Speed Kills, Why do you waste your lives, some of you?

Hi, Palm Creek has no water in it just mud at the second crossing to the right of the first heading Nth.
The girl at Bramwell Junction told us , she told us the figures not the circumstances.
She said that if you can get across that you'll be O.K with the rest of the Southern section.
This was true. However, the first crossing at Palm Creek puts your vehicle at such a contorted angle that I'd say it would twist everything & put a hell of a strain on the chasi.
When we got to Gunshot, there were people there who said that you could avoid Palm Creek altogether & still do the rest.
Apparently the people at the station told them & we passed the message on to Bramwell Junction where the Girl was.
At Palm Creek we took the steep, muddy track to the right when another car came along so we at least had help if we needed it.
I had only battery last night & at moment I have poor signal.
Take care, safe travels. Ma.

Sorry Andrew, up to the top headlights in the middle section & it is best as you get a lean up if you go round the side. You need a snorkel or put a bra on the front.
High breathers.. a good idea.
Take care. Safe Travels Ma.

I Have to disagree. The little old lady around the corner is a very bad driver but has never killed anyone.

Speed doesn't kill.

It's the sudden stop that does it.
Cheers Dave

Apparently the little old lady died Skulldog.

Recent research now shows that 1 in 6 of them can no longer afford their medicine.

And the government has taken 1 billion dollars off them in near the speed limit fines.

Logical Conclusion - Speed Cameras Kill.

Someone doing 40 in a 50 zone is just as big an issue as someone doing 60 in a 50 zone..... obviously they have very little respect for other road users.

Roads are designed for vehicle and footpaths are designed for pedestrians....... vehicles should not drive on footpaths and pedestrians should not walk on roads.

If a vehicle drives on the footpath and hits someone , the vehicle driver is to blame..... if a pedestrian walks onto the road and gets hit by a vehicle, the vehicles drive is to blame...... when does the pedestrian get blamed for their mistake.

For some reason a vehicle travelling at 60kph hits something they are charged with not being able to control a vehicle and a range of other officers...... but if a pedestrian can't control their own movement walking a 2kph, how can we expect someone doing 30x that to control theirs!

Sorry olcoolone, but could you take me through that a bit more in depth.
Unless I am missing your point completely I fail to see how 10 kph under the posted speed limit of 50 kph could constitute disrespect. The last time I looked a speed limit (as opposed to speed target) of 50 kph applied in towns not on the open road unless road works were in progress. Are you honestly going to try and justify possibly running a pedestrian down with your argument. Sure pedestrians as well as drivers need to use a fair bit of spacial awareness but if dropping a little more speed in a town saves someone getting badly hurt or killed I will be glad to go a bit slower through towns.

Cheers
Pop

The problem is relative speed.

maybe not so much of a problem round town and at low speeds.

But as the speed increases, slow vehicles can be a very dangerous thing that is why slow moving vehicle types are banned from the freeways in the city.

so some one buttons off to 20Kmh under the speed limit comming around that corner commin into town..that bloke behind who buttons off maybe a little late but still to the legal limit is closing on the first guy at 20kmh.

on a straight road no problem......but comming around a blind corner...plenty of our towns have blind corners commin into towns..

Farmer john's ute is very likley to get a landcruser and viscount supository.

Farmer types should know that it is especially bad luck to drive a slow vehicle loaded with chickens or watermelons.......they always end up getting wiped out in highway movies.

Most in town speed limts these days are adequately slow any way.

no excuse to be a meat head though.

I fully support coppers running speed traps comming into town.

There was a particularly stroppy sargent at Aratula back in the 70's and he loved his BarBQ set....to this day

"Everbody knows you don't speed thru Aratula"

cheers

Yes, One was a motor bike.
This little old lady doesn't drive .
Our locals are the worst, including the school bus driver!
Take care, safe travels Ma.

5th September 2013 at 18:38PM Thread 104179:

"When I drive I don't show respect for other road users"

And the word for today is "contradiction"

Got to agree with you there olcoolone. Nothing annoys me more than the cops constantly blaming "speed" without saying what the speed was that caused the accident. Anything moving is speeding but at what level is it dangerous?
Nothing our governments like more than all that cash rolling in from low level "speeding" offences and being able to blame the motorist for bringing it on themselves.
Personally I rather a driver was concentrating on their actual driving than staring at the speedo in case they exceed the limit by the merest fraction.
Narrows Bridge in WA is a classic example of the cops racking it in by clocking motorists doing "from 1kph and upwards over the limit"......but rarely truly excessive speed for which I agree the motorist then deserves a ticket.
As it's a highly dangerous junction, it's better to be watching the antics of the local lunatics than peering at the speedo.
AlanH.

Unfortunately the government know too well how to condition peoples minds and change their way of thought, many organisations have played around with mind conditioning and our government is no different.

How many times have you heard on the radio "it's wet outside so be carefull drive and remember the roads are slippery" so those who know no better drive slower and with less confidence thinking they may have an accident; but the don't relise they are causing accidents.

They are constantly saying we are no good at judgement and we have constantly lowering abilities....... why have we got to this point, because we keep on getting knocked down on our own skill levels by bureaucrats saying we are no good at what we do.

WHY, so they came get acceptance from the minority who think they are right..... in the end making more money.

They once used the word "speed cameras" and changed it to "safety cameras".... why...... people understand safety and it's a stronger word within one psyche and is more widely accepted....... What good guys they are looking out for our safety!

They do the same with "SPEED" every one thinks as soon as the mention speed, they should do more to reduce speed.... so the introduce bigger fines, more cameras and a raft of other measures and people accept it , these measures only serve one purpose and that to make more money........

It's funny how they ADVERTISE they are spend more on speed cameras and other measures to curve to road toll, but for some reason the road toll increaser...... what do the do, introduce more cameras and measures.

Seeing I'm a business owner, if I spent money on a project to benefit a given outcome and it didn't work there is no way I would be spending more on that project..... I would say it failed...... but the government for some stupid reason spend more and call it safety.

Me say it is working but it has nothing to do with safety and more to do with making money.

There was a job advertised here in SA about 4 years ago, they were looking for a "business development manager"...... the funny thing was it was for the traffic infringement section". Most businesses use ""business development manager" to generate new income streams for higher profits..... what else can I say.

Olcoolone - Some parts of your rant might be true - but the statement that the road toll is increasing, is 100% pure unadulterated BS.

Australia's road toll has been decreasing for over 40 yrs and is still trending down. It's currently only ONE-SIXTH, what it was in the 1960's.

In order, the factors that have led to this road toll decline, have been -

1. Seat belts
2. Vastly improved road design (increased road and lane widths, better pavements, curve radii increased)
3. Safer design vehicles, as regards crashworthiness (collapsible steering columns, airbags, etc etc)
4. Better braking and handling (now, don't tell me you've forgotten about Holdens "go-faster" drum brakes!)
5. Improved tyre design (remember when everyone had those dreadful crossplies fitted as standard?)
6. Speed limit introductions
7. Increased Police patrolling
8. Speed cameras

Can't help but agree that speed cameras are a money-maker - but they do use a lot of the money from speed cameras to improve roads and black spots.

However, I don't think anyone wants to return to the days of unlimited speeds and un-enforced speed limits.
It's a fact of life increased traffic volumes requires increased controls.

My bugbear is the random application of arbitrary speed limits that can vary 4 times in 3 kms. It should be, that a 4 lane divided suburban road is 70kmh limit, automatically - so you know by the road design, what the limit is.

Speed limits should be painted on road surfaces at every speed limit change - because signs are so often damaged, hidden by vegetation, poorly placed - or inadequate!

The solution to speed cameras is simple - if ya don't want give away money to Govts - DON"T SPEED!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_Australia_by_year

P.S. - If you're a chronic speedster - Trapster is a good site. Google it.

As has been said, speed in itself doesn't kill. It's that sudden stop or change of direction that does the trick. From memory our astronauts are whizzing around the Earth at something like 18,000 kph and as long as they slow or accelerate at an amount sustainable and survivable by the human body it's all good. Come to a grinding halt and Buzz Lightyear and his mates are going to wind up a red stain on the inside of their spaceship. Well actually Buzz would probably be a plastic stain.
The point being that scooting along at 60, 70 or 170 kph is fine until an emergency situation crops up and you can't stop in time.
Speed in itself may or may not be the cause of injuries or deaths but it certainly gives you a much smaller window of opportunity to take evasive action and if you can't you better hope the crumple zones, air bags, seat belts and whatever other safety features that the manufacturer of you vehicle of choice fitted do a good job.

Cheers
Pop

Very interesting (and quite amusing), well put together. Thanks Rob.

Very good presentation, makes a lot of sense.

Hullo Rob
A very good video
As a senior road engineer in a previous life, I agree with most of what was presented.
I tried on a couple of occasions to raise the speed limit from 60 to 80 on the approaches to a rural town. In the end I gave up because of community resistance. They just didn't want to listen and understand that sometimes higher is safer. The pollies got nervous and the message was you are right but back off.
Ultimately, safety is only one, albeit important, part of the equation but unfortunately, in many cases safety has become a self serving and perpetuating industry with a life of its own.
I could write more but that will do for this post :-)
Cheers
Andrew

This is an interesting article just published:

Melbourne to Sydney in 6.5 hrs

Just loved this comment.................

The lead-footed journalist said Victoria's near-zero tolerance to speeding "causes cars and trucks to bunch together as one overtakes another achingly slowly, terrified of getting pinged".

The author also "marvelled at the staggering wrongheadedness of the constant roadside signs warning drivers of the dangers of fatigue when an unnecessarily low limit forces them to remain behind the wheel for longer".


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/police-slam-speed-stunt-melbourne-to-sydney-in-65-hours/story-fncynjr2-1226720458018#ixzz2f6Bm7rUI

From a previous post...

The lead-footed journalist said Victoria's near-zero tolerance to speeding "causes cars and trucks to bunch together as one overtakes another achingly slowly, terrified of getting pinged".

So..... How does increasing the speed limit change this scenario.
Surely all that would happen is they will now all be bunched up at 130 instead of 100??

So then do we complain because we will be pinged at 133 for trying to pass the inconsiderate drivers. ??

Graeme

Hi Graeme
I think there are two issues.
Some people want the speed increased on major highways.

And the zero policy on speeding needs to be relaxed.

I have noticed this my self the long stream of car bunched up, behind slower vehicles, due to the fact you can't exceed the limit to pass slower vehicles safely.

Had the same problem on the weekend, on the M1 north of Sydney.
3 lane hwy each way, 110 kph limit, and then trucks limited to 100 kph.
i was just cruising at 105 kph, but found my self doing close 120kph to get past the truck, for a few seconds, if the police were around the corner with radar/laser, i would have been done for exceeding the the limit,for a few seconds on a total trip of 500klm, just not fair!!

These days i find my self watching the speedo more than the road.
And if your doing that there is something wrong with the system.

Rob

It is even worse when you realise that as they turn 18, they can get a licence to drive and the legal right to buy alcohol on the same day!

"It is even worse when you realise that as they turn 18, they can get a licence to drive and the legal right to buy alcohol on the same day!" -

except Shaker they have a licence to drive before turning 18 - not sure what alcohol has to do with this.....

"A hundred hours in a log-book supervised by someone who may or may not be suitable,"

maybe Landy, however it's a damn sight better than the old system. Remember getting my Motorcycle licence ... got told to ride around the block .... local Policeman had written it out by the time I got back ...

Wrong, they have a learner's permit where they are accompanied by a driver with a full licence.
They receive a drivers licence after that period & as I said also the legal right to buy alcohol.
As the discussion is about speed & alcohol affects driving decisions & judgement, I think is very relevant.

No matter what the speed limit, what the road rules are, what the driver education is and what the RBT rules are there is a certain percentage of the population who are bound and determined the get the Darwin Award.

Scott & Shaker , different states have different rules IE: licence ages , and yes years ago "go round the block" was enough to get that licence , but by the same token back then we did not have the amount of vehicles on the roador the Playstations, Computers ECT that todays young driver has learnt NOTHING from when it comes down to being in charge of a REAL vehicle but in their minds think that they can drive , yes speed is killing our young drivers out of proportion of the total per year , the real blame should be placed where it belongs , not on 'speed' but on youthful bravado instilled by learning in " I can reset the drive on the Computer , no real damage " ,,,,,,,,,

Unfortunately you are right Lyn
Work undertaken some time ago for the Australian Road Research Board showed that 70% of road incidents were attributable to 8% of the population. This 8% were the criminal element in our society who were know for anti-social behaviours - DV, petty theft, pub brawls, disturbing the peace, alcohol abuse, graffiti, etc. It is no surprise really that people who behave in this way have the same approach to driving - aggressive, stuff the rules, excessive speed, road rage, etc
Unfortunately no amount of education is likely to change their behaviour.
Cheers
Andrew

Very well said Andrew. Finally, a good post from someone who actually understands the facts and issues. You are obviously not taken in by the media hype and have some background in traffic management maybe?

For those who think cameras DON'T work.

Fact: 99.92% of drivers who have their speed measured by a camera are travelling at or below the speed limit.

Graeme

Alloy, don't generally disagree with anything you said, however years ago I lost a number of my childhood friends to car accidents.

Things weren't necessarily simpler back then. Might have been less vehicles, but they weren't safer, road were worse, driver training was in the lap of the gods (or your parents), vehicle maintenance was hit & miss, and there were plenty more drunk drivers.

I watch my neices & nephews and my neighbours kids go through more thorough driver training and are driving much safer vehicles. Sure it ain't perfect, but it is improving.

Fact: 99.92% of drivers who have their speed measured by a camera are travelling at or below the speed limit.

And most of them have slowed for the camera then went back to the speed they were doing before they saw the camera, The same as seeing a Hwy Patrol you lift your foot till he's gone past then back to original speed.
Cheers Dave

Thanks Dave

You make a very good argument for the installation of lots more cameras to catch those who speed between them asthey obviously work so well.

The 99.92% also includes the "sneaky" hidden cameras that are so detested by some! Hard to explain that one?

As Andrew said earlier, very small % of the motoring population getting pinged for speeding. But that .08% just make a lot of noise when they get caught. The rest of the population just do the right thing quietly.

Graeme

Hi,
To those who participated in this discusion.
There are no speed cameras on the Peninsular Development road.
I'm back in range now.So can answer .
It just broke my heart to drive past this Jackaroo with the Police tape wrapped around it going up to the tip & then coming back past it after we'd been to the tip of Australia. The Ferry driver told us what had happened.
Just people out to enjoy a holiday just like us.
Perhaps I chose the wrong words in the half dark & haste with the battery low.
Maybe the poor bugga fell asleep as it is a long, long way, but the point is that the people are dead & this road is a road where great care needs to be taken, after all , a holiday shouldn't be a race, driving too fast on some sections of that road is bad driving, I will agree with that.
Please drive to conditions & enjoy your holiday.
If you live up there, appreciate the tourists, your loved ones & join a racing car club on a special racing circiuit.
Take care, safe travels. Ma.