Ipad for Christmas

Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 07:17
ThreadID: 99453 Views:3991 Replies:11 FollowUps:29
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Looks like I might be getting an iPad 4 for Christmas.

I am not all that comfortable with computers and every time I try to download something I seem to make a mess of it. That being the case, is there a simple dunce's way to use the Ipad for off road navigation nationally?

I already have a Garman Nuvi with topo maps which I am not at all happy with and am looking forward to better maps in a bigger screen.

Is that possible and do I need a fifteen year old to set it up for me?
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 07:35

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 07:35
Hi Keith

Firstly you will find the iPad very easy to use. From all reports, the Hema app is widely used with the high quality series of Hema maps. As for comparing it with the Garmin and their topo maps, there is no comparison .

As for setting it up, itis as simple as following the on screen instructions and you will be up and running in minutes.


Happy playing with your new toy.



Cheers


Stephen
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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 07:46

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 07:46
Keith, if mapping will be one of your uses of the IPAD, make sure you get a 4G model. You don't need a phone service but you do need the one that has the ability to connect. The Wifi only versions do not have an inbuilt gps. You can get an add on GPS but it will cost the same as getting the internal one.

Also make sure you get the IPAD retina not the IPAD 3 which was quitely discontinued about 5 weeks ago. They are the same price but the IPAD 3 won't work on Australian 4G.

AnswerID: 500216

Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:03

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:03
Apple are very nasty with what they have done with Bluetooth on the ipads. It is a broken bluetooth stack that does not allow normal bluetooth GPS units to connect. You need to ensure you get a external GPS that is compaitable with the iPads, and as far as I know there are only 2 available on the market, ranging from about $100 to $150 AUD ( Dual XGPS150A and GNS 5870 MFI GPS) .
Alternatively a company called "bad-elf" make a GPS dongle that plugs into the port on the bottom of the tablet.
If you can jail-break your Ipad you can get a 3rd part bluetooth stack that supports standard bluetooth GPS units.

So it is best to buy the 3G/4G Ipad if you want a GPS, even though the above options will give a better GPS reception, especially when there is no mobile service available. The agps chipset in the 3G/4G ipads use the mobile service to help with getting the gps location so getting a fix is slower when there is no 3g/4g service.
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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:19

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:19
An update.. Garmin have released a product called a "Garmin GLO" it is a external GPS that will connect to ipads/iphones and Android tables. About $120 or so from Australian retailers .
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:26

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:26
Also Bad elf is the old style connector. With all IPADs now being lightening the bad elf is not a solution for new IPADS until they catch up with the connector.
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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:50

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:50
Good point about the connector. You can get adapters but I think it would make for a dodgy connector. Also given the smaller form factor of the new lightening connector I wonder if it will have the physical strength to handle dongles like the bad-elf gps with risk of breaking off ?.

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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:51

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:51
I too am in the market for an Ipad/Iphone.
As I understand the above comments - if I want to use GPS with the units, I will need phone coverage?
Otherwise with a normal GPS I am accessing the satellites wherever I go.

?

Bill
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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 09:01

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 09:01
Hi Bill, a 4G Ipad with the aGPS will work when there is no mobile network connection, but.. it will be slower to get a fix and the fix **may** not be as accurate. Also, there are reports of trouble getting fixes above 2000ft when using the iPad in light aircraft...


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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 09:09

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 09:09
You can avoid all the compatibility grief if you buy an Android device.

Samsung Galaxy 7.7 with phone connectivity is excellent. You can get larger (10 inch) if you want. They do what an iOS(Apple) device will do and do it just as well and have a similar range of apps available.

They work better on internet (they support Adobe Flash, iOS doesn't) and if you want to use one of the world's best mapping/navigator programs, Oziexplorer, you must use an Android device because Ozi is not available for iOS.

Speaking of which, my Galaxy tab is 16GB, expanded to 48. I have 32GB of maps stuffed in there for Oziexplorer and it works a treat.

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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 09:47

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 09:47
I run oziexplorer on a android tablet and i agree it is a terrific solution (64GB sd card :) ).

However, I also have a ipad3 that I use as a ebook reader and the high-res display makes it vastly better for that usage than the Android tablet I have. I am unsure if you can yet get a android tablet with the same screen resolution as the Ipad 3/4 (?). Sometimes when I am travelling with work I do not want to lug both tablets with me, especially when travelling o/s.

So.. if a person wants to use the tablet as a ebook reader and wants a tablet with the retina or high resolution display then they are a little limited to what they can get (I think), hence they may be stuck with a ipad.

(Flame suit on).. Personally I do prefer the Android ecosystem over the Apple one. I just hate companies that deliberately do things like deliberately hobble the bluetooth stack etc. But for my usage the Ipad3 screen was a perfect fit so I got one.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:00

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:00
Bill the issue is that Apple, for reasons known only to themselves, only put a GPS in the more expensive IPADs that have phone connectivity ( the Cellular versions). The Wifi only range do not have accurate location capability.

There are 2 types of maps. Things like Google maps, apple maps and a few others need phone reception to download the maps.

Then there are raster maps like Oziexplorer, Memory Maps, Mud maps and most off road maps that have pre loaded maps ( that you do at home). They do not need phone reception, but in an apple device, they do need the phone version, even if you don't have a sim inserted and no service.

Also there is a lot of confusion about A-GPS or assisted GPS.

This simply means the device can take it's position by phone signal triangulation, ip address allocated location ( low accuracy) or by GPS or both.

The main advantage of an A-GPS over a straight GPS is that it works indoors, and for some simple location apps you don't need to turn the GPS on, saving battery. An A-GPS will also speed up location in some circumstances when the devices has moved considerably ( hundreds of km) from the last known position, though in practice this is usually marginal except for initial turn on or after many months of non use.

When thre is no phone service an A-GPS will revert to normal GPS mode just like any normal Garmin, Magellan etc GPS. I understand that an IPAD's GPS reception sensitivity is ok but not great. The main issue however is that being internal, the antenna is often under a steel roof of a car and you miss several sats causing lower performance.



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Follow Up By: Peter K20 - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:09

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:09
" it will be slower to get a fix and the fix **may** not be as accurate. Also, there are reports of trouble getting fixes above 2000ft when using the iPad in light aircraft..."

Thats not true at all. The post above explains how agps assists users (not slows it down)

as for light aircraft - I fly regularly using an ipad and there are no issues with not being able to get a fix above 2000 ft. I flew 4 hours yesterday and dint loose coverage once. I think the stories you have heard relate to some larger aircraft cockpits that have some shielding in the glass or people sitting in passenger seats.

Always makes me laugh how if someone asks a question about an ios product they will always get hounded by android owners who want you to use the same as them. Why is that - I thought there ust have been a spotters fee but I cant find the link on any of my droid products
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:18

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:18
I don't know much about planes, but one common issue that affects a tablet based GPS in a car is that many window tints are now metallic and stop RF. That can block Sat signals considerably. The best place for the antenna is outside the vehicle or next best under the windscreen, not in the lap of someone looking at the IPAD ( or android etc)

That could explain why some plane users have troubles too.

That affects a hand held walkie talkie's range, and phones for the same reason.
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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:13

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:13
" it will be slower to get a fix and the fix **may** not be as accurate. Also, there are reports of trouble getting fixes above 2000ft when using the iPad in light aircraft..."

I have not used a ipad in a light aircraft cockpit, only some older gps units for navigating so my comments where based on discussions in various aviation forums. I suspect you may be correct about different shielding in different cockpit designs. Hmm Need to see if I can get it tested in a Boeing :-).

As for AGPS, I have experienced the difference in the lock time between my iphone when in cell range and outside range, so I stand by that one. The accuracy though is more around the quality of the GPS aerial in something like a cell phone with agps where the network connection helps to improve the quality of the gps fix compared say with a garmin colorado or similar or using a external GPS antenna.
So... If you are using the aGPS device somewhere with no network and good GPS reception then I would suspect no difference , but if using where there is dodgy I would expect a difference.

Sound like an interesting experiment to test if my theory is indeed correct.
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Follow Up By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:59

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:59
A good description of aGPS here:http://www.gpsreview.net/a-gps/
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 17:04

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 17:04
The ipad kills the iphone in gps performance. It must have a way bigger antenna inside as there is no comparison in my experience. A big cloud will knock an iphone out in a remote area. The ipad goes strong all day if you can keep the charge up to it. It took me a while to find a ar charger that could do the job.
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Reply By: rocco2010 - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:02

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:02
Gidday

I am not a gadget person or an apple geek but I have to say my Ipad one of the best things I have ever bought.

For convenient Internet around the house and on the road (with a SIM card) it has more than lived up to expectations, although the mobile data packs with telstra are not exactly good value. But I am able to send this post now from home even though the power is out after a storm in Perth last night. You wouldn't want to be writing the great Australian novel on the keyboard but for emails etc it is ok.

Not sure about its use as a navigator as size is an issue for mounts. I know it can be done but you may need a passenger who doesn't mind Holding the ipad. I used the much maligned apple maps in the wheatbelt a week or so ago on familiar roads and it actually found me a better route than the one usually taken but I needs to be treated with caution as documented elsewhere in the Mildura saga.

Only mistake was I got the smallest memory and it is quickly filling up with photos. They look great on the retina screen! So find the extra cash and get at least the middle size.

I am sure there are worthy rivals but I am happy with what I have.



Cheers




AnswerID: 500225

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:31

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:31
"Only mistake was I got the smallest memory and it is quickly filling up with photos. They look great on the retina screen! So find the extra cash and get at least the middle size."

You have highlighted the single biggest problem with IPADs.

If you haven't had a tablet before, you don't know how to size the memory until you get to know it, then it is too late. The upgrade path with an IPAD is ditch what you have and buy another one for $800 - 900.

If you buy an IPAD, ALWAYS get 64G.

The cost of the same upgrade in most android tablets is additional 32G of memory for android is about $25 and 1 minute to install. An additional 64G is about $60.

That, and the fact that you have to pay 30% more for the same music and movies is what bugs me about apple.

Also the usability argument has gone away. Android 4.1 etc is every bit as easy to use as an IPAD.

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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:39

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:39
Read my lips ...

"I am sure there are worthy rivals but I am happy with what I have."

Please, no more follow ups telling me that Android is better. I am sure it is good but I did my research, made my choice and paid my money ... Though I haven't tested it in a plane yet!



Cheers

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 15:28

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 15:28
I didn't say or imply you were unhappy. I said you highlighted an issue with IPADs and highlighted the contrast with Androids for others who may be considering it. It was you that raised the issue.

Sheez talk about sensitive. I hope you are happy with it.
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 14:21

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 14:21
Just a reminder for all Ipad users who require GPS for navigating please buy the 3G or 4G versions. These have the assisted GPS function built in and signal quality is fast and convenient. If you buy the Wi Fi only Ipad you do not get a GPS function and will have to source an external GPS.

AnswerID: 500232

Reply By: Member - Greg H (NT) - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 14:41

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 14:41
Keith.

Looking at the above posts, get the 15 year old!!

Cheers

Greg
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Reply By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 14:48

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 14:48
Hi Keith

I got an iPad last Christmas and have been constantly delighted and annoyed, even infuriated by it. Lots of the things you expect a computer to do, like just typing a document are a real pain on the iPad.

I did not know about wifi-only iPads not having a GPS or that Apple bluetooth is different to everyone else's. Managed to get an external GPS that talked to the iPad & works ok for $120-odd from memory.

I use MuddMaps on the iPad for navigation and whilst its elegant in the sense it has no wires everywhere, I have to say as a dedicated OziExplorer user, none of the navigation apps stack up so I think if I had my time over, I'd probably get one of the Windows compatible tablets or mini laptops like the Dell Latitude 10 or similar, that actually does what you'd be familiar with what a computer does.

You probably won't have the option of asking for something else as it is a Chrissie present after all, but don't get your hopes up about its navigational capacities.

AnswerID: 500235

Reply By: Member - Megan and Kevin D (AC - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 17:05

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 17:05
Hi Keith
I used my iPad (latest model) on a long trip this year. We also had our Garmin Nuvi with Topo maps and my original Hema.

I bought the Hema app for my iPad for about $150 dollars (despite owning the Hema GPS and numerous paper maps). It was fantastically useful - although I didn't have it running constantly. In other words, the other two GPS devices stayed on and provided a constant view of where we were but flicking on the iPad and using the Hema app - easy to do as the navigator/passenger, was very convenient. I didn't leave it switched on as I suspect the iPad battery would very quickly run down.

As others have said, you don't need internet access to use the Hema app. However, as I don't have a sim card in my iPad and wanted to use the internet, I did buy a Telstra Elite device and bought eight weeks of access to the internet/emails for the trip from Telstra. That worked fine - just needed to recharge the device whenever possible. Access to the internet is not available everywhere - it's surprising the places that do have access and those that don't. Maybe politics comes into it.

You would be justified in wondering why I bought the Hema app when I already had a Hema GPS etc etc. My only honest reason is that I was completely seduced by the idea of having the Hema maps on my iPad, but I am glad I gave in to the temptation. Being a passenger for eight weeks meant I could really make use of the app and it proved to be worth the expense.

All the best.
Megan




AnswerID: 500242

Reply By: get outmore - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 18:49

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 18:49
Best thing to do is have a quite word to them and get them to get you a galaxy 10.1 note off Kogan
Cheaper than I pad with vastly superior specs and will run off-road mapping ozii explorer
Don't become another I pad sucker only to find it can't do what you want
AnswerID: 500248

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 19:57

Wednesday, Dec 12, 2012 at 19:57
I'm not sure if that is correct. I have both Galaxy and ipad and used to like Oziexplorer on my laptop. Now I leave the Android, laptop and Ozi at home and take the ipad and Memory Map with Hema maps with me. I plan the trip by drawing or downloading gpx files of the route I want on the Memory Map computer application, upload the route and some entertainment to the ipad and off I go. I may try the Galaxy Tab again now that Memory Map is available on Android. I'm not a fan of Oziexplorer anymore, the interface is clunky compared to Memory Map in my opinion. To be fair, It took me a while to get used to Memory Map but it was the ease of use when planning trips on the computer that sold me plus the maps are very good. Each to their own I suppose.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 01:30

Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 01:30
Ok just the fact you use hema maps says it all
I have the full set but they are my most LEAST used they lack any detail and are quite hopless compared to my other maps
If your happy with them it would be no surprise you use an iPad
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 07:11

Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 07:11
Yes, I also have the 25k, 100k and 250k topo maps on the ipad as well but I only use them for day trips along fire trails close to home. You seem to have a set against the ipad.....what is the main thing about yours that you don't like? My Galaxy Tab freezes up a little more than my ipad does, the screen is duller and some operations that are made simple by Apple are overly complicated and clunky on Android. Also, I reckon that the Samsung Kies program is a piece of junk compared to iTunes, not that I'm a big Apple fan either. However, if you know nothing and want simple that works, Apple have it nailed. That's my opinion having used both....it's weird that it's mystically linked to using Hema maps as well...
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 13:44

Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 13:44
I'm unsure what you would use kies for?
I certainly don't use it. The whole idea of the android experience is there's no need for any thing like that. Movies. Songs everything are just drag and drop off the computer
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 23:08

Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 23:08
I found Kies handy for importing all my appointments, diary and contacts into the Tablet from MS Outlook.

I find Ozi good on the Tablet though am looking forward to the alpha version.

Cheers
Alan

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.



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Reply By: Member - Keith Berg - Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 20:42

Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 20:42
Thanks everyone,

So is this the collective advice?

1. Go for the top of the line iPad 4 with 64G memory, wireless and cell.
2. Buy a compatible bluetooth GPS for it.
3. Load a windows emulator.
4. Use Oziexplorer with Hema maps.
5. Find a 15 year old kid to make it all work.

Any advances on that?
Thanks again. The depth of knowledge, experience and old fashioned kindness on this forum sometimes blows me away.
Keith
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 22:48

Thursday, Dec 13, 2012 at 22:48
Keith, you forgot to say whether you are using it in a Toyota or a Nissan :-)
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Dec 14, 2012 at 03:37

Friday, Dec 14, 2012 at 03:37
your getting it arnt you
1. dont need to with samsung just buy a 64gig micro sd card\
2.dont need to with samsung it comes with GPS
3. dont need to with samsung it has ozi and ozi clone options
3. only an option with samsung
4. unneccesarry because you bought a samsung and dont have to muck around with the malware i tunes
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Dec 14, 2012 at 09:32

Friday, Dec 14, 2012 at 09:32
OK GetOutmore you have convinced me. I have just ordered a Galaxy from Kogan. Now I need to get OziExplorer and maps, right? Oh, and a power supply from 12v. Anything else??
This had better work or my neck is on the block with 'The Navigator'!!
Any more accessories on the Troopy and I will need to upgrade the springs again!

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Dec 16, 2012 at 00:32

Sunday, Dec 16, 2012 at 00:32
Tell you what I'll send you the maps
You can do that when you don't have to stuff around with I tunes
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Follow Up By: Members - Bow & Nan - Sunday, Dec 16, 2012 at 07:32

Sunday, Dec 16, 2012 at 07:32
OK GetOutmore which is the best model galaxy 10.1 note.

I will not let Apple lock me in prison.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Dec 16, 2012 at 15:32

Sunday, Dec 16, 2012 at 15:32
Well for$80 more than the base model WiFi only 16 gig apple I'd get the 3g 16 gig note 10.1 and put a decent sized sd card in
Then for off-road mapping there's androzic which uses ozii maps and waypoints and tracks but if that's too buggy for you ozii is less than $25 with free updates
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Reply By: Member - Keith Berg - Friday, Dec 14, 2012 at 20:07

Friday, Dec 14, 2012 at 20:07
The iPad 4 is actually a gift for my wife, who has been hanging out for one all year. I though we would use it for navigation on our occasional long trips as well. Bought the 64 Gb model this arvo with wireless and sim card. Lo and behold, the new model has GPS as well so there's no need for the Bluetooth thingy.
AnswerID: 500352

Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Monday, Dec 17, 2012 at 20:13

Monday, Dec 17, 2012 at 20:13
Good choice Keith. I use Mudmaps (used to be called VMS), Bit Map (with the Hema Maps and VIC and NSW 1:25,000 loaded), Google Earth, Australia and NZ navfree and OzRunways (all the WAC Charts). I bought a Nexus 7 to run OziExplorer but find I rarely use it. The Android operating system is clunky in comparison, and the Android app environment is just a schemozzle.
I'd recommend spending $150 on either MudMaps or Hema.
You'll also need a suction mounting bracket.
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Reply By: Member - Keith Berg - Tuesday, Dec 18, 2012 at 00:44

Tuesday, Dec 18, 2012 at 00:44
Thanks Bob
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