Electric Brakes

Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 17:16
ThreadID: 99225 Views:3368 Replies:7 FollowUps:9
This Thread has been Archived
Hi all
I have a new 200 Landcruiser with a Red Arc unit installed by the Autolec and having trouble getting the adjustment right. In traffic i find it easier to turn nearly off as we seem to get a surge/ jerk effect especially as you brake the second or third time slowing down. The van is about 2300kg. Any tips.
Richard
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Bush Wanderer - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 19:26

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 19:26
Certainly sounds odd Richard.
I use it on two heavy trailers and find it to be easy to swap settings between the two.
Have heard of auto sparkys connecting to the wrong brake wire.....May have a differnt sympton though. If not that then possibly the unit is faulty. Maybe have a chat to the redarc guys....they are really good to deal with and should be able to diagnose this for you.
Good luck.
BW...
AnswerID: 499368

Follow Up By: Bush Wanderer - Friday, Nov 30, 2012 at 22:58

Friday, Nov 30, 2012 at 22:58
Obviously everyone's experience is different.
I tow a 3.5 tonne triple axle horse trailer and a 2.7 tonne offroad trailer....redarc is much better than my previous prodigy.
Have had emergency braking with the horse float on a couple of occasions, and it has been impressive to say the least...but I am very careful to make sure my settings are absolutely spot on.
BW.
0
FollowupID: 775554

Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 21:06

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 21:06
The whole problem is you got a timer controller instead of a proportional controller. I don't know why RedArc designed those units after the rest of the manufacturers stopped selling them.
PeterD
Retired radio and electronics technician

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 499378

Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 21:20

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 21:20
Hi Peter,

Gotta agree with you, they may be OK for very, very light trailers but can be downright dangerous for anything with a bit of weight.

I know some people like them for their simplicity, but its dinasour technology in todays world. Redarc usually make great designed products, don't know what happened here :(

Cheers

Captain
0
FollowupID: 775370

Follow Up By: SDG - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 22:15

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 22:15
Anybody want to explain the difference between these two? Why is one more dangerous than the other, etc.
0
FollowupID: 775376

Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 22:43

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 22:43
The Redarc applies the trailer brakes as soon as the brake pedal is touched, it doesn't matter if you are simply coasting to a stop or doing an emergency stop, the amount of stopping power is governed by your preset (thought there is also a timer component too, based on how long the brakes have been on for).

A proportional controller like the P3 varies the braking force from a sensor. It measures the rate of decelleration and varies the braking effort accordingly. Lightly touch the brakes and the trailer brakes are barely on. But jump on them for an emergency stop and it will apply full force, up to the amount of your preset.

Or put another way, how would you like to have an off/on switch for your car brakes, instead of a brake pedal that you can vary the stopping force with?

Cheers

Captain
0
FollowupID: 775379

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Nov 30, 2012 at 19:32

Friday, Nov 30, 2012 at 19:32
The RedArc still has a delay of a couple of hundred milliseconds, the P3 has three modes of delay B1, B2 and B3...... B3 has the shortest delay and is more like the RedArc.
0
FollowupID: 775547

Reply By: Ross M - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 23:37

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 23:37
No matter which unit you have, the correct adjustment of the brakes is important and as they get hotter after each application the brake efficiency of the lining material may not be fully working until warmed.
This will appear to make braking of the trailer more pronounced after repeat applications despite the same amount of application by the tow vehicle.

If the brake linings aren't fully adjusted they will receive a greater degree of "wrap on" effect as the linings get hotter. This combined with slack shoes will tend to make the brake shoes hang on and give a jerky application and releases.
AnswerID: 499391

Reply By: Member - Howard P (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 23:45

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2012 at 23:45
Hi Richard
I have the same Red Arc unit as you on a 100 series cruiser, and the operation of my unit is exactly the same as yours. What I have to do is turn it down to about setting 2 when driving in traffic and then when at HWY speeds wind it up to settings 4 or 5, this seems to work OK. It's a bit fiddly to adjust while moving, and would be better if there was more resistance on the adjustment knob to allow better control when adjusting.
My Travelander is around 2000kg when fully loaded.
Hope this helps.

Cheers

Howard
AnswerID: 499393

Reply By: olcoolone - Thursday, Nov 29, 2012 at 07:36

Thursday, Nov 29, 2012 at 07:36
The RedArc brake controller is not that smart and cannot detect different deceleration rates..... basically it's on or off and is often refereed to as a time delay brake controller.

The RedArc is old technology.

The Tekonsha Prodigy range for example and many others can detect different deceleration rates and apply varying amounts of brake force and is refereed as a motion type brake controller.

Motion type brake controllers are the best and I would recommend the Tekonsha Prodigy range over anything else.

The only advantage of the RedArc is it can be remote mounted.

We sell 14 Tekonsha Prodigy's to every one RedArc.

In the 200 series we mount the brake controller in the ashtray location.
AnswerID: 499408

Follow Up By: 410 - Thursday, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:05

Thursday, Nov 29, 2012 at 12:05
Hi All
I would like to thank all for the tips. I just love Explore Oz forum, it doesn't matter what question you have someone helps with an answer and most times within the day. THANKYOU
Richard
0
FollowupID: 775414

Reply By: The Bantam - Thursday, Nov 29, 2012 at 23:58

Thursday, Nov 29, 2012 at 23:58
Time and time again we hear of people using sub standard brake controllers and getting substandard performance from a brake system that should work very well indeed when set up proprly.

those electric brakes have probely cost you over $1000 retail per axle to have inclided in your van or trailer......a cheap controller is a poor investment.

A respectable proportional controller will cost arround $200......money well spent.

make the change and you will bless the day you did.

cheers
AnswerID: 499476

Follow Up By: 410 - Friday, Nov 30, 2012 at 17:00

Friday, Nov 30, 2012 at 17:00
Hi Bantam
When we enquired about a brake controller, we were told the red arc was the go. One would think guided by a couple of autolecs we made the right decision, but not.
Thanks
Richard
0
FollowupID: 775533

Reply By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 01, 2012 at 00:15

Saturday, Dec 01, 2012 at 00:15
Unfortunately.....ya just cant trust people to sell you the right thing these days.

Mybe they could make more on the redarc...maybe thay just did not know...bet ya they sounded convincing though

I regularly come across people who swear by the crude brake controllers that are little more than a voltage regulator........fixed braking effort set by the knob......I can remember early rigs that consisted of a simple adjustable resistor or even jug eliment and an aligator clip

there are also people who mount these on the trailer and just wire em direct to the brake lights.

There are some very rough people in the trailer business.....and because of this there are a great many people who simply don't know how good an electric brake system can be.

Properly set up the trailer braking effort should track that of the tow vehicle..pretty well seamlessly, without any fiddle.......ya might back off the brake effort a little on slipery roads,and ya may adjust ya enertia controll a little on very steep hills like comming down ranges...but otherwise no fiddle should be necessary...and the rig should stop damn well.

cheers
AnswerID: 499553

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Dec 02, 2012 at 09:50

Sunday, Dec 02, 2012 at 09:50
The biggest problem these days is they do sell for profit and most time the person selling the product has never used it..... BUT he has read all the marketing material that says it's the best and his mate says it works a treat.

We sell products to the heavy transport, earthmoving and mining sector and we have a simple rule..... use it for 6 months, compare it in the real world and make sure it does what it is meant to...... it's called product evaluation.

I would sooner sell for less profit and supply a better product then to sell a poorer product for more profit.

You would be surprised with some of the things we find don't work how they should, we trailed a well know tyre pressure monitoring system (TPMS) and found a big shortfall in it's performance..... the importers said it was a bad one...... how can you have fourteen bad ones in a row?...... and it wasn't a batch problem.

12 months later they finally said there could be a problem, how can you have a product on the market for over 4 years and never come across this problem...... simple it's called field evaluation.




0
FollowupID: 775633

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Dec 02, 2012 at 23:43

Sunday, Dec 02, 2012 at 23:43
I am simply gobsmacked, how piss poor so many products are, yet there are people out there who will bold faced tell you they are wonderfull and marvelous KNOWING they are what they are.

I have many times either tested samples or returned items supplied, telling the supplier that the items do not perform as claimed....but they contiue to sell them in volume unaltered and unashamed.

I know of one "golden eared" audio supplier that continued to sell a whole batch of a certain product supplied worldwide in huge volume...knowing that it was manufacured faulty....did not recall....even worse they would not honour waranty claims unless the purchaser could accurately describe the fault..."mate it don't sound right" didn't get it fixed.

Unfortunately..."let the buyer beware"

It discusts me even more when I know we have better ability to design and manufacture electronics than we ever have and with good reliability even in china...and we still see product that could easily be better with little or no cost or effort.

cheers
0
FollowupID: 775661

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (9)