Swaybars and Suspension limits

Robin
To use a suspension without the sway bars connected (except quietly driven on tracks and using the flex) is asking for disaster as the whole dynamics of the vehicle would be altered for the worse and possibly dangerous too.

The shock you have shown indicates the springs of the vehicle have far more down ward travel than the shock has. It will therefore, when a sway bay is also disconnected, fire the shock immediately to the limit of it's travel and pull the end off.
The shock shown is was in no way matched to the extension ability of the spring, so what else would you expect the shock to do when driven past it's extension ability.
The idea is to have a shock which will allow the axle to be lowered to the extent the spring demands. Something which appears to be severely lacking here.
The shock should be just getting to the end of travel and lowering the axle as the spring is also just getting to full extent and then it won't be hammering the shock to full extension, hence no failure will/should occur.

PS. Many fitters of springs and shocks don't check much and the customer is running on an unknown level of trust.

Robin,
if you owned a pre 90 troopcarrier you wouldn't have to worry about disconnecting the rear swaybar as they didn't have one.LOL.

You just get sea sick on roundabouts.

RA.

Hi Robin

Just some thoughts to expand on your experience.
As I understand it some shocks can act as suspension travel limiters while others are definitely not designed to do that. The second type rely on travel limiters of some sort such as straps or cables or the suspension binds up sufficiently to provide a "soft" landing at the end of the stroke.

The reduction in suspension binding caused by disconnection of the sway bars and the extra force of the heavier duty springs would appear to be more than enough to cause the damage you encountered.

A heavier rebound setting on the shock valveing would help reduce the shock loading as the shock tops out, but as this may interfere with normal handling, then I think fitting limit straps is a better option. This has other advantages in ensuring you brake pipes never become your limit straps (no it doesn't work), or on independent suspensions you momentarily bind up ball joints or driveshafts which then can cause them to fail later.

regards

A

No Range Rovers had swaybars until 1989 and Discos until AFAIR 1993.
They don't seem to suffer from broken shocks any more than other brands, even with 2 inch lifts.
But some brands of shocks do fail on them notably Rancho where the top eye separates because it is made of crappy steel and not tube, just welded strap.

My guess is that the shock manufacturers design the shock for the application, and "one size fits all" shocks are more susceptable than say OEM or branded shocks such as Billies or Koni.
I have a 2 inch lift on my RRC with no swaybar on the back as well as Polyairs and have made air while towing on several occasions in my travels and never broken a shock. My billies need a rebuild now from dents.
So IMHO it is more because of poor quality albeit expensive poor quality shocks. Who could believe otherwise when sold by a company that sells springs to centre steering with no castor.
Regards Philip A

I doubt that removal of the sway bar alone would cause the sort of damage in the picture, it is more like the shocks and the springs where not matched.

If a ift is being achieved by use of springs that allow the suspension to drop further longer shocks are required.

Many shocks can be ordered as standard or in various lifted lengths.

But this is typical of people fiddling with their suspension and not knowing what they are doing.

Most leaf spring suspension are limited by the leaves, although some like the early landrovers had limiting straps under the axle.

If a vehicle is designed without a stabaliser bar....that is all fine and beaut......but if a suspension is designed with one.....you had better knwo what you are doing if you want to disconnect or remove it......mostly that is is illegal

cheers

Very good thread Robin.
Lots of good info to think about.

Its a common enough occurence when people set out to mod a vehicle. There's a lot of excitement about possible gains and just a little less worry about possible issues. My GQ comp ute had an 'a' framed rear for massive travel, and there were quite a few 'oh didn't think that would happen moments' as we went down that road.
Sites like outerlimits4x4 and pirate4x4 have dedicated 'bible' sections where people like myself have recorded tech information and links about all manner of modifications and repairs to all manner of vehicles over the last 15 odd years, so people who want to mod their rover/patrol/cruiser/hilux etc can research what they are about to do to their cars, and find out the ramifications before they find out the expensive way like we all did before knowledge was shared so easily over the internet. Old mate will now have the knowledge that what appears to be a garden variety 2" lifted adjustable shock will not also act as a limiting strap on the rear (guess) of a patrol with the sway bar disconnected. What he also needs to know is that if he puts a longer shock in, he's going to need to limit his upper travel 9(or inboard and invert the long shocks) and he's also going to need to fab up some spring retainers or limit straps to stop the springs from simply falling out when it flexes.

I cannot believe what I read; "removing the sway bar" and not appearing to compensate for it's removal. I consider that dumb.

One thing that has annoyed me since we first started "playing" around with ours cars car and in particular their suspension. And that is half baked or half done modifications that are not engineered and proven safely before installation can kill. Just because "lots do it" does not mean its the right way to go. And this thread and in particular the initial photo is evidence of my concern. Yes it costs funds to do it properly. So what! Both your life and others on the road or those filming/watching you in the bush are at stake. I am not preaching the enormous overplay on OH&S here that abounds these days. Just plain old common sense. Remember that!!

I learnt the hard way having a bad prang and damaging my Kingswood. Doug Chivas of Holden Dealer Team fame wisened me up and taught me a lot about car modification safety and project management side of it. Not the mechanicals as I am not "skilled" that way. He is the old bloke of rally fame who pushed the Holden at bathurst years ago. Good bloke and a very wise man. (RIP)

If you are going to do something don't mess around with safety and good engineering practices. If you cannot afford the full job then design it to be done in affordable and properly engineered stages. ie get the right shocks for the longer springs and fit them first. If its worth doing then its worth doing properly.

Phil