Diesel fuel conditioner

Sounds good but Pro-ma does have Poly Butane Ashless Lubricant for low sulhur and a Surfactant for water dispersant from your message I assume it wasn't up to speed.

Yes that is true pro-mar is supposed to be able to treat those conditions.
I guess its just a little extra for safety....and I use pro-mar less concentarted than the manufactureres recommend.
Pro-mar (like all additives) is relatively expensive. My method exends the use. A 5 litre container of pro-mar lasts me 2 years. 2-stroke oil and acetane are pretty cheap.
Cheers

Do you mean Acetone? Acetane is a gas.

Yes you are correct...acetone ( clear liquid)

HMMMM.....who would buy a fuel additive from a multi-level marketing company that sells make up, vitamins and junk jewlery?

Oh yes it has a polly butane ashless lubricant...and what exactly is that?

sorry but very scheptical of the promar product.

As far as running acetone in diesel.

This has been widely canvased....and it is ill advised.

The primary reason is that acetone is a very agressive solvent and can badly effect, seal materials and other plastic/rubber components.

Forget the rest of the stuff you are sticking in your fuel tank and stick with a good quality mineral two stroke at 200:1.

and every now and then a proven biocide additive like Fuel doctor, to mop up the diesel bug that may be hanging arround.

cheers

Thanks for the advice Bantam but I will stick with what works for me.
Been doing this for over 10 years now and no problems at all.
Each to their own...I guess.

Yeh there are heaps of stories and ill considered things people do to vehicles.
And some people have been doing them for a very long time.

At best they do nothing, at worst the make slow and incideous damage.

The matter of diesel fuel additives is very very well discussed.

As I may have said in the US there are whole forums about diesel engines and quite a few of the what we would consider large diesel shops ( common in the US)have their own labs, that have tested and published.

Acetone has been well and truly debunked as being benificial or advisable.
It is problematic for seals and stuff and does bugger all for water.
Same goes for metho in diesel.

along with sump oil, or even clean engine oil, yeh it burns but sump oil just dirties ya filters and the varuois additives in engine oil are not good for ya engine when burnt.

And the DRr j Bell stuff that Pro-Mar are touting.....the technology is nearly 100 years old and he's been dead for ages......as far as additive trechnology is concerned it old rope.

QUOTE from promars web site

"Dr R.J.Bell. Pioneer of the world's very first fuel additive In 1909, just a year after Henry Ford started mass production of the Model T Ford"

Fuel and lubricant technology has moved a very long way since then.

Oh at at 500 to 1 they will be doing bugger all...that is even before you consider the dilution and interreaction of the individual agents.

Just try running the two stroke alone at 200:1 and consider the result.

cheers

Tell me Bantam what did you think of Camira Engines? The reason I ask you is that I had a JE and when I bought the Patrol I gave it to my father, it had 292,000 kms on it no oil used between regular oil changes then he got rid of it because of hip replacement and needed an automatic at about 350,000 kms and it still wasn't using oil and fuel economy was still very good. This had regular Promar treatment which seemed to work so maybe I will try the vitamins and my wife is talking about trying the make up if the fuel and oil treatment has worked so well for us.

300 000K is hardly miraculous, I have baught several used cars with more Km on them than that.....and from the evidence of the first service they where not particularly well looked after.

When ya start getting 600 000 and 800 000, ya may have some claim of doing the right thing.....even then, it no mirricle

Regular oil changes count for a great deal...of ya cant get 300 000 out of a motor you must be doing something wrong.

As for the camira...the best thing was the motor.

cheers

Have to agree with that Bantam.

Never used any fuel or oil additives in my cars.
My Ford Falcon has done 350,000 & Hilux 320,000 & they both only drop down halfway from max/min line on dipstick between services as they have since new. I do all my own servicing at the manufacturers recommended intervals. By not going over the recommended service interval & using good quality oil & coolant my vehicles will still be fine for years to come WITHOUT using money wasting additives.

Mostly advertising hype I reckon.

Cheers
Stu

Obviously the Bantam and the Bushranger have not heard of the Camira's engine propensity for oil consumption, well its notorious. I thought the idea of a forum is to give true and proper researched information for others to benefit from. Bushranger you will note that I said no oil consumption at 350K not what you are consuming and yea I do my own services on the Patrol, Camira and Diahatsu that includes oils,greasing,trye rotation, wheel beareings, radiator flushing and brake flushing every two years so I do have a little idea of what is what.

Umm I think 1/2 a litre in 15,000 for the Falcon & 10,000km for the Hilux respectively, can hardly be called burning oil.

Most cars use something between services.

Still reckon additives are a waste of money.

Still not as good as the Camira and it is known as a oil burner, still if you'r happy with that go for it.

No matter how good or bad a particular vehicles reputation for faults.....whatever they may be.....there will be vehicles that either do very well or do very badly.

Just because it is a motor with a bad reputation...there is no guarantee that it will perform poorly or die early.

It is this statistical fact, that manufacturers of dodgy products regularly use to defend the reputation of their products.

All they need to do is find the lucky few that are not having problems and are willing to testify.

cheers

On the matter of additive being worth the money.

Over the years I have used a number of differnt additives on different vehicles.

I have been carefull which ones I have used and I am left with no doubt that certain additives do work and are effective and are worth the money.

There are quite a number of additives that have been independently tested and certain ones the results are significant and not reliant on vague asertions about engine life or fuel savings.

There are several anti-fungal diesel fuel additives that are proven to knock down diesel bug......if you have been aflicted...you will be left with no doubt that the product has worked or not

The two stroke at 200:1, has been so widely proven there is not much doubt that it works, some people depending on the fuel and the vehicle get better results than others......but the fact that it improved the lubricity in a measurable way is beyond dispute.

cheers

Gee bantam didn't mean to upset you but if the injection of oil was that benefical you would think one of the smarter manufacturers would be doing it to get a performance edge over the rivals.

Ok bantam you'r happy with your lot and I'm happy with my lot so lets get on with it, lets all get back to the chook yard

I am never happy with my lot, I am always looking for more and better information.

Likewise the, fuel, oil and reputable additive companies are looking for better technologies.

Quite often the aftermarket additive of today is the maniline specified component in the fuel or oil of tomorrow.

Most of the reputabe additive companies revise their formulations from time to time as the base oils and fuels change and as various additive components either become available or affordable...OR as the additive they where selling becomes obsolete because it is in common use in the commercial fuels or oils.

The major fuel and oil companies are in a very competitive and strongly profit driven market and are more inclined to do as little as possible to keep seelling product, thus their use of additives lags what is available as an aftermarket product.


In 1909 when Henry Ford released the Model T, the fuels and oils of the time would have been as crude as the vehicles they where used in.
You just have to look at the progression of oil specifications with the generations of vehicles to see this in action

Back in the 70's and 80's in the days of standard and leaded super fuel there where a lot of fuel additives about that contained octain improvers......I used a couple of them and they did work pretty damn well........these are largly obsolete, because they are now exactly what is being used to achieve the higher octains in fuel without the use of lead...and they are used in concentrations near their limit of effectivness.

Additive technology has move on from the use of disolved or finely ground soft metals like lead and copper ( RJ BELL era), thu the graphite and molibdium sulphide period (STP, WYNNS and Molybond), to the fulrinated synthetics like teflon and PTFE ( Tefcote II, Nulon and the like).

Ya got move with the times.

Even the two stroke we are talking about has changed a great deal since the simple 30 weight oil ( standard engine oil of the period)typically run at 10:1.........Ever seen a two stroke engine running at 10:1....Cough cough splutter.....to the current low ash, low smoke formulars that can be run at 50:1 and beyond in their native applications.

No skin off my nose if you don't want to take advantage of the very good information and some of the excellent modern additives that are now available....... including the common, economical and proven use of modern low ash two stroke at 200:1.

cheers

Batam we all know what you are talking about but give it a rest you are becoming tiresome.

Yes I understand that not winning an argument can be tiresome.

cheers

Its not so much about not winning an arguement I have just remember something I was told a long time ago and just remembered " never argue with a fool because people may not distiguish who the fool is" so with this in mind I bid you farewell before I get unjustly labelled.

Unjustly labled...no risk of that.



Hmmmm

Bantam,
here is an actual controlled test of 2 stroke in diesel.

2 stroke for the Dieselplace

People can analyse the results and decide what is best for them. Me I always used it in the troopy.

RA.

The link posted is one of the many independent tests arround this whole 2 stroke thing.

Two things must be noted.
Some of the additives in the list have other specific purposes, like keeping fuel fluid in cold climates.

the two stroke used was marine TCW3 two stroke, and should not be expected to perform as well and a good mineral product.

This report has been discussed at length, and the consensus is that the two stroke would be much further up the list if it was a good mineral product.

Start asking arround, and reading the posts.....there are a hell of a lot of people running two stroke and getting noticable improvements.....no BS.......and quite a few convinced scheptics.


cheers

TCW3 is a mineral oil

Bantam,
Everyone of the products tested by the dieselplace with the exception of the 2 stroke oil and the used engine oil, claim to increase lubrication in diesel engines.

Please stick to the facts. TC-W3 is a high grade Mineral oil designed to lubricate outboards which will mix with fuel.

Note! In my reply I stated that I have used TC-W3 2 stroke oil in my troopcarrier for years.

I posted the link so others can make an assessment as to the pros and cons of using the oil. They will make up their own minds from accurate information as supplied by the link.

As can be seen in their tests they don't know what the outcome of running it through an engine manufactured from 2007 on will be so they place a warning.

I can't see a problem with it but I am not a researcher, engineer or industrial chemist. Down the track will tell the story until someone with the above background confirms it's compatibility with new engines.

Another problem that arrises is warranty. I am lead to believe that the dye in the oil can be picked up in the fuel system and if that happened I know what they are going to say. We can fix that for you sir and we can arrange a loan for you so you can pay us.

If you have any good tests on new common rail engines please post the links as I for one will be very interested.

Have a good one,
RA.

From my experience TCW3 two stroke performs well enough, I have used it my self.

But some report doing jar tests and finding that it does not mix and stay mixed with diesel fuel as well as the mineral two stroke oils designed for air cooled engines such as motorcycles.

While TCW3 may be mineral bassed, it is significantly modified to achieve the biodegradability requirement....it breaks up on contact with water.

It is also reasonably argued that due to the biodegradability requirement of TCW3 it suffers in several performance factors compared to the aircooed mineral two strokes.

It is also not recommended to use TCW3 in common rail diesels, where there are plenty of people running good quality air cooled mineral two stroke in common rail diesels.

I only posted my response because while the TCW3 two stroke comes out pretty well in the tests, a mineral two stroke oil designed for air cooled engines would probaly have come out better.

AND, I am getting marginally better results using a mineral aircooled two stroke than I was running TCW3.

cheers

Is your Hilux common rail?
Would you use 2 stroke in a common rail?
I used to use 2 stroke in my old hilux and it was great in that, however, now have a common rail diesel (isuzu), and have not yet used 2 stroke in it as I am not 100% sure on it's use with high pressure systems like common rail.

Cheers

Firstly I would not own a common rail vehicle at this stage...the consequences of minor problems and mistakes are just far too costly for my liking.

Though there are people who testify that they are running two strole in their common rail vehicles.....A regular poster on another forum I frequent has been running two stroke in his common rail hilux since new.

The warning though is to ensure that a mineral two stroke designed for air cooled engines is used.

Truth to tell the two stroke probably burns better than the industrial by product we call pump diesel.

If you are concerned do some reading on the matter...start by googling two stroke common rail diesel.

cheers

Yes, aware of what you say and have waded through the various threads elsewhere regarding the hows, whys, what's etc surrounding 2 stroke prior to using it for some time in my old hilux, but,
"Would YOU use 2 stroke in a common rail?" (yes or no should suffice...) - just interested, that's all.
All googling yeilds in regards to use in CR is conflicting info and S#itfights on other forums, which is hardly surprising.

Cheers

yes I would use two stroke in a common rail vehicle if I was lumbered with one.

cheers