Free or near free camping

Hi Beaul
Farmers can let anyone stay any time on their land (even lease-hold land) and you are free to contribute a "consideration" for power & water etc.

If you call it "paying the farmer (a hire rate)" , it might smack of a commercial undertaking on his behalf, compromising his own Public Liability insurance as well as inviting Council to stick their bibs in.

But if you give him such a "consideration" (ie: a gift) then:
- the Council
- the tax-man; and
- the Insurer
don't need to know and have no business asking.

Dr Hook

G'day Beaul

I'm assuming that you need power and water for your set-up, whenever you stop, otherwise if you can fit National Parks into your itinerary, then that is an option.

I've never looked seriously at farm-sitting farm opportunities, but if there is a data base with a list of farms that are looking for sitters (I'm sure there is such a list and I could chase up a contact if you wish), then why not contact them and see if you could farm-sit even while the farmer and family are at home.

I appreciate what you are saying about expensive caravan parks, but my experience, on balance, is that for $40 pn you will get adequate facilities. That doesn't mean everyone can afford that. I'd also observe that many caravan parks are small businesses doing it tough, and not high profit enterprises. Possibly the same councils to which you refer are burying them in rules and regulations that also impact on their own costs and charges.

Cheers
John

Cheers
John

I know where you are coming from I asked a local councillor why they had this attitude to free camps Her reply stunned me "we don't need that type of free loader they just want everything for nothing" I took this up with the CEO and the Mayor and we still have free camps at this stage
One of the clubs Caravan or Motor Home can't recall tried to start a register of people who would let other members stay on their property but not sure if it got off the ground
When we travel we free camp if we can, any town that does ban free camping we try to avoid If I stop for any reason fuel etc.. I tell as many businesses as I can why I won't be staying and spending more money after all they are the ones missing out maybe they will pressure the Council
I usually check with the visitors center for free camps its sometime amazing what they come up with when you say "o' sorry then we won't be staying if we cant free camp or at least pay a moderate fee"
I can understand why its getting harder when you see what some of the grubs leave in free camps if we all did the right thing we may not have the issue at all
Well that's my whinge for the day I feel better now
Cheers Kev

Many Councils and communities, particularly in rural areas who have or are doing it tough welcome visitors and often offer low cost camping. We will go out of our way to support these places. I encourage everyone to do likewise.

There are still lot of opportunities for free and low cost - Camps Australia Wide has many, and we usually find somewhere quiet to stop without resorting to the book.

Staying on a farm if as a worker has longer time frames than guests sleeping in a caravan.Farm sitting is another good option, and farmers often go on summer holidays after harvest (WA time frames) and having someone there to feed the dogs, chooks, water garden, check stock watering points, feeding stock all need to be done. Depending on what is on the farm this may be minimal. Fruit picking is another high labour needs time in orcharding areas.

Officially money or in kind payments cannot take place. Once this occurs there are the taxation implications (including remitting GST), breaching Shire regulations of running a business on a premises when not authorised and meeting caravan parking requirements, liability insurance etc.

Motherhen

When we stay at a free camp or a less expensive Council owned caravan park we write a letter to the Mayor (at the end of our stay) thanking the Council and telling them how much we spent in their Council area and how long we stayed.
We are presently staying at the Berrigan Lions Club Caravan Park @ $20 per night pay for 6 nights stay for 7 nights.
This park like a lot of others has recently put their price up from $15 per night. I wonder if there was any collusion with so many parks & show grounds putting their prices up around the same time?
I have noticed that caravan park operators would rather complain about business they are losing than work on ways of attracting more overnighters/customers. The hospitality industry addressed the problem of empty beds, years ago: They offered stand by rates, free breakfasts, off peak rates during the week etc.., etc..
Some caravan park operators would rather have empty sites than offer deals/discounts. I think they go to a special training school to learn how to whinge and be sour.
Have a safe and happy Australia Day
PeterM

There are lots of little towns doing it tough, many without either a caravan park or showground. Many provide 24 or 36 hr overnight parking in attempt to get travellers to spend in the town which usually works well.
Some towns on the other hand, usually the ones with a van park or "resort" have a blanket ban on overnight stopping even though there are suitable sites available in town as the van park has got the ear of the council and pulled a few strings to get overnight stopping banned. Like others we just motor on through without spending anything.
The other thing that makes me laugh is the van parks that have converted most of their sites to cabins and onsite vans are taking custom from the motels and hotels, so much for fair play!!!
As has been said NP's are a ripoff, top dollar and zero facilities or just a dirty pit loo.
State forests are our usual favourite as they don't mind overnight stops, you can park or camp in most free of charge and those that do charge it is usually in line with the facilities offered.
Like others we avoid van parks 99% of the time as they want to charge for facilities we do not need like power, playgrounds, pools, campers kitchens, rec rooms and the like. We might at the most stay in one once every once in a while, usually in larger centres and cities where there is no easy alternative.

I don't quite get the sense in a lot of this. Are we expecting free or near free camping areas that are fully serviced by someone? Good luck with that. For a sense of perspective, everyone should put themselves in the position of cleaning a public area including toilet for a few months. It is an awesome experience that is hard to put into words. The simple reason why you can't stop "anywhere" is that too many people (including the greys) are complete pigs. When I say too many I can assure you that it doesn't take many to make an impression in that area. Saying it is the fault of the council being lazy is just ridiculous. It's like standing under a waterfall of crap.

I am on a pension and I cannot afford to stay in Caravan parks. I have been travelling around for quite some time and I have never yet seen a mess left behind by free campers. You guys are exaggerating.
Councils in rural areas encourage free camping because it brings money into the community. Why is it always the coastal councils who make life difficult for us caravanners and ban free camping

Hi Beaul,

I think collectively people should boycott the areas that dont allow free camping,or another way to look at it visit the areas that do allow free camping that way the good councils get the benefit and the money hungry tell you how to live brigade councils dont reap the benefits and can go bleep themselves.

Cheers Wilko

hi beaul and all
free camping on demand no doubt has become a very big problem with more and more people expecting it in all towns
but although it might be classed as free to the travellers that want/need it
in the long run someone has to pay for it whether it be direct or on a round-a-bout way either by local councils absorbing the costs in rating /govtment bodies or what-ever
nothing is for nothing but it seems grey nomads/international and many other categories expect it
as long as they can keep travelling with-out digging in their own pockets for overnight stays and free water and waste disposal they will be happy
there is enough evidence right around aus of people leaving their rubbish at road side truckbay bins in volume and most other freebush camp sights
and yet they all claim to never to have left any rubbish and always cleaned up before leaving camp sites
if this was the case we would have zero/zilch problems and no rubbish at all sites
no one is guilty of this
so does it just fall from the sky at night maybe its space junk raining down while we have our eyes closed????????????
i see on the roadmag group have just published a free camp sites book for 2013-14
some of it will be relevant but i fail to see how some one sitting behind a computor can acruately forcast by gazing into their cystal ball which sites are still going to be free in 2014 and even this year
when these so called free sites are slowly and surely deminishing in number due to the way travellers are abusing their privileges
im not suggesting to stay at home but if you leave home to travell this great land
please expect to put your hand in your own pockets in order to do so
cheers

I've been "on the road" off and on for the last 12 years and stayed in many free or cheap camp sites a lot of which aren't in any book you can buy. For this reason alone I'm not going to name them here as I enjoy the tranquility of them. One of the best I've stayed in charges $10.00 a week per campsite, has flushing toilets and hot showers, drinking water on tap and the rubbish bins are emptied regularly. All this on a river within walking distance of the town's main street, - you do have to bring your own firewood. I've also stopped at places that just want a donation to the RFDS or similar for your stay. It just depends on what standard you consider to be acceptable to you - I don't need the Hilton to be comfortable. I've also been appalled at the rubbish and "little white flags" left everywhere in the bush, to the people who leave this stuff behind I say "Go Home, we don't want you" Australia's not totally stuffed yet, but greed, power & buck passing are a formidable force. - The wheel keeps turning, we must remain vigilant, resist the "not my problem" syndrome.

I am not sure how but this thread has gone so far off track.
I asked why can't caravaners stay at private farms and pay a small fee. Why should the authorities want to stop it, what harm is it doing to them. Local Councils are supposed to represent their local community, not play favourites with the local caravan park who can then charge excessive rates for facilities that most caravaners do not want or need.
I am disappointed with the number of replies who quote rubbish and ferals as justification for banning free camping. It is simply not true in the majority of cases.
What I also understand is some of you think that we all should just pay and shut up. As per the national parks program, what a disgrace that is. Who owns those Parks? They should be managed in a way that they are accessible to all Australians, we should not be dictated to by a government employees who only appear to look after themselves. It is time the public and 350,000 caravaners had a say in how our Country is managed.

Perhaps like so many "criminal activities" the traveling community and those happy to accomadate them need to have some some " secret words", like "Pumpkin"

We're just passing thru, wondering if anybody has some "Fresh Pumpkins" nearby ( "fresh pumpkins" means accomadation with shower & toilet).

Farmer Jim sells "Pumpkins"......follow the road out of town and you'll se a sign "Fresh Pumpkins"

The railway hotel sells "Fresh Pumpkin Soup"....( this means they have showers, toilets and provide meals"

Then there is the matter of consideration, the pumpkin or the soup might cost $10....but its real good soup!

Or...farmer Jones likes pumpkins, but he has been very busy with the harvest and cant get to town.....they tell me he's run out of Jack Daniels, I have a a large bottle under the counter for him, but he cant get in for a week, would you like to take it out to him.

This means you can stay for a week for a large bottle of Jack but there are no facilities.

worth a thaught

the various places could be rated like the start ratings by the number of Pumpkins.

cheers

There is a fundamental management issue regarding Bins.

A rubbish bin is utterly pointless unless it is emptied sufficiently regularly......if it is overflowing, it is obviously not serviced often enough.

Yes there is an issue arround people dumping large amounts of rubbish in and arround small bins.....

this is a fundamental public hygeen issue

People want to dispose of their rubbish in a bin.
People find a bin full or empty and put their rubbish there.

Realy that have discharged their obligation..at least in their minds.

Serioulsy where else are they going to put it.

Now think about this.

Are they going to take a long drive out of town to a dump...where in this day and age they are most likely to be charged a fee.......where is this dump.....some small towns no longer have a dump....the greenies tell us that land fill is a terible thing.....many small towns burn diesel to haul their rubbish 100s of Km to a "waste transer station" in another town

Are they going to put it in the bin at the next caravan park they stop at...so then the CVP operator pays to dispose of rubbish that realy is not his responsibility.

All these areas where travelers go, have some sort of tourist economy.

People can winge and while about "free loaders" and such like...... all the rubbish had to be baught and paid for somewhere, so tax has been paid on that rubbish already, both in GST and in business fees, licences and rates paid by those businesses who profited from the sale.

The price to dispose of the rubbish has been paid somewhere and unless we burn it.... in the camp fires we are less and less able to have...... it has to go into some bin somewhere.

SO the councils have to get back to the single fundamental BIN issue...if you do not intend to adequately service a bin...don't provide one.

All up and down the country we see overflowing bins......and this is not a recent thing....ya pass the same bins and locations over and over and they are always overflowing.

there is one single failure here, the provision of a bin either of inadequate size or that it is not serviced nearly enough.

One way or another the fee to dispose of the rubbish has already been paid...the councils and other bodies neet to step up to one of their findamental obligations and collect the rubbish from the bins they are respnsible for.

Either that or do not provide he bins.

cheers

It would seem the problem IS with the local councils.
At Sharps park at Canungra (which used to be free) over the Christmas -New Year period they doubled the fees. There were up to 300 people staying there with 2 toilets for men, one on each side of the creek, no showers and the bins were overflowing.
If any private enterprise company were to do that, they would be fined heavily, why can the Local Councils continue to get away with that.
Greedy yes, because they have and can enforce a monolopy. And if we don't object, it will only get worse .
Don't give me the feral thing, it is not true, this park was managed and for all you do gooders who want everyone to stay at overpriced (protected), caravan parks this system is corrupt and needs to be addressed, otherwise we are just another third world country.

Let's face it - we will never alter the mindset of the "grubs" who litter and abuse freely provided privileges. How do you change the in-bred habits of generations of anti-social parasites, who know no better? You know the type, they, who steal the roll of toilet paper, along with the breaking into a padlocked meter box, snapping off council parks water taps handles, filling caravan water tanks from limited drinking only water supplied facilities, etc.

So, we were originally asked about the issue of wanting to free camp on someone's property. That is something that only the "requesting camper" can answer by his/her own enquiries/negotiations, directly to the farmer or whoever. I can't see any organization being set up for this facility, because it would need commercial interests to start it, and I imagine that the free campers who want all the benefits, wouldn't want to pay for it anyway.

The mindsets of a lot of recreational vehicle travellers, are directed to wanting all of the benefits, ie, security, toilet facilities, close to a town, rubbish bins, and space to stretch out, a fire perhaps. In short, a piece of paradise, and when it is not handed to them on a plate, or it has also been discovered by the hordes of free loaders, they get p...ed off, and cannot understand why. The worst proponents of this unattainable lifestyle is the industry itself, and the caravanning publications, urging "free camping" All I can hope, is that I don't have to travel to the same places. Give me the desert anytime.

A lot of you guys are missing the point.
Caravan parks are not what most of us want.
We want a bit of privacy, (not jammed in next to another caravan) to we able to light a small fire, and bring our pets, and not be charged for swimming pools, jumping castles, motel rooms etc.
Why should Local councils be able to control where we park overnight and restrict farmers from suppling a service that the caravanning public require. Without forcing us to do what their caravan park mates want.
In Britain they have B& B's why can't we have a similiar but different system here in Australia

what took you so long

You are kidding me right............................

Whinging about paying for parks to be maintained, whinging about paying for a caravan park to stay in business and keep it's abolution blocks clean, whinging about paying to get onto a "house/farm sitting website............

OMG, if I end up like you in my future years, put me out of our misery.....

I have had the misfortune whilst touring this great land (and have no issues paying my way) to be abused, that right a fair dinkum abuse session, whereby I had kindly mentioned to this feral OLD nomad (I'm 49 btw) that dumping his chemical toilet waste in the parking bay we both had stopped for lunch at, wasn't the done thing...........

If you want to spoil an overnight stop (yes that is what they are designed for!) and FREE camp there for weeks on end, yes that is so wrong and very "unaustralian". These spots are designed, maintained and kept at council rate payer's expense and you now sir, have the gall to demand that you have the god given right to exploit these rules for your own advantage.
If you sir, are unable to afford travelling, may i suggest finding a suitable retirement home and leaving the roads free for people who are willing to pay their way, support rural communities and enjoy the outback whilst we can and before fools like your good self spoil it!!!!!!

To you Alan,
my reply to another thread on this forum about "why can't we camp anywhere in Australia"
I lived in the USA for ten years and other than the fact that you have too many guns, I found overall your system is better thanAustralia. We have evolved as an English /Irish society where the english owned the property and made the rules and the Irish did all the work. That has changed now but the system remains, a socialist society.
Too many Australians accept "' big brother knows best" where as in America people fight for their freedom.
We have a situation at the moment that a lot of local councils are banning " free camping" and forcing travellers to stay at overpriced caravan spots (corruption?, probably ) Using the hygiene,waste problem as a red herring. however Australians are so complacent they just grin and bare it and pay.

We have a situation in this country where governments are systematicaly abdicating their responsibilities to provide the basic services we pay our taxes for.

They no longer understand that it is their fundamental responsibility to provide public services at cost to the public, paid for by their taxes or for "at cost fees"...Or on some cases subsidised by other lucritave tax incomes like mining roylaties or taxes on big business.

Instead they believe these services should be profitable, or even better not provide these services at all and get the public sector to provide them on a fee for service basis.......at an inflated cost..witness what has happend to power and water of late.

Then we have the public sector who never content with their profits, strive to increase their per unit charges or the fees from each customer by upselling their service.

Combine this with ever " improving standards" required of bisiness owners and the accompanying fees, we find prices for all sorts of stuff skyrocketing.

This is right across the board..........many years ago, Johhny Howard said "We have made the decision that, Australia will be a high wage economy"......this was not a commonly quoted statement and even less understood....it then follows that Australia will be a high priced economy.

Thus we have neglected national parks, with ever increasing access and camping fees and commercial caravan parks with ever increasing fees for facilities that many simply do not use.

Less and less are the poor or the budjet concious catered for, welfare, services and facilities for pensioners and the unemployed have been reduced to a bare minumum for survival....ya cant make money out of the poor.

And things like camping holidays are one of those things that the attitude is ..they can damn well pay for it....and there are plenty who can.

There was a time when you could not earn much, not spend much and do OK.....Unfortunately it no longer pays to be poor in this country.

So if you want to do well on a low income...and that includes traveling/camping you have to get very smart and not miss a trick.
Remember the well off types that can afford to pay the high fees, don't want to pay them either......they did not get all their money by being stupid or wasting money.

So if you are on a budjet you have them to compete with too.

So...if you want to do well on little money you have to get up before them and get smarter than them.......or similpy sell the camper and apply for public housing.

Fortunately there are quite a few "Private" camping grounds arround, with basic facilities ..like the 4wd parks....but many of them struggle to satisfy burocracy to stay in business.

Don't thnk that this ever incresing price for a suposedly ever increasing service is going to change any time soon.

And don't thing that wingieng will do much good either..

Sorry.......All you can do is get up early and get it where ya can.

Those free (as in free beer) road side camps do still exist, but knowing where they are is another thing all together.

After all if you are poor and camping for free...you must be some sort of vagrant.
Be thankfull that they dn't have you before the beak and send you to the work house.


cheers

Thank you Bantum I agree with your point of view.
I apologise to all those who I appear to have upset.
I believe I have used the word "Free" that some of you have taken out of context, In future I will use "Independant camping"
I don't want anyone else picking up my rubbish, I am quite capable of looking after myself. I don't need power, I have solar and a generator
What I object to, is being TOLD by local authorities that I can't independant camp.
I am not looking for a free ride.
Please before you reply, please read my previous posts on this thread, and don't jump to conclusions as so many of you have done.
Many caravanners spend thousands of dollars outfitting their vans so they can be "Independant" They want to travel our great country, and have a small fire, pets and a bit of space. Why is that being denied to them by some local authorities

Hi beaul,

I’m guessing that before retirement, you were employed & expected a reasonable wage?

I run a small business & I know that the people I employ expect & deserve to get paid a reasonable wage for their efforts!

With wages + super + workcover it costs a minimum of $45K per person per year to employ someone.

On top of that, in my small business, I have over $400 per week of residual costs such as advertising, insurance, fuel & equipment maintenance. I do not have the extra expenses that a CP has, such as electricity charges, water rates, grounds maintenance etc. So their bills will be MUCH higher than mine.

Plus, I had to invest over $50K in plant & equipment before I set up & mine is a very small business!

All of my costs are tax deductable, but I still have to generate income equal to the value of my expenses to even break even on those tax deductions & I still had to spend the money to start with, with no guarantee of any return whatsoever.

A CP involves a massive capital outlay to set the business up, or to buy one already running. This capital is not tax deductable until the business is sold or winds up. So CP operators have HUGE amounts of money tied up in their businesses!

Surely, running a CP is a business venture? The operators are taking all the risk, surely they deserve to eat & pay their bills at the end of the week?

Some people will never get it! Example: Part of what I do involves removing waste to the dump. Occasionally I still get people who think I should remove it for the amount it costs me to get into the dump (using MY Ute & MY trailer). The rubbish doesn’t drive itself to the dump & unload itself. Similarly, I have no doubt that CP operators spend a lot of time & money getting the park ready for use & cleaning up after we leave.

Ironically, I only ever find this attitude among older men! ;)

If I am right in what I am reading, then you are suggesting that farmers be allowed to take campers in cheaply? Do you think that CP owners are making a motza and the farmers can provide the service at a lower rate because they are providing less facilities? With no offence meant, I think you are dreaming. I think all small business is struggling with overheads and believe CP's are not immune. If word got out that you could stay at a particular farm very cheaply, I reckon the farmer would have the irrits in no time flat, his farm would be trashed and his attention distracted from his core business. Insurance would be a nightmare. That's my opinion :-)

As for bins being filled in one go by one group of people, that happens all the time. All there has to be is a fivesy's with 4-5 people and a barbie plus drinks and a bin will be full. I've seen that a lot. Bins out in the sticks can't be emptied that often, I would suggest once a week? When the bin is full, people put the rubbish around it instead of finding another bin. It's awesome. Councils have a budget and that's life, no use blaming them.

One other point, councils run on rates. Only a very small proportion of funds (typically 7-8%) are from higher government grants and usually for a specific purpose, certainly not garbage collection. So it's not your taxes that are paying for the garbage collection and toilet cleaning at free camps, it's the local rate payers. Kind of ironic that the CP owner could be helping finance the free alternative?