID: 499116

Follow Up By: Candace S. - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 13:21

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 13:21
I like those! Wonder when, if ever, they'll be on sale. And what they cost.
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 18:47

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 18:47
Candace - this link



has a guy trialling them in a private vehicle ... so they must be available ?
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 11:19

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 11:19
Goodyear and maybe others make a range of tyres that they refer to as EMT (Extended Mobility Technology) or "run-flat". Awhile back we had a dealership that supplied a brand of ATV's to various mobs including geological exploration companies and the SAS. They had these tyres fitted either ex factory or we replaced before delivery. Even these could get staked in extreme conditions but without any air pressure you could still get home. I wouldn't even try to remove or fit without a split rim or a tyre changing machine. You will also feel the effect of much reduced weight in the wallet area after buying a set.

Cheers
Pop



AnswerID: 499119

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 14:06

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 14:06
Another pic, just 'cos I can :-)
Nothing special about the tyre.
This is in the northern Pilbara and these vehicles spend 90% of their time 'off track'.



We run all steel Michelins on the OKA.
I have staked sidewalls (single ply steel) but have NEVER penetrated the tread area (5 layers of steel).

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 03:00

Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 03:00
Now thats bush ingenuity!!

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Reply By: Rockape - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 14:15

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 14:15
This one comes with it's own chain.



The only thing a tyre won't pickup is girls.
AnswerID: 499134

Reply By: Mick O - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 14:34

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 14:34
You might like this.

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 01:51

Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 01:51
Bit younger and thinner in that video mate :)

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Reply By: gibson - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 15:25

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 15:25
Thanks to everyone. You know what you're talking about.

It seems the lesson from all this is choosing the right tires for the terrain in question, have lots of spares, know how to fix punctures and buy quality glue and patches and tools.

And take the billy. And don't panic and don't get hurt.

Someone told me old tires are harder and best for the bush. I might try and get old, freeby tires from the dealer: brilliant idea or suicidal?

AnswerID: 499143

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 15:54

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 15:54
hi gibson
knowing how to fix a tyre is one thing but learning by getting square sided tyres is not something i would willingly want to learn to do if i had my time over again
old tyres do get harder thats true
but they also breakup as the rubber loses it strenght and they will blowout easily
i wouldnt trust them at speed under load on the highway a bit risky
i dont think they would be that puncture resistant because of the delamination factor through age
im an ex farmer who has mended more than my fair share of punctures over many years on all sorts of vehicles and machinery while clearing new land and all sorts of driving conditions but it was a necessity
fixing flat tyres is one of the most boring things i have learnt in my life but one had to do it in order to keep the wheels turning
cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 16:29

Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 16:29
"im an ex farmer who has mended more than my fair share of punctures over many years on all sorts of vehicles and machinery while clearing new land and all sorts of driving conditions but it was a necessity
fixing flat tyres is one of the most boring things i have learnt in my life but one had to do it in order to keep the wheels turning"

Ain't that the truth!

My solution is low tyre pressures (20 psi) max & while your pressures are low, don't ever change up out of 3rd gear. About a foolproof as there is but not infallible.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 22:09

Saturday, Nov 24, 2012 at 22:09
Gday Gibson,
Like many on this forum, I have my own opinions and biases!!! And there is no perfect solution.

When it comes to brands, don't use Grandtreks, Coopers or BFGATKO as they all have thin sidewalls (thin sidewalls = less heat = more highway mileage). Many other brands are good. For tubeless, I favour the Bridgestone 694/697, the Goodyear MTR, the BFG KM2 and for a cheapy the Federal Couragia AT have a thick 3 ply sidewall in many of their sizes.

When it comes to splits, yep the really thick sidewall MRF can be very good.....but......you need quality tubes; the tyres and tubes need to be put together by someone other than the junior tyre fitter; and these tyres can be a pain in soft sand - they just don't bag down because the sidewalls are too thick. If you puncture a split, you are committed to pulling the thing apart and repairing the puncture - a lot more work than a tubeless plug.

I still prefer tubeless tyres - because there is no tube that will puncture itself, and I like the simplicity and satisfaction od simply pulling out the tyre pump and slipping in a plug and being on your way 10 minutes later. I reckon on the trips I go on, the splits get flats twice as often as tubeless (half the time its a dodgy tube).

And my preference for tyres in this country is for worn tyres. Why bugger up a sidewall on a tyre with full tread. I run plenty of tyres - had a worn set of 694's and a new set of 694's on the 79series depending on where I was going - new tyres get used in the high country and civilised trips, worn tyres get used in the GVD and other desert escapades.

Just my opinions!
Cheers
Phil
AnswerID: 499160

Reply By: BarryR1 - Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 00:40

Sunday, Nov 25, 2012 at 00:40
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Inappropriate Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
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