Snorkel or not??

Robin what do you mean by "diesel cars being more tolerant of water than diesel" ? By this do you mean that you have less chance of water entering the combustion chamber (but it does happen on petrol engines) as the petrol engine will likely cutout first ? Or do you mean that a petrol engine can pass a little water in the fuel tank where a diesel will be an expensive fix ?
I have a snorkel (as with 5 previous 4wds including one petrol), for extra benefit of not picking up as much dust from the inner wheel arch. If you ever watch a 4wd on a dirt road, the amount of dust that collects in the wheel arch is incredible, so taking the 4wds air from higher up (provided you are not following too closely) keeps aircleaner significanty more dust free than without. An exact same vehicle was travelling with me on the GCR, and he was blown away at the difference in his aircleaner to my aircleaner...and i was behind, but out of the dust.
When wading in deep water I will also use a blind....to be sure.
Advantages are much greater with a snorkel than the disadvantage of .... ?
BW.

Hi BW

To answer your questions - in general the effects of snorkel/no snokel are overated with the exception of 2 areas.

1/ The water damage to fuel systems is much greater on diesel - many horror stories with up to $20k fixes have been outlined on this site so no need to go thru that again.

2/ In river crossing where snorkel has an obvious depth advantage - hence I concentrated on that aspect.


Dust is a bit different - and can be both better and worse with a snorkel.


No snorkel=more dust is true if travelling behind someone and visible dust is in the air , but there is less dust if travelling alone - using my Patrol as an example- the air intake is at the very front of the car - whereas the with a snorkel behind the front wheels is subject to air billowing up from front wheels.
Its not much , but not as good from front guard - here is a test for you , place you hand outside A pillar when
driving and you will feel warm engine air billowing up.

Odd examples don't mean much on either side of the discussion but from interest , no detectable effects of dust have occurred in over 1/4 million kms in my last car and it drives every week in it(e.g. reduced comp ratio etc)
This is what counts as having less dust in air filter could just mean one isn't using a good enough filter for the really fine particles.

For me though what counts is the loss of max air flow - it is true that in some installation you can get
resonance effect that increases air flow at some rev point - but this has to be lost at other (usually higher) engine revs.

So typically one ends up with added an extra meter or 2 of piping to ones air inlet with 1 or 2 sharp bends and this has a nett constriction and hence less max air input.

I also don't like anything that reduces car flexibility like big snorkel inlets which (as per 2 weeks ago)caused a driver with us to damage his as it caught on a branch on a narrow overgrown track.

Yep blinds are good.

Oops I forgot to address your other point about cutting out - things are not like they used to be , engines like in my car no longer have distributor and hign tension leads - instead they have a sealed coil pack which plug directly into the spark plugs on top of the engine at over 1.2m height and they run so cooler than higher compression diesels.

Never tried this test , as haven't found a volunteer (maybe this Xmas) but I believe my engine would run longer under water than most modern diesels - its not the engine so much as their super hot turbos and exhaust components that would probably die first.

Robin,
I have to disagree with the super hot turbos. The engines at work get their turbos swimming regularly when they are hot with no adverse effects.

The only engine I saw destroyed by water and that was one without a snorkel and that was caused by hitting a water crossing to hard and the water being forced up and into the intake.

Modern diesels are all turboed so the fact of a bit of restriction in the inlet won't worry them and normally the piping to the aircleaner is a larger diameter than the air cleaner to turbo piping. I don't believe they help or hinder the intake air.

Don't know about you vehicles but I have never seen dust thrown up by my front wheels as high as the snorkel intake.

I have done hugh K's on dirt and I never even look at my air cleaner until after I get home. Most times I don't even shake the dust out of it as there so little visible on the filter. No I use genuine filters so they do filter properly. Well as good as they can because they aren't Nissan
ones. LOL.

Jason you can see what I think you should do.

Have a good one,
RA.

Cracking can definately occur RA but these are the more extreme case and it doesn't occurr from a splash or normal use.
Usually what happens is that surface cracks appear and grow over time.

I'm surprized you haven't seen dust build up on back windows of Utes etc - the test I suggested before easily shows how the air moves, the effect is worse the slower you drive, you can actually get to a point where dust will cover the snorkel and not the very front of the car.

But again we shouldn't over emphasize small effects , however when you arrive at a closed gate you will find dust billowing past the car from the rear first - you usually have a couple of seconds for it to travel forward from the snorkel to the front of the car , so keep on your toes.

Robin,
You have lots theories about how much better a petrol engine is compared to diesel.
Rockape, mining companies, emergency and rescue organisations etc have the practical experience on advantages of diesel over petrol.
Take your pick.

Robin,
I am sure cracking can occur but I have not seen it. I would think if you drove into a creek that had a water temp of 2 degrees and you had been working the vehicle hard it may occur but so might a lot of things.

The dust will come up the back windows but it won't go forward to the snorkel unless you are travelling slower that the wind and that wind is from behind.

Yes no one can escape dust when stopping but I fail to see that as being revelant as that happens to all vehicles snorkel or no snorkel. One exception was a plant operator who drove his scrapper through 9 sets of dog gates on the Booroondoo Road near Moonie. He didn't have any problems with dust at the gates.

I know how clean my filter is and I know how much dust is in the engine bay after a trip. Lots.

All earthmoving gear and trucks have their intakes as high as possible for a reason.

RA.

Just for fun , this guys happy he has no snorkel RA.


This post is about snorkels Dennis - but if you put up a post about diesel/petrol with some arguements in it I will answer - but you might get surprized.

Good photo.
But I don't slide my 4wd round corners like a rally car or through bulldust like a madman. It is a good way to come unstuck. I also don't get to rebuild my engine after each use.

Transport companies don't put things on vehicles that don't work or add weight.

Robin,
What an argument between a one eyed Troopy freak, and a Patrol Petrol Head? The bun fight would go on for ever - we would end up being moderated and given the chop by The Thought Police.

Dennis,
Don't own a Troopie anymore and moderation only comes about in this case if you start to get nasty. None of that has occurred or will occur.

Now I do like troopies but I am not one eyed and you are the one who is going to get moderated if you call others names. Not a good look trying to insult others sunshine. Best you read the forum rules.

It is a discussion as simple as that and Robin has his thoughts and I have mine.

Others can decide the merit of the discussion.

RA.

Rockape – sorry you misunderstood, I’m the Troopy Freak – I was eluding to the challenge from Robin, for an educated discussion on the merits of diesel v petrol.

Dennis,
sorry I miss read the reply and all is well.

Guess the best you could do is to start another thread about the evils of both types of fuel. I am sure the discussion would go on from there.

Have a good one,
RA.

My diesel Patrol has a snorkel, and not had any trouble with dust. Cleaner with it than without. I put it on after using standard intake after about a year of ownership.
Just a standard ram head, so I also can't see air being restricted with it being rammed down the throat

the added snorkel weight up top may put the patrol at a similar danger to the Prado of tipping over :-)

...especially if it fills up to the brim with dust...:)

Cheers
Greg

G'day Robin,

Thanks for your opinion. The forum is about other experiences, and you have told yours....and I am personally happy with your answers from your experiences.

Was not meant to cause the usual bickering from forum members....you know, mine is bigger than yours and all that rubbish.

BW.....

I have a petrol Terracan & a diesel Troopie both have snorkels. The Terracan's air filter gets as filthy as all hell whereas the Troopies is very clean after driving in similar conditions. Mind you the filter in the TC is a much finer filter cloth and small in size than the Troopies.

WRT the Terracan the snorkel has made a huge difference in regards to the air filter. Prior to the snorkel the filter was just about a throw away after a single day's driving in dusty conditions. Now the filter will last a month in the same thick dust.

Bingo Steve ! Exactly what I was going to say.. much cleaner air.

We were all around that area this year and I used one of those sock like pre filters for the first time. It caught so much rubbish - bugs, seeds, dirt - I was glad I used it.

Some people say to pull out the air filter and knock out the dust each day. I reckon that increases the risk of getting dirt in past the filter when the filter gets removed.

As long as I kept the sock clean I could leave the filter in place.

I've also had times when the water has been up the windscreen that's made me glad I had the snorkel.

Then there's the time I forgot to put it into low range before I drove into Nolans Brook. The Landcruiser sat there filling up with water but the motor kept chugging away.

I'm a fan of the snorkel.

Steve

People have told me stories about this sock restricting airflow a little.Have you noticed this at all?

SDG, not really - might restrict it a bit, but an air-filter full of dust restricts it a lot more.

I've got a 40 series with 2H engine, and I find it runs (my gut feel anyhow!!) a lot better with the snorkel. Cleaner & cooler air.

Definitely runs heaps better when I clean the air filter out.....

I was thinking it might restrict the flow but it's all good.

It picks up a lot of dust and bugs so I make sure I check that often, which is a five minute job.

When it needs it I wash the sock, reoil it and stick it back in.

It makes a big difference at the filter.

We did 13,000 km and I got a service at Broome and they changed the filter. It was like a normal dirty filter but we did more dirt than bitumen to get to Broome. The main aim is to stop dirt getting into the engine and the sock filter does that job without starving the engine of air, and that's in my dirty old 80 series.

Steve

4x4 models only come in diesel. But agree all diesels should have a snorkel.
BW.