Cape Range National Park

G'day Witi Repartee


It certainly makes me scratch my aging head at times too, when it come to how people perceive the remoter parts of Australia and its not just the international visitors either.


I was wandering around the Kalbarri National Park just last September and at that time I also wondered at the antics of our home grown Aussies.


Dehydration and possible death is fairly common in the Pilbara even today, with all the training and equipment on hand in the resources industries, people still simply get it wrong and at times they die.


Only a few years back as young bloke working as a surveyors assistant ~ said he felt crook after a few hours in the field, he was told to sit in the air conditioned vehicle for a while, then after a period of time cooling off in the vehicle, he decided to walk back to their accommodation village withinin sight. He did'nt make it, he died on the walk back to camp.





Safe Travels :

G'day Mick


Wise words my friend, but very sadly people simply do not comprehend the on set of dehydration, you do not have to be trekking cross country on foot to succumb and perish through dehydration.


A relatively common task like changing a wheel on your vehicle in 40 something degrees heat can easily bring you undone, the gamble is knowing the signs of danger, as your body and physical actions are possibly already telling things are seriously wrong, make the wrong choice from this point and you die !!


Safe and peaceful Christmas Mick O


Safe Travels:

Without wishing to comment on the current sad case, I wonder whether the ghastly habit of sipping on a trendy water bottle very few minutes is a contributing factor in dehydration. The amount of water taken in cant be enough to counter dehydration in serious summer conditions, but it may lull the sucker into thinking they're OK. Just a thought.

Cheers,

Val

As long as you drink the required amount of water in a given time I don't think it matters if you just sip or drink it in one gulp.

I was taught to 'Pee clear twice a day'. If your urine is a yellow colour you are or getting dehydrated.

A lot of people simply do not expect to pee anywhere near enough.

If you arent peeing arround every two hours you simply are not drinking enough.

There are two issues.....risk of immediate dehydration and its consequences....and long term kidney health.

AND while some sugar and a very small amount of salt will help water absorbtion, the majority of the intake should be clean clear water.

Drinking large amounts of soft drink, sports drinks, coffee, tea and alcaholic bevarages is not advisable both from the immediate hydration and the long term health point of view.

cheers

The lack-of-pee warning is a good indicator. I will use that two hour warning rule in future.

On long walks, sipping water as opposed to drinking large quantities, is, from my experience and on reading other reports, easier for the body to absorb. The key is sipping enough, as mentioned.

I also believe in replacing minerals lost with electrolytes.

Yesterday I hiked up Table Mountain with two litres of water only. It was a hot day, but not as hot as I have walked in the past. I have trained well this past month - about 60 kms a week including mountain work. I calculated that the walk should take two hours up and down the steep, almost vertical 500m hike and there were streams with water if I need to top up. I did not think electrolytes would be necessary for such a short although strenuous walk. I sipped water regularly. Felt a little faint on the way up, rested a few times for a minute, but on the whole, brushed it off. Walking down I was fine and at the bottom I downed the last cup of my water. I felt saturated.

The drive home was an ordeal. I was overcome with acute nausea twice and had to stop the car to lie down. The urge to throw up was close to over powering. Made it home and entered the house white as a sheet. Family brought me electrolytes and very slowly I sipped two cups of the solution over half an hour. Within an hour I was back to normal.

Another account:

Overland driver friend of mine recounted a time when he had to do repairs to the truck in extreme heat. All day he made sure he drank plenty of water, very aware of the dangers of dehydration. By the end of the day he was totally useless, physically exhausted and mentally underperforming. A litre of rehydration solution worked like magic. The change was that incredible.

Our bodies need water, but they also need the minerals replaced that are lost through elimination. This becomes obvious when the body is stressed through heat and exertion. Not so obvious sitting at a desk all day consuming coffee which is a diuretic. Or driving a vehicle without rehydrating frequently. In this case, the symptoms of dehydration are slow and gradual and can therefore go unnoticed. But they still have an effect physically and mentally on our ability to perform optimally.

Our body is our first vehicle. If we want to keep it going we have to look after it. Give it water, fuel and forethought. Pay attention to its needs. Plan ahead.

It is really sad to loose a young life in such a way. And yet, so easy. A reminder to us all.

Sipping is a definite no-no, in survival situations anyway.

One of those simple rules that has been in-grounded into me since my early twenties when I first started to get out and about, can't remember where I first heard it - I will stick to that rule.

Cheers
Alan

Don't get over excited about "electrolites" that is a relativly long term issue.

A little ordinary sugar and a very little ordinary salt will improve the transfer of water from the stomach to the blood stream.


This simple solution is saving lives all over the world where dehydration from diarrhea is a common cause of death.
Plain water is simply not absorbed fast enough to do any good.

You may notice that inspite of downing quite a lot of good healty water, that your thirst is not quenched and you have the sloshy bloated feeling.

I usually carry a bottle or two of weak cordial among my bottles of water, and take a few good solid gulps of that then follow with water.

check out this
http://rehydrate.org/solutions/homemade.htm

The proportions are very close to the teaspoon of sugar and pinch of salt in a glass of water many old timers swear by.

In the 40s & 50s when my father was at sea and working in the middle ease they freely supplied barly water, but restricted plain water, because me would regularly make themselves ill on the plain water.



cheers

Full on drinking may be a better thing for a healty person....but drinking too much too fast can result in vomiting or nausia.

The body despirate for fluid will divert blood flow to the stomach at the expense of other bodily functions....result feeling crook.

Sound familiar Gaynor.

But for a criticaly dehydrated person sipping is definietly the recomendation.

If is very easy to cause a person nausious from dehydraton to vomit by allowing too much fluid to be consumed and that is NBG at all.

It has long been recomended to feed a ravenously thirsty and dehydrated person fluid by allowing them to suck the fluid from a dipped cloth to restrict consumption.

cheers

Hi Alan

You state that sipping is a definite no-no but give no reason or source to support this view. Believing something we once heard somewhere, without questioning or revising that belief is certainly less troublesome, but does that make it true?

In one of my previous sports, kickboxing, I learned from experience that I could not gulp water down in training or fighting if I wanted to be standing at the end of the session or round. Same when I ran half marathons. But maybe that is just how my body works under stressful situations and yours works differently.

I am learning that my body can take a huge amount of abuse under normal every day conditions, like the ease of gulping down water on a hot day without having exercised heavily. But as soon as I lift the bar and push hard, adding a strenuous exercise, the effects are felt in ways that can be dangerous.

Part of my current reading material is Ffyona Campbell's book - The Whole Story, A Walk Around the World. This is a woman who walked across Australia from Sydney to Perth in 95 days, beating the mens record - and she did it in summer. On her travels, Ffyona spoke of sipping water regularly as opposed to gulping it down. Most articles I read favour this approach.

Here is quote of a time in Africa when she challenged her drivers to walk 10 miles with her in an effort to teach them the value of their jobs and the effects of heat exhaustion and water on a walker:

'I simply asked them to walk a ten mile stretch. The first to have a go was Tom. He started out with great strides, bouncing up and down, leaving me behind as though he felt he could carry on like this for hours and what was the big deal. I broke into it slowly, biding my time, walking efficiently and drinking little. After about half an hour he was red faced and sweaty, gulping down his water. But then, striking out again, he began to slow and overheat at the same time. I told him if he wanted more water, he'd have to hurry up now. He got irritable and then fell into silence, and when I heard him pant, I showed him how to climb into a bush to find shade, then, taking a little water in the palm of my hand, I rubbed his skin with it, pushing him around to catch any breeze to cool him. Heat exhaustion comes quickly, builds up with thumping ears and dizziness. Out on the track, two hours from your vehicle, you'd be dead before then if you didn't learn how to control it.'

All too familiar Bantam :-)

Your advise is solid. When I worked as a volunteer in Goma, Zaire in 1994 rehydrating Rwandan refugees I learned some harsh lessons. We were using ORS and it had to be administered slowly by sips in order to not overload their emaciated, dehydrated systems. It was a struggle in the first few weeks to even get them to muster up enough strength to swallow. One day I was working alongside Care Australia. There was this one young teenage boy who looked close to death. Skin and bones. Wide, wild eyes. He still haunts me. I tried to get him to swallow fluids. He resisted. I insisted. I was concerned for him. He gave in and drank. He vomited up blood his entire body wracked. I was devastated. His veins were so flat the doctors could not put him on intravenous through his arms. They had to go in through his neck. And that was a struggle.

Another baby was put on a drip that flowed too fast. Half the baby blew up like a blow up doll. Too much, to fast.

Hi Gaynor,

I know I did not give any sources, as I can't remember where I was told it. Perhaps I should have been more careful with my words and instead of saying a definite no-no, said "I would not do it under any circumstances if I was in a survival situation".

Survival situations are few and far between (I haven't been in one for about 18 years now), not forgetting the poor young deceased fellow who probably didn't even realise his was in that predicament. I would say that you on your big walks would not be in that situation as you would have things under control with all the winds of good fortune pointing your way.

Still I give you the point about not having sources so I went to my library, and I actually thought I had more books about surviving the bush than I do funnily enough - I think I may have given a few away over the years.

From Australian Bush Survival Skills and Search Rescue Manual by S. Radusin (rebadged later as Australian Bush Survival Skills and Search Rescue Manual by Newmont Australia):
In the chapter on water conservation which goes into the important aspect of dehydration and the reduction of it.
Some methods of reducing sweat as follows:
a, b, c, d, e
f:
When drinking to reduce perspiration, drink enough to satisfy your needs. Sipping water does not raise the water level of the body to its proper level, and you gradually dehydrate. It is possible to die of thirst with a half-full water bottle.

I'm not saying that one extract is the "be all and end all" of the whole discussion and I agree with your point that everyone is different, however unless I'm provided with other sources to tell me why I should sip and not drink, I think you know what I will do.

Happy Christmas too!!

Cheers
Alan

Fare enough. I think the definition on 'sipping' might need to be reviewed. It may not be the same understanding for everyone.

It is said that if you are thirsty you are already dehydrated. In 'sipping' I do so regularly throughout the activity without waiting to be thirsty.

P.S. Moderators
I have received my second warning. I checked the rules the first time and thought it related to my linking to a bushwalk forum. But here it is again. I am not sure what I am writing on this topic that is prompting this message. Can you explain so I don't do it again?

I have seen all sorts of "manuals" and the odd exam that do not reflect best practice, correct information or current understanding.


We also have not seen the quotes in context.

there is a very big difference to managing drinking for long term survival and managing drinking for short term prevention of heat stroke, for short term rehydration and for maintaining the ability to work in heat.

In long term survival where there is a reduced supply of water, we want to put and keep the body in a partial state of crisis, where urination and perpiration are considerably reduced...the body will be dehydrated......this is a very dangerous situation unless exposure to heat and exertion is heavily managed.

Continual sipping will indicate to the body that water is available and it will tend to come out of the water conserving state of crisis.

note that the quote says....drinking to manage perspiration.

If we are to continue to work or exert in heat we need to promote perspiration to cool the body.

To maintain vigorous body function in heat small amounts of water ( maybe not sips) need to be taken regularly to keep ahead of dehydration.

cheers

Hi

This may be of interest.

Following a recent incident when a young bloke was lost in the bush
well known bush survival expert Bob Copper stated in the West Australian dated Tuesday, January 1st, 2013.

"One of the biggest misconceptions, which had cost lives, was that water should be rationed. Other organs "stole" sipped water before it could make it to the brain, which needed it most.

Sipping does not prevent dehydration. So, if your down to your last two litres of water, drink it in eight cupfuls, instead of 200 sips."

Hi Rowdy,

I did read that and thought of this forum thread.

Thanks for putting it up. I didn't dare too lol...

Cheers
Alan

Chicken :-) Debates like this are always interesting. Makes a person think and review. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to learn from this Australian legend.

Again we are talking about different situations.....and this "sipping" seems to be a sticking point and ill defined.

Like so many arguments they decend into esoteric and irrelivent small technicalities.

The single most important concept to carry away is CARRY SUFFICIENT WATER.

And in the Australian summer heat and where exertion is involved, SUFFICIENT is a lot more than some people can possibly imagine.

In the case of the original post and the other recent case of death.....sipping ain't gona do it.

To survive in the short term and continue to exert..and that means walk, significant amounts of water need to be drunk and in the vacinity of 1 litre per person per hour.....of course this will vary considerably depending on conditions.

There are real conditions in summer that the human will strugle to consume and absorb sufficient water to keep pace with what is lost thru sweat and respiration.

If a person continues to exert and fails to drink and cool themselves they will die or at least get into serious trouble in the short term....like within an hour.


Above all we need to take the heat and the need to drink sugnificant volumes of water in the short term very serioulsy.


Best of course is to avoid exertion in extreem heat.

cheers